Behind the scenes at Bachmann

[Markwj]

Interesting video and a lot of testing going on which makes me wonder where the issues occurred with the class 90's as I would have thought it would have been picked up at barwell. I had 6 I had to send back before they were sorted.

[maico]

12 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

Because it might be a bit more expensive to do that? This was an interesting and informative video, and I dont think anyone was under the misapprehension that Bachmann UK actually made the models in the UK.....

 

The audience for a logistics video is small indeed

[AY Mod]

3 hours ago, maico said:

Why not book a flight to Kader Industries in Dongguan and film the actual production process ? 

 

Oh yeah, we've got pots of money and bags of time. Why didn't I think of that? 

[AY Mod]

2 hours ago, Markwj said:

makes me wonder where the issues occurred with the class 90's

 

Most of that issue came with deliveries onwards after they left Barwell with couriers and postage giving advanced levels of shock testing. 

[maico]

12 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Oh yeah, we've got pots of money and bags of time. Why didn't I think of that? 

 

Have you asked them ?  The marketing departments of camera companies, for example, fly magazine staff and youtube creators all over the World for product launches. 

Kader is also a large multinational

[AY Mod]

17 minutes ago, maico said:

The marketing departments of camera companies, for example, fly magazine staff and youtube creators all over the World for product launches. 

 

I'd suggest looking at Canon and Nikon's bank balance by comparison. The furthest we get is one night in Margate, and that's exotic in the world of toy chuffers. I do wonder about people's perceptions some days, Guangdong is a long way to go for a few more 'likes'. 

[Ramrig]

20 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

, Guangdong is a long way to go for a few more 'likes'. 

 

Nah’ its just down the A50 turn left at Uttoxeter ....

[Ian Hargrave]

Had to Google “YouTube creator”. Now I know there actually is such a beast.Wonders never cease.Maybe HC Andersen knew a thing or to when he wrote The Emperor’s New Clothes.Well,I never....Book me on the next flight to Shanghai please.Now what can I create ? Havoc probably.

[AY Mod]

12 minutes ago, Ramrig said:

 

Nah’ its just down the A50 turn left at Uttoxeter ....

 

clog and Knocker to you and all.

[truffy]

12 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Had to Google “YouTube creator”. Now I know there actually is such a beast.

Crikey, whatever you do don't Google 'instagram influencer', it'll blow your mind! 

Edited September 16, 2019 by truffy
Conversion into English

[Phil Parker]

53 minutes ago, maico said:

 

Have you asked them ?  The marketing departments of camera companies, for example, fly magazine staff and youtube creators all over the World for product launches. 

Kader is also a large multinational

 

The Nikon stand at the TCT show later this month at the NEC will have cost more than Bachmann UK's marketing budget for a year.  I know people like to believe that model railway manufacturers are awash with money, but they are really small firms in a global sense and not really making vast fortunes. Even if they did fly us over, how many extra models would this sell? 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

48 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

I'd suggest looking at Canon and Nikon's bank balance by comparison. The furthest we get is one night in Margate, and that's exotic in the world of toy chuffers. I do wonder about people's perceptions some days, Guangdong is a long way to go for a few more 'likes'. 

And there's the other thing, that the tech. employed is going to be pretty similar to that featured in the Roco piece and similar from other competitors. (If any maker has got a significantly superior technique, they aren't going to casually reveal it in a vid.) The end product should (in my opinion, does) speak for itself: spend less on promotion, more on production efficiency, would be my vote.

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, maico said:

 

Have you asked them ?  The marketing departments of camera companies, for example, fly magazine staff and youtube creators all over the World for product launches. 

Kader is also a large multinational

Fly to China for product mainly sold in the UK to UK buyers.

[maico]

16 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

And there's the other thing, that the tech. employed is going to be pretty similar to that featured in the Roco piece and similar from other competitors. (If any maker has got a significantly superior technique, they aren't going to casually reveal it in a vid.) The end product should (in my opinion, does) speak for itself: spend less on promotion, more on production efficiency, would be my vote.

 

It's noticeable that the factory Piko own in China is more labour intensive and has less modern CNC machinery than Marklin -Trix and Roco. It employs 450 people

 

 

[Compound2632]

5 hours ago, maico said:

So, Bachmann UK is a box moving and QC exercise.

 

That clearly fails to take into account the knowledge of the prototype backed up by thorough research by Bachmann's UK staff, of which we have seen ample evidence - accurate models don't just spring out of 3D scan or a book of drawings. I doubt there are many folk at the Chinese end with a Webb compound as screensaver. The railway modelling clearly happens in the UK.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Compound2632

[maico]

26 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Fly to China for product mainly sold in the UK to UK buyers.

 

You make it sound like it's going to Antarctica or something !

A while back I went to Japan in connection with a photographic business  I ran as a sole trader.

The bucket shop ticket was £480 and tax deductible. I stayed with a friend in Tokyo gratis.

 

[AY Mod]

8 minutes ago, maico said:

The bucket shop ticket was £480 and tax deductible. I stayed with a friend in Tokyo gratis.

 

Good for you; I'm still not going for your entertainment.

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, Ramrig said:

 

Nah’ its just down the A50 turn left at Uttoxeter ....

Ttoxeter yourself, mate, I'm not doing it...

[adb968008]

Small matter of visa’s required for China, which means embassy visits or paying for courier service. This all takes time and money.

 

business trips overseas arent just day trips, it takes time, a china trip is a minimum of a week to be productive..., bearing in mind productive is probably 1 day.

 

We don't all have friends couches to stay on around the world, and most people tend to be more professional than that... i’m here in sunny johannesburg.. just arrived this am, 12 hour flight,  plane ticket works out at the cheaper end of the costs... I’m here to speak at a conference, which means plus hotels, dinner meetings, conference room etc... will be home saturday to head to Dubai next week and do it again, followed by yes.. Doncaster.. which will cost next to nothing by comparison.

