SE&CR L-Class, 1914, from a Tri-ang L1

[hayfield]

Dana

 

The kit is a L rather than a L1, compared to the price for a new one its quite a saving when you take into consideration the additional cost of the wheels, axles and crank pins, but I am used to paying a lot less, but as I said it was funded by recycling a lot of spares I built up over the years and would never get round to using. Today another Southeastern Finecast P class loco arrived, £39 + postage I now need to swat up on the SECR livery, I now have some brown paint for the chassis, which now are very nice etched ones with EM gauge spacers as well as 00 gauge ones. The lining may be an issue, on the other hand a challenge worth having a go at 

 

 

[Dana Ashdown]

Hello Hayfield.

 

The Covid-19 shutdown has affected my regular wi-fi connection, so I'm just trying to catch up sitting here in the supermarket parking lot.

 

The L and P gives you some variety, but the Wainwright livery is a challenge, which is why I'm glad I only have to do the more basic 1914 version. My impression is that the Southeastern Finecast kits are better, so definitely another excellent buy on your part.

 

I went out to get some more Humbrol brunswick green on Wednesday and managed to pick up some gold Woodland Scenics R.R. Roman gold letter transfers (the rub-on kind like Lettraset) and some Model-Master yellow stripes (both on clearance), which should be fine for the simplified Maunsell livery of 1914. The gold letters are not shaded, but if necessary I could use a black Mars drawing pen to add it.

 

I'm now working on the tender. It won't be 100% accurate, but it should pass casual inspection.

 

Dana

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Dana Ashdown said:

Hello Hayfield.

 

The Covid-19 shutdown has affected my regular wi-fi connection, so I'm just trying to catch up sitting here in the supermarket parking lot.

 

The L and P gives you some variety, but the Wainwright livery is a challenge, which is why I'm glad I only have to do the more basic 1914 version. My impression is that the Southeastern Finecast kits are better, so definitely another excellent buy on your part.

 

I went out to get some more Humbrol brunswick green on Wednesday and managed to pick up some gold Woodland Scenics R.R. Roman gold letter transfers (the rub-on kind like Lettraset) and some Model-Master yellow stripes (both on clearance), which should be fine for the simplified Maunsell livery of 1914. The gold letters are not shaded, but if necessary I could use a black Mars drawing pen to add it.

 

I'm now working on the tender. It won't be 100% accurate, but it should pass casual inspection.

 

Dana

 

 

I thought Brunswick Green was GWR but I guess paint hues change over time as the sun bleaches it and dirt and grime has its effect. I am very lucky as my local model shop stocks Phoenix paints and can order less popular colours

[Caley Jim]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

...... I am very lucky as my local model shop stocks Phoenix paints and can order less popular colours

You very lucky to have a local model shop.  Nearest one to me is Harburn Hobbies in Edinburgh, an hour+ bus to the city centre, then a 15 minute walk from there.  I wouldn't dream of taking the car there!  You have to see your bank manager before you can afford to park in Auld Reekie!!

 

Jim

[Regularity]

6 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

You have to see your bank manager before you can afford to park in Auld Reekie!

Still 50p is it, Jim? 

[Caley Jim]

7 hours ago, Regularity said:

Still 50p is it, Jim? 

That's for the first 30 seconds! 

 

Jim 

[Dana Ashdown]

On 21/03/2020 at 11:41, hayfield said:

I thought Brunswick Green was GWR but I guess paint hues change over time as the sun bleaches it and dirt and grime has its effect. I am very lucky as my local model shop stocks Phoenix paints and can order less popular colours

So far as I know, the SE&CR used brunswick green, whereas the GWR used middle chrome green (the shade used got somewhat lighter as time went by). I notice that the Bachmann C Class, Hornby H Class and Terrier, and Hatton's P Class, have different shades of green. Hornby and Hatton's are similar, and also darker than Bachmann's. I would say that Humbrol's brunswick green is somewhere in-between.

