Semi-Newbie seeks layout ideas, any/all helper welcome

[PioneerX]

Good morning all.

 

It's been about 10 years since I did anything in the model railway space and finally due to moving house (again) I now have a space I can work with. My previous attempt was abandoned just after track laying when my wife asked me to give up both the indoor and garage space so we could move house to a new area (happy wife, happy life). This time around I got my space back .

 

So why do I need help....well it turns out I'm a guy that can follow a plan/guide/photos but really struggles with original ideas. I even went as far as to purchase and try both SCARM and AnyRail in the hopes that my computing skills might yield something more than an basic oval, no such luck. I have various Peco plan books but nothing sets my world alight in those. I also know, that like a lot of people, I want too much given for my space.

 

Lets kick-off with a bit of a Q&A.....

 

• Dimensions
  • The space I have to work with is basically a converted garage and is 10ft by 8ft but obviously practicalities around access need to be considered 
  • 
  • Peco OO gauge. I had originally planned for N (which is what I did last time) but this is now a little too small for me to work with so OO is prefered
• Theme / desired features

  • I have no specific theme in mind but do have some elements of other layouts I enjoy and would like to consider for inclusion

    • Train(s) that can run unattended while I do something else (loops)

    • Inglenook shunting puzzle siding/yard (allowing to set people the shunting challenge), I enjoy shunting

    • More than one destination to allow for taking passengers/freight from point to point

    • Canal, as a former boat owner I would like to get a model of my old boat in there somewhere

    • Full DCC control. I’ve already designed custom DCC de/encoders (base, lighting, servo, point motors, signals, block detection etc) to run the layout with DCC++ and interfaced into JMRI

• Era / Location
  • Steam, I'm thinking 30-40s
  • I have no specific desire to replicate a prototype location, a fictional place that is for my enjoyment is what I want to do

 

Any and all help you can provide is welcome. Although I refuse to commit myself to film (youtube it out of the question), as a technical guy, I do plan to photograph and blog the build and experience to help others in mine and similar situations. I very much look forward to any advice you kind people have to offer.

 

Thanks

 

Simon (aka PioneerX)

 

[mdvle]

How comfortable are you building benchwork - do you think you can build a reliable lift out / hinged section to allow access to the centre of the layout, or are you looking at ducking under the track?  (reason, if you are comfortable building some sort of movable benchwork, can the layout then extend the full length of the space?)

 

You mention continuous running, is this a primary aim of your desired layout or can it be a end to end layout with a capability of a single track to enable continuous running?

Edited September 16, 2019 by mdvle

[Harlequin]

If you have a non-scenic fiddle yard, where the Hand-of-God intervenes to make up, turn and break down trains, that could be classed as one of the destinations.

 

If that was acceptable then you'd only need to model one destination on scene, which might simplify things and allow a bit more space for the on scene station.

 

[PioneerX]

@mdvle, I'm comfortable doing benchwork but a little concerned about the track jointing as reliability of removable baseboard joints was one of my big issues the first time around. I do also have to consider that I need some space to actually do the modelling itself (small table) although a lot of stuff will be stored under layout or on shelves. Regarding the end to end, this is absolutely possible since everything will be under JMRI control and the continuous nature can be scripted/scheduled rather than a continuous loop of track. Ultimately I like the trains to be running in the background while I'm making/painting the latest addition etc.

 

@Harlequin, A fiddle yard would be ideal and certainly could be a destination just throught I had a lot inthe layout already and fitting a fiddle yard seemed even more of a step beyond 

 

 

[mdvle]

4 minutes ago, PioneerX said:

I do also have to consider that I need some space to actually do the modelling itself (small table) although a lot of stuff will be stored under layout or on shelves.

 

That can depend on what height you expect the layout to be (thus whether you wish to operate the layout sitting down or standing up).  If the layout it high enough then the modelling area could easily fit underneath, but if you want the layout lower then the first thing you need to decide is how much space you need for your work area and subtract that from the available space.

[chuffinghell]

18 minutes ago, PioneerX said:

.........a little concerned about the track jointing as reliability of removable baseboard joints was one of my big issues the first time around

 

 

 

Were the issues track alignment or electrical continuity problems

 

Chris

[PioneerX]

I'm happy at standing height for the layout (4ft ish) but anything more than that is not practical for me. The reason I set the max size as the area in front of the door as there is actually enough space beside for a reasonable modelling table with the seat behind the door when in use. Alternatively I also played with an L shape since it can be end-to-end in design due to the computer control element. I also remembered my 3D printer had to live somewhere (although in hindsight it could go under the layout as it;s not used excessively.