 

for a Kader trip, your looking at a broadly similar time / expense. What benefit would it give, say over a local team in China making a video ?

 

only time for fun passed me this am looking at the UK built Electrostars here... enjoy my photos.. to give perspective its cost my employer more than a £1000 each to put them here but the revenue from the trip will be higher than most of the UK model companies annual revenues... which is why i’m buying model trains, not making them.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by adb968008

[The Johnster]

5 hours ago, maico said:

So, Bachmann UK is a box moving and QC exercise. Why not book a flight to Kader Industries in Dongguan and film the actual production process ?   Roco's factory in Romania shows the sort of thing . The German Marklin and Chinese Piko factory tours are also on the Youtube for comparison.

 

 

Barwell is a bit more than a warehouse and distribution centre with some QC thrown in for good measure; it is central to the admin and marketing of Bachmann UK and, much more importantly, R & D, which, for an RTR model to current standards is not just researching the prototype and measuring it up if an example exists but is also designing the way the model is put together to make efficient use of the manufacturing facilities and keep costs down. But to be fair to Andy and Phil, and the guys at Barwell, if a couple of guys from the modelling press turn up to do a feature on you and they are only there for a day, there is a lot more to show them on the box shifting and QC side of the operation.  You might argue, and I might agree with you, that a feature on R & D from the concept stage to production and delivery would be more interesting, but that would need months and probably years of following up on the story, and Andy and Phil have more important things to do!

 

And a YouTube feature about Kader Industries in Dongguan would not show the entire process either.  Chinese production is predicated on subcontracting, so the component parts of the model are made in small facilites, almost cottage industry, from the CAD drawing and data, scattered across one of the largest countries on Earth and brought together at Dongguan for assembly and packing.  Assembly is fascinating, but I'd be even more interested in the R & D and component manufacturing processes.  

[The Stationmaster]

29 minutes ago, maico said:

 

You make it sound like it's going to Antarctica or something !

A while back I went to Japan in connection with a photographic business  I ran as a sole trader.

The bucket shop ticket was £480 and tax deductible. I stayed with a friend in Tokyo gratis.

 

So are you suggesting that - for example - all RMweb Gold members pay an extra fiver a month, year or whatever so that Andy & Phil can go to China to  film loco bodies popping out of a moulding machine because that's the only way Warners are likely to be persuaded that a logical budget and marketing advantage exists for such a  trip.  To compare model railway marketing and product promotion budgets with the camera industry is way beyond comparing apples with oranges and I bet the same goes for the relevant magazine promotional budgets.  And in fact having seen various videos previously of model railway manufacturing the Barwell video was, I found, both original (part of the process I hadn't seen before), interesting, and informative (the level and comprehensiveness of spot checks on products arriving from the factory) - and those three things are surely what any manufacturer related video should deliver?

 

Bachmann making a 94XX or Class 117 dmu etc hardly compares with the market situation of a camera brand introducing a new SLR or bridge camera into a massive and highly competitive world wide market where grabbing a particular slice of that market will reap in millions of whatever currency you care to name but particularly US $ and various european currencies.  In that market the buyer will eb seeking a wide range of information and detail before making a purchase so sellers need to be aware of the detail and performance of the product.  We get that information from reviews and exchange of information on forums such as RMweb.

[Andy Hayter]

6 hours ago, maico said:

 Why not book a flight to Kader Industries in Dongguan and film the actual production process ?   

 

I am sure that when you and the rest of us are ready to pay around 600 notes for the most basic model, and an all bells and whistles version could be in excess of 2000 notes, there will be a great acceptance to fund rubberneck visits to China - which is the Canon Nikon comparison

Edited September 16, 2019 by Andy Hayter

[brushman47544]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

That clearly fails to take into account the knowledge of the prototype backed up by thorough research by Bachmann's UK staff, of which we have seen ample evidence - accurate models don't just spring out of 3D scan or a book of drawings. I doubt there are many folk at the Chinese end with a Webb compound as screensaver. The railway modelling clearly happens in the UK.

 

Interesting difference in the development process though is that Bachmann prepares the research package, which is then sent to China for one of Kader’s designers to prepare the CADs, whereas Hornby does its CADs in house and sends them to China. I do wonder if Bachmann’s approach makes the development period longer and whether “local knowledge” in developing CADs helps the process.

[maico]

12 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

 

Interesting difference in the development process though is that Bachmann prepares the research package, which is then sent to China for one of Kader’s designers to prepare the CADs, whereas Hornby does its CADs in house and sends them to China. I do wonder if Bachmann’s approach makes the development period longer and whether “local knowledge” in developing CADs helps the process.

 

Presumably Bachmann's process is different because it's an in-house process. As I understand it, Hornby is commissioning, amongst others, Sanda Kan which Kader acquired in 2008 but remains a separate plant.

Edited September 16, 2019 by maico

[Oldddudders]

13 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

The Nikon stand at the TCT show later this month at the NEC will have cost more than Bachmann UK's marketing budget for a year.  I know people like to believe that model railway manufacturers are awash with money, but they are really small firms in a global sense and not really making vast fortunes. Even if they did fly us over, how many extra models would this sell? 

Bachmann, unlike Canon, Nikon et al, is not facing a seismic drop in sales year on year. Market leader, by sales, Canon's Chairman recently told the Japanese business press that he expects the 19.4 million digital cameras (from all manufacturers) sold in 2018 to drop to 12 million in 2020. Some big names are going to have viability issues in holding their share of that figure. The smartphone we all carry has a lot to answer for. I believe sales in our hobby are much more stable than that, so there is considerably less imperative to offer press junkets.