 

I think Gary "Bluelightening's" is using Phoenix SE&CR brunswick green for his D Class, and it looks close to the Humbrol.

[hayfield]

I just buy the appropriate Phoenix paints colour, just seem to recall the days prior to Phoenix that Humbrol called its GWR green Brunswick green,

 

Phoenix have 3 shades for the GWR depending on era so I guess there is a chance one is close if not the same as SECR

[Dana Ashdown]

The conversion of my Tri-ang SR L1 Class into an SE&CR L Class is progressing. Here is a shot of the engine and tender.

 

 

 I've adapted the tender, which was, I think, an LMS type. Its not perfect, but it will do for now. The main problem is that the chassis adds about 9 inches to the height, partly because I've fitted 14mm spoked wheels. The original L Class tenders had even larger wheels. 

 

 

Still more yet to do.

 

Dana

[Dana Ashdown]

11 minutes ago, hayfield said:

I just buy the appropriate Phoenix paints colour, just seem to recall the days prior to Phoenix that Humbrol called its GWR green Brunswick green,

 

Phoenix have 3 shades for the GWR depending on era so I guess there is a chance one is close if not the same as SECR

My wifi link cut out before I could post a reply!

 

What I was going to say was that we can't buy Phoenix paints in Canada anymore. The ones I do have came from a clearance (mostly just odds and ends that I thought could be useful). Sadly, my pot of GWR Coach Lake is used up; the Humbrol acrylic crimson lake I have is not as rich as the Phoenix, so anything further for the 1912-1914 period will be in 1908-1912 brown. I haven't opened the pot of Humbrol acrylic GWR green, but it may be fine for 1920s onward.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Dana Ashdown
Missing text.

[Lacathedrale]

"Wainwright and his Locomotives" by K. Marx has a picture of the L in works grey after assembly, which must have been in 1914?

[Dana Ashdown]

On 30/03/2020 at 05:29, Lacathedrale said:

"Wainwright and his Locomotives" by K. Marx has a picture of the L in works grey after assembly, which must have been in 1914?

I don't have the book, but you're probably right. The photos posted earlier are mostly in works grey, though I notice that the lining differs between them.

[Dana Ashdown]

Hello everyone!

 

Before I forget everything, I thought I should post some notes about how I’ve been altering a Tri-ang L1 into an SE&CR L Class. With this comes the new thread title.

 

First off, the victim. Tri-ang introduced the Southern Railway L1 Class to its line-up in 1960, issuing it in lined British Railways green until 1968. Two versions were offered: R.350 (without smoke) and R.350S (with smoke). The only outward difference between the two is that the non-smoking version has the screw attaching the body to the chassis passing through the chimney. With R.350S, the screw is in the footplate in front of the smokebox.

 

My L1 is the non-smoking version, so the screw is, for all intents and purposes, invisible. It has a split steel chassis, which was common to early Tri-ang engines, but it is possible that later engines had a die-cast chassis.

 

The L1 was Tri-ang’s first 4-4-0, so the general dimensions of the engine itself seem to be reasonably faithful to the 1926 prototype, being in essence an SE&CR’s L Class design with Maunsell’s revisions as seen on the D1 and E1 class rebuilds.

 

The real L1 Class featured the same tender that Maunsell designed for his N Class 2-6-0. Rather than make a new one, Tri-ang recycled the tender sold with their R.251 British Railways Class 3F 0-6-0 from 1958. Thus, Tri-ang’s L1 sports an L.M.S. Fowler tender!

 

Hornby re-issued R.350 in 1971 in lined Southern olive green. The model was then re-released in 1973 as R.450, posing as an L.M.S. Fowler Class 2P in black livery lined with red (at least the tender is more appropriate for this one). In both cases, the screw fixing the body to the chassis is in the footplate in front of the smokebox.