 

 

[PioneerX]

Just now, chuffinghell said:

 

Were the issues track alignment or electrical continuity problems

 

Chris

 Hi Chris, alignment was my problem.....most electric/electronic problems I can solve.....derailment of N gauge trains was frustrating though.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Layout height is a significant factor. If you are sufficiently fit a flexible a 'duck under access' should be possible; but I can tell you this, a duck under with the layout four feet above floor level is a lot less tiresome than three feet. At four feet you might contemplate slinging the continuous run through the 'other' area and across the doorway: Also, rehanging the door so that it hinges outwards eliminates any need for a lift out section. (Every layout should have a continuous run available if possible, even if only for test running and the like.)

[chuffinghell]

17 minutes ago, PioneerX said:

 Hi Chris, alignment was my problem.....most electric/electronic problems I can solve.....derailment of N gauge trains was frustrating though.

 

Pattern makers dowels for baseboard alignment are good

 

Most of the more experienced members on here solder the rails to copperclad sleepers at the joints or solder tubes on the outside of each rail and insert a pin to maintain the alignment..........I haven't done either but that is because

 

a) I haven't' got a clue what I'm doing

b) my layout won't be dismantled too often

and

c) I'm a Rebel..........without a clue

 

If electrical problem were the issue then I would have recommend adding dropper wires to each individual length of track as fishplates can be unreliable but as its not an issue I don't need to say anything 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by chuffinghell
Correction of my appalling spelling

[PioneerX]

9 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

......If you are sufficiently fit a flexible a 'duck under access' should be possible......

 

This is why I had not really considered it. I have a smashed right knee thanks to two car accidents that affected the same knee so getting down it not such a easy thing for me. Anywhere between 3 and 4 ft is a nice working height for me.

[Harlequin]

Baseboard joints are a well understood issue with lots of good solutions so I wouldn't worry about alignment of lifting/removable sections too much.

 

Having said that, the suggestion that others have made about a high-level fixed round-the-outside baseboard has a number of plus points:

• No need for any removable section, no aligment issues. Easy to duck under.
• Room for workspace below.
• Get a more realistic eye-level for viewing the model. This technique is used by many modellers.

The high level idea does mean that you need something to stand on to access the back, though. (And BTW, 1m deep baseboards will make it diffidult to access the back without damaging scenery at the front, especially in the corner.)

 

By high-level I mean baseboard surface at, say, 1300mm. (Edit: or higher!)

 

So the basic outline might be a double track circuit, fiddle yard along one long wall, simple non-scenic section crossing the doorway, station scene along the other long wall with a goods yard inside and finally a gentle scenic curve around the far end...???? Workspace, equipment and storage below.

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Harlequin

[PioneerX]

25 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

By high-level I mean baseboard surface at, say, 1300mm.

 

So the basic outline might be a double track circuit, fiddle yard along one long wall, simple non-scenic section crossing the doorway, station scene along the other long wall with a goods yard inside and finally a gentle scenic curve around the far end...???? Workspace, equipment and storage below.

 

 

I love this as an idea, unfortunately the door cant be hung the other way since it would open into the kitchen and hit the island (I have asked, and wifey wont let me put the railway on the island ). I also take you point about 1m baseboards (especially consider I have an 'overhang' of my own). Something more like this seems appropriate......

 

 

....if I put my reservations to one side then a lift out section by the door means I could have a loop and consider the full 4m of the room but then it would have to be at height to fit working space underneath. Guess I need to do some measuring to see if 1.3m high base board would give me enough space below, if so then......

 

 

...without a loop....

 

 

....with removable section for door. I think in this case it would have a scenic break across the entire back section to make the rear wall and the removable section non-scenic and therefore easier to handle

 

[chuffinghell]

What about a bi-fold or sliding door?

Edited September 16, 2019 by chuffinghell

[PioneerX]

6 minutes ago, chuffinghell said:

What about a bi-fold door?

 

I think I need to consider the door as a no go area since my wife will not be happy if I change the doors (spent a long time choosing them). It's looking more likely that because of the door placement an end-to-end layout is the most practical since I dont think I can loopback due to the minimum radius.