 

This is how it looked when I first bought it. The original Tri-ang couplers had been removed by a previous owner, with a Hornby-Doublo coupler substituting on the tender. The plastic tender wheels had been changed for 12mm steel disc wheels, with sleeve brass bearings. There was some minor damage to the lower left side of the tender (probably when the wheels were replaced), but otherwise, the general condition of the engine and tender were good.

 

 

Whilst considering how to proceed with the modifications, I decided to replace the bogie wheels with 10-spoke 14mm wheels, which are about the right size. These not only look better, but they don’t seem to cause any clearance issues. Afterwards, I cut off the block on the bogie where the coupler attached, as it protruded beyond the buffer beam. I ground and filed the edge smooth, so when painted black it is out of sight.

 

About the first thing I did to the body was remove the moulded hand rails and piping from the engine. Most of the work was done with a knife using paring cuts, and finished with small files. Stopping cuts made along the rails with a razor saw allowed a little more control over their removal.

 

The real challenge in converting the L1 to an L is forming the splashers. What I hadn’t realised at first was that the front of Maunsell's cab was too far back to get the proper sweep. Wainwright solved it earlier by moving the cab front forward, which is apparent when you study the pictures and the livery diagram posted earlier in the thread. Another thing is that the cab sides, footplate and footsteps are more or less in the same plane. This gave me an idea. I could use the livery diagram not just as a guide, but as a template to make new one-piece sides.

 

To do this, I first measured the length of the Tri-ang footplate. Then I cut the image from the livery diagram and pasted it into my word processing programme. This allowed me to use the page rulers to adjust the image size to match the actual body length. This done, I printed out the scaled image and checked it for size. It worked! If printed at 100%, the PDFs below should be to scale.

 

L Class Profile - Engine (Painting Diagram).pdf

 

L Class - Tender Profile (Painting Diagram).pdf

 

Create the template from the drawing by cutting out the cab and splasher sides, footplate and steps as one piece.

 

 

Use the template to trace the lines onto a sheet of .010” plastic, then cut out with scissors. A knife will help to clean up any part missed by the scissors. You need two of these, one per side.

 

Next, I filed the cab sides and footplate flush, the idea being to remove the lip along the footplate and any projecting detail on the cab. This was done with large files. The whistle, steps and buffer beam were also cut off. (The whistle and front steps could be reused if you wanted, otherwise put them aside for future projects.) While you’re at it, file the cab roof smooth and cut off the extension at the rear.

 

With your template or plastic side, compare the position of the front of the existing Maunsell cab to the Wainwright cab. You will see that the latter is a few millimetres ahead of the former, so this is how much has to be removed.

 

Using a very fine razor saw, make two vertical cuts in the firebox to the depth of the side cab windows. One vertical cut should be made just ahead of the cab front, and the other vertical cut a few millimetres beyond that. Remember to measure first — better to remove too little at this stage than too much.

 

Now make a horizontal cut along the cab just below the window. This should clear the the top of the inside splashers. Continue the cut into the firebox. My fine razor saw wasn’t deep enough to complete the cut, so I finished it with a larger saw. The top of the cab should now be free.

 

 

Sliding the top of the cab forward to join the firebox will put the cab front in the correct position. You may need to adjust the fit around the firebox with files. By using a very fine razor saw, only a minor amount of cab height is lost (this part should not be filed), which will largely be made up later when a new roof is added. The space created by the overhang can be filled with some scrap plastic after the cab top is glued in place.

 

 

At this point, I drilled all the holes in the boiler and smokebox for handrail knobs, clack valves, door handle and so on, to avoid damaging anything later.

 

Before the new sides can be glue onto the body, you need to make backer plates for the splashers. With the template, draw the outline of the splashers onto .060” plastic sheet. Cut these out with a fret saw and finish with files. Next, you have to create a recess in the footplate equal to the thickness of the .060” plastic. Start by making stopping cuts with a razor saw next to the cab and near the front of the forward splasher, then finish with files. Adjust the backer plates to fit into the space.