[chuffinghell]

4 minutes ago, PioneerX said:

 

I think I need to consider the door as a no go area since my wife will not be happy if I change the doors (spent a long time choosing them). It's looking more likely that because of the door placement an end-to-end layout is the most practical since I dont think I can loopback due to the minimum radius.

 

That's fair enough, it's a good job I didn't go with my original thought as I can't imagine a galvanised roller shutter door would have been acceptable either 

 

Personally I would steer clear of the door opening but only because I'd be concerned about my better half trying to open the door whilst the lift out section was in place........plus it would also hamper her bringing me a cup of tea whilst I'm playing working 

[Harlequin]

11 minutes ago, PioneerX said:

 

I think I need to consider the door as a no go area since my wife will not be happy if I change the doors (spent a long time choosing them). It's looking more likely that because of the door placement an end-to-end layout is the most practical since I dont think I can loopback due to the minimum radius.

 

I'm sure a full room circuit can be done with a lifting section - even with the inward opening door. I'll draw something after work - including tea-transfer point.

 

[PioneerX]

2 minutes ago, chuffinghell said:

 

That's fair enough, it's a good job I didn't go with my original thought as I can't imagine a galvanised roller shutter door would have been acceptable either 

 

Personally I would steer clear of the door opening but only because I'd be concerned about my better half trying to open the door whilst the lift out section was in place........plus it would also hamper her bringing me a cup of tea whilst I'm playing working 

 

Agreed.....on all counts 

[PioneerX]

1 minute ago, Harlequin said:

 

I'm sure a full room circuit can be done with a lifting section - even with the inward opening door. I'll draw something after work - including tea-transfer point.

 

 

Thanks @Harlequin..... and thanks everyone. I have achieved more 'talking' things through here in 3 hours than I did in 2 months on my own. It is very much appreciated.

[Harlequin]

Here's a possible solution:

 

• The lifting flap allows the door to open enough to reach the lifting handle from the outside. It's crucial that the door handle is below the lifting flap!
• I know that most of the time when someone's in the room they would be opening the flap from the inside and leaving it open but it's just sensible that it can be lifted from the outside in case of emergency!
• The flap is angled to maximise the track length on the scenic board. This could be optmised further.
• The hinges at one end and stop blocks at the other should maintain flap alignment even of the door is bashed into it.
• I made one of the long boards (the fiddle yard) thinner so that there's more space in the operating well.
• The fillet on the right allows wider curving track (but makes that corner difficult to reach).
• The grid is 305mm * 305mm (metric foot squares).
• The guideline radii just give an idea of how track work could fit. They are 610mm inner radius (a good minimum radius for OO) and +51mm standard Peco spacing to the outer.

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Harlequin

[Zomboid]

You didn't include a station on your list of requirements. That's fine - obviously if building one will give you pleasure then include it, but if you would sooner shunt wagons around in an industrial setting then remember that there is no rule of model railways that says you have to have a passenger station. The vast, vast majority of every railway system in the world is the bit between stations, and as far as industrial operating goes it'll just occupy space whilst only really adding a place for some trains to pause.

 

(End to end layouts without a station area a bit harder to do if you want to use passenger stock, unless you have 2 yards using quite a lot of space).

 

I'm not saying that stations are bad, far from it. Just that you don't *have* to have one if you have other things that you want more.

[chuffinghell]

Good to see @Harlequin has incorporated the mug shelf and enough room for a brew to be passed safely through the sightly open door.

 

Better than my thoughts of a cat flat at baseboard level

[Zomboid]

Is a kettle & box of tea bags in the layout room a step too far?

[Aire Head]

13 hours ago, Zomboid said:

Is a kettle & box of tea bags in the layout room a step too far?

Your a madman!

 

But yes, could even have a fridge under one of the baseboards for milk and perhaps something a little stronger 

[PioneerX]

@Harlequin, that's a great solution.....showed it to the wife and it gained tentative approval with a caveat that all the existing storage goes under the boards. Your suggested height of 1300mm is a little too high for me (I'm short) but 1100-1200mm should be fine. At this height all my existing shelving does fit under the layout with enough room to do wiring and point motor work. My modelling station and 3Dprinter would need to be put on wheels and moved into the operating well when in use, but that's not  big sacrifice to get the extra benchwork in.

 

@Zomboid, your right there is no station as such in the desired feature list, this was kinda implied in 'More than one destination to allow for taking passengers/freight from point to point', essentially providing operating variety. 

 

I guess now I have to put that board design into AnyRail/SCARM and work out how I get my desired feature set onto those boards