 

I found that creating a notch on the fore part of the backer plates helps support the plate on the footplate. If you do this, make the recess a little shorter. Also, create a half-moon clearance for the crank. Note that the forward splasher must align with the splasher moulded into the body, and the plates must also be flush with the cab sides and footplate edges.

 

The pictures below show the backer plates, along with the filler piece for the lower cab front and the new buffer beam, in place.

 

 

 

Before going further, check that the sides are flush and, if necessary, dress them with a file.

 

The thin sides can now be fixed into place. Be careful to avoid using too much glue, as I found that it can make the thin plastic pucker. If it does, a little filler will fix it.

 

 

 

After new sides have dried, you can carefully refine the shape with a knife and files.

 

The splashers are completed with body filler worked between the gaps. Two or three layers, allowing for drying in between applications, are best. These can be shaped and smoothed with a knife and small files. At this point they should look something like the next two pictures.

 

 

 

I fitted the vertical handrails to the rear of the cab at this time because they stiffen the roof supports and help support roof. To finish the transformation, fit the cab roof. This is cut from the .010” plastic sheet. If you’re not certain of the exact size, use a paper pattern.

 

The prototype photographs show a slight lip along the top of the footplate. I tried to replicate this by gluing on some thin plastic rod left over from wagon kits. Plastic rod was also used to trim around the cab opening and the on the front and back edges of the roof.

 

Some photos also suggest a flat beading strip following along the upper edge of the splashers. I wasn’t sure about adding it, but thought it would make the lining easier to do. I cut the strip from the .010” plastic sheet, using another template made from the livery diagram. Gluing it in place is rather fiddly (not to mention sticky), but it seems to have works out, though it isn’t quite symmetrical — M. Poirot would not be amused!

 

 

The treads for the steps are made from Evergreen 1/8” Channel (No.264), with one side cut off — this is how I make footboards for carriages. The steps on the original engines canted inwards below the footplate skirt. It is possible to replicate this by carefully bending the thin plastic to shape. For it to hold its shape, a wire or plastic former may need gluing to the back.

 

That completes the major body work on the engine.

[Dana Ashdown]

The Tri-ang tender presents another problem. Its entirely wrong for an L1, and not much better for an L.

 

 

 

So far as I know, the only L Class tenders available come with the DJH L Class kit, but these apparently have some issues with them. You could perhaps adapt an SEF E Class tender, or a GBL C Class tender, but there would be compromises because the L Class tender was somewhat larger (amongst other things). Alternatively, you could build one from scratch, or just rebuild the Tri-ang tender.

 

In the spirit of economy, I decided to rebuild the Tri-ang tender. Notwithstanding its flaws, the Tri-ang tender is actually close to the right size for the L Class. Removing the moulded coal from the tender reveals a screw at the bottom. Unscrew this to separate the tender tank from the chassis.

 

The chassis is about a scale foot too short, but is easily lengthened by gluing extensions to the front and rear (I made mine from .060” plastic sheet). The rear extension takes the form of a new buffer beam. The wheelbase is also a foot too short; I considered replacing the side frames to fix it, but concluded that it wasn’t worth the effort (at least not at this time). Instead, I enlarged the arched openings between the wheels to a size closer in shape to an L Class tender. This was easily done with a 6-inch tapered half-round file, and is a major improvement in the look of the chassis.

 

I replaced the wheels with 10-spoke 14mm wheels, with top hat bearings glued into the existing axle holes. Technically, the wheels should be larger (the prototype had 4-foot wheels), but then the tender would sit a bit too high. The axle boxes were given covers to roughly match the prototype, and new square spring dampers were fashioned from the 060” plastic sheet. Nothing fancy, but they should serve.

 

The end steps and side sheets/valances to the chassis were cut out of the .010” sheet in the same way I did for the engine, tracing them with a template and cutting them out with scissors. At first, I was going to completely remove the moulded steps on the chassis. But after comparing them with the new sides realised that they could stay in place, so long as they were shortened. I sawed a few millimetres off the bottom of the steps and used files to smooth them off; and shape the ends of the frames to a more appropriate contour.

 

Before gluing the new sides to the chassis, you have to file the top edge of the chassis until it is slightly narrower than the tender tank (when the sides are applied, they should be flush with the tender tank). This is basically the same process as filing back the footplate on the engine. Because the tender steps are canted inwards, you should file the moulded steps to match — this doesn’t need to be exact.

 

The sides of the tender chassis can now be glued in place. You will probably need to trim them slightly with a knife and files. Finally, apply a beading strip from thin plastic rod along the top edge to match the engine footplate, and attach the treads to the steps.

 

The tender tank is perhaps a little too wide, but is about the right length and height. The fenders do need to be removed; as do the water filler lid and dome, the cross pieces between the fenders; and the raised top of the front of the tender tank. Effectively, level the top of the tender but try not to separate the interior of the coal bunker from the tank body (otherwise, you won’t be able the screw the tender tank back onto the chassis). You may find that the front of the bin will detach, but this can be glued back.

 

The tank sides and rear should now be filed flat, which will remove the rivets and moulded handles. On Wainwright tenders for the C, D and E classes, there were separate sheets extending forward from the front of the tank proper, but on L Class tenders these were integral. Nevertheless, you still have to reduce the height of the extension. (I probably haven’t explained this very well, but studying the photographs will show what I mean.) I cut mine a bit lower so I can attach the handle rail easier.

 

I made the flared sheets along the top edge of the tank from 7/32” Evergreen Tube (No.227) that was sawed apart. For some reason, the cuts seemed to go in a bit of a spiral, so you need to watch out. Trying to cut the tube with cutters was actually worse, so use a razor saw. I might have tried the next smaller size tube, but the shop was out of stock, but I think the 7/32” still matches the drawing quite well. When fitting the flared sheets, cut them to length by measuring the top edge, but remember that you must match the bottom of the flare to the respective sides and rear. Do the rear first and use a file to make the corner mitres. Then do the sides. This is like making a picture frame, and with a little care you can make a neat joint. Lastly, the curve at the forward end of the side sheets should be made with a file (making the side sheets a little longer than required will allow you to make adjustments). These can now be glued edge to edge to the top of the tender tank.

 

When the glue has set, you can fit the shallow coal fender that runs along each side. I made mine from the tops of the original fenders from the tender. At this point the tender should look something like this (hopefully better!):

 

 

 

(Note that I haven’t applied the beading strip at the top of the chassis in these pictures.)

 

Now make the front and rear bulkheads for the coal bunker. These have straight top edges that are at the same level as the top of the shallow coal fenders. I made mine from the 060” plastic for strength, but I bevelled the top edge to make it appear thiner. Contour the bulkhead ends to the flared sides with a round or oval file. The top of the tender behind the rear bulkhead needs a new top sheet and water filler. A sheet also needs to be fitted in front of the forward bulkhead. (These can be fitted before or after the bulkheads.)

 

 

While you’re at it, cut a piece of thick plastic to cover the coal space, but leave it loose in order to give access to the screw that holds the tank to the chassis. It will be hidden once coal has been glued to it.

 

 

That completes the major bodywork on the tender. Its not a perfect replica, but I think it manages to look the part.

[Edwardian]

19 minutes ago, Dana Ashdown said:

The Tri-ang tender presents another problem. Its entirely wrong for an L1, and not much better for an L.

 

 

 

Hardly surprising, even I can tell it's not L-shaped.

 

Great conversion project.  keep up the good work!

[Lacathedrale]

L is definitely one of my favourite 4-4-0's, only nipped at the post by the Schools - but you can't argue it's alost more elegant!

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said:

 only nipped at the post by the Schools - but you can't argue it's alost more elegant!

 

Yes, I remember being nipped at the post at school.  I still bear the scars in fact. Of course, these days that sort of thing has been banned ...

 

Still, I think I grew up to be a lot more elegant as a result.

[Londontram]

I just love this type of modeling I could take as much of this as you can shovel at me, this is absolutely terrific keep the reports coming

  Steve

[Dana Ashdown]

By way of a brief update, I primed parts of the engine and tender bodies which took away some of that loud whiteness of the plastic. On the tender chassis it made a great improvement. I then gave into temptation and painted the side frames which was even better!

 

I was planning to fit the tender with an NEM coupler, but I found a Tri-ang coupler in a parts drawer and attached it for now. Finally, I was able to test the pulling power of the engine on a short piece of test track. It was surprisingly good — it walked away with 18 wagons with no effort. (And yes, it did bring them back!) I'm tempted to leave the Tri-ang coupler on, since I may eventually do some Tri-ang clerestory conversions it.

 

One problem that the test did show was that one of the tender wheels was wobbly. It was my fault, because I tried to put it on one of the Tri-ang bogie axles earlier. Luckily, I had a spare pair of Gibson wheels — the Gibson tyres are thicker, but it won't show.

 

One of these days I'll get the handrails and other bits fitted so I can get the paintwork done.

[hayfield]

Dana

 

Surprising what a bit of primer does, I have converted a K's Adams Radial tank someone else built to EM gauge, it was black with BR totem and numbering. The transfers quickly came off and I primed it in readiness to paint it green. Well it not only showed up some joins which I have now filled but also a blob on the boiler which did not notice in black

[Dana Ashdown]

The tender body has been finished and primed, and the outside frames of the tender chassis have received a coat of red oxide. A few places on the body will need some attention before it can be painted, but all in all I think its a reasonable facsimile of an L Class tender… in an impressionistic sort of way, that is!

 

The pictures show the current state of things. (The bodies are not screwed to the chassis, and the tender doesn't have the centre wheels fitted.)

 

 

 

 

[LNWR18901910]

On 13/05/2020 at 18:12, Dana Ashdown said:

The tender body has been finished and primed, and the outside frames of the tender chassis have received a coat of red oxide. A few places on the body will need some attention before it can be painted, but all in all I think its a reasonable facsimile of an L Class tender… in an impressionistic sort of way, that is!

 

The pictures show the current state of things. (The bodies are not screwed to the chassis, and the tender doesn't have the centre wheels fitted.)

 

 

 

 

That's champion, that!

[Dana Ashdown]

On 16/05/2020 at 21:26, LNWR18901910 said:

That's champion, that!

Thank's LNWR18901910, and everyone else!

 

I've actually been able to fill in the gaps that you can see in the left side view, so painting has started.

 

Unfortunately, now I'm dealing with a family medical emergency so progress will be even slower (if that's possible). I have got the black parts of the tender body done, so if I can get in the mood I'll paint it green, and get the springs and axle boxes painted black, and the buffer beam red. Otherwise, I think the tender bodywork is done, save for a coal load.

 

Dana

Edited May 21, 2020 by Dana Ashdown

[Blandford1969]

What a great build. Thanks for sharing it with us

[Dana Ashdown]

Work has finally resumed on the L-Class!

 

I’ve fitted the handrails, clack valves, piping and other bits, but still a couple of things to add, though. Once thats done, I’ll clean up the rough edges (of which there are many) and the glue excess, then prime it.

 

It won’t win any awards, but from normal viewing distances it actually doesn’t look too bad. (Lesson, never photograph anything your building with a digital camera!) At least I managed to unglue my fingers from the body.

 

By the way, the tender was painted last year with a new tin of Humbrol Brunswick Green. The paint was rather anaemic, with too much solvent and not enough pigment, and so it came out a rather bright green. I’m hoping my ancient tin hasn’t dried up.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Dana Ashdown