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GMRC Series 2 - Episode 3 - 'Best of British'


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I've been deliberately avoiding this thread until now because I wasn't home in time to watch it last night, and I've only just had time to sit down and catch up with the recording!

 

But, anyway, I agree with the consensus that the best layout won. I particularly liked the fact that there were, as Steve Flint put it, some traditional modelmaking skills right at the heart of their layout. And I particularly liked the fact that they'd made a conscious decision to choose appropriate locos and rolling stock - as I said in comments on previous episodes, some of the layouts have tended to have a bit of a train set style "anything will do" approach to operating, but on this one everything on the tracks was chosen to fit the theme.

 

Having said that, I thought the Loco Ladies' scenic modelling was wonderful to look at. Like Kathy, I didn't really get the crochet trees. But the seaside theme was really well put together. And I really liked some of the ideas on the Cambrian Coasters' layout, even if it was let down somewhat by poor running.

 

Now that we've seen three of the five initial heats, I also think we've seen one of the likely finalists this week, and they'll also be one of the favourites to win it. Assuming, that is, they can put as much efffort into their prebuilds for the semi-final and final as they did for this week's layout.

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Going off on a slightly different tangent, I think one of the things we've learned from the winning layouts so far is that settrack is the way to go, and ideally on foam underlay. Now, to us, that does tend to scream "train set". But with the emphasis on functionality, that's the flying start you need. And you can disguise the foam underlay with a sprinkling of loose ballast without needing to rely on the loose ballast to give shape, which, as we've seen on previous episodes, is timeconsuming and risks problems with stray particles causing derailments. To paraphrase the old saying, when it comes to trackwork it's a case of: quick, reliable, realistic - pick any two from three. And the first two are the ones that matter more in this context.

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4 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

I think the best layout won and generally agreed with the order of judging. Because the competition inevitably shows what people can achieve in a mad dash 24-30 hour scramble it favours speed over modelling quality so it was good to see some very fine modelling in the pre-builds.

I didn't feel that quite so much imagination was evident this week except in the "scratch build challenge" where there was some clever lateral thinking and again I think the best won. I wasn't sure whether the winning layout was intended to be a model of a sort of Best of Britain's Railways theme park with full size trains but if they were, that was a clever idea.

 

What I find slightly bizarre with this format is that it's clear that we're not seeing the best of railway modelling, not even in what the team members are undoubtedly capable of, simply because that takes scores if not hundreds of hours and there are probably more modelling hours in one team's pre-builds than in what all three have in a heat. That does make this different from other skills based competitions from Bake-Off and Master Chef to One Man and His Dog which, though under time pressure, are far closer to what completing the task would take under normal conditions.

That's not a criticism, I can't think of a format that would work better in terms of the drama and incident that a TV competition needs. You could set teams the task and follow them episodically over a much longer period and there have been series that did that (though not about modelling)   but though that would be a better reflection of their real abilities I don't think it would work so well as a series. What is good is that we get to see a lot or ordinary modellers and that does show  that it's an accessible hobby.

I see the point of the 10x5 layout as a size that more people are familiar with as 'household' layout - a train set on a board with some scenic - so I get why the series starts with that. They want people to go away thinking "That looks fun. I could do that". It is a challenge to see what people are capable of under pressure of constraint and outside their comfort zone (hence also the hated SB challenge), and it makes participation more accessible to less experienced amateur teams on a more equal footing, and more scope for humour and light-heartedness.

It would be nice if, in some of the episodes, the layout challenge were something smaller - perhaps a shunting puzzle, micro-layout or terminus-FY size. As well as bringing some variation to the rather monotonous theme this would give scope for higher quality modelling, given the same team size within the same time frame, and therefore widen the challenge. I think this would work well as a semi-final stage and allow the better modellers a chance to show their metal.

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1 hour ago, MarkSG said:

Assuming, that is, they can put as much efffort into their prebuilds for the semi-final and final as they did for this week's layout.

Ah but the rules only allow for pre-building on Heat layouts... 

(all teams get a full set of rules for all stages on the competition, whether they progress through the competition or not, so I'm not giving anything away there. The arrangements for the semi-final and final were different so will be interesting to see how the winning Heat teams get on in those rounds)

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8 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Another LWMRS layout which features in the idents is Duxbury, from a technical perspective these low-down shots have great depth of field. Someone did some great work in the post-production of these clips. Phil has some of the back story on these. 

How come all L&WMRS layouts? All lovely layouts, and great to see glimpses of 'proper' modelling on TV, but how did this come about? Someone from the production company live locally? Big improvement on the 'joke' models from last year anyway.

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2 hours ago, hicksan said:

I see the point of the 10x5 layout as a size that more people are familiar with as 'household' layout - a train set on a board with some scenic - so I get why the series starts with that. They want people to go away thinking "That looks fun. I could do that". It is a challenge to see what people are capable of under pressure of constraint and outside their comfort zone (hence also the hated SB challenge), and it makes participation more accessible to less experienced amateur teams on a more equal footing, and more scope for humour and light-heartedness.

It would be nice if, in some of the episodes, the layout challenge were something smaller - perhaps a shunting puzzle, micro-layout or terminus-FY size. As well as bringing some variation to the rather monotonous theme this would give scope for higher quality modelling, given the same team size within the same time frame, and therefore widen the challenge. I think this would work well as a semi-final stage and allow the better modellers a chance to show their metal.

 

A smaller layout would also have a better chance of a 'life' after the series (either with its builders or sold/raffled/given away). 10x5 is an awkward size to find a home for afterwards.

 

In terms of a size people are familiar with, given the small size of modern houses I suspect it's a lot bigger than many people perceive as a 'household' layout - 6 x4 and 8 x 4 are the more traditional sorts of sizes and even they aren't easy to house.

 

However a smaller layout would require a smaller team as otherwise team members would be getting in each others' way (I notice from Kathy's photos that the 'Union Jack' part of the winning layout was constructed separately but concurrently with the rest of the layout).

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On 28/09/2019 at 20:25, MarkSG said:

Going off on a slightly different tangent, I think one of the things we've learned from the winning layouts so far is that settrack is the way to go, and ideally on foam underlay. Now, to us, that does tend to scream "train set". But with the emphasis on functionality, that's the flying start you need. And you can disguise the foam underlay with a sprinkling of loose ballast without needing to rely on the loose ballast to give shape, which, as we've seen on previous episodes, is timeconsuming and risks problems with stray particles causing derailments. To paraphrase the old saying, when it comes to trackwork it's a case of: quick, reliable, realistic - pick any two from three. And the first two are the ones that matter more in this context.

This may sound a little cruel, and it's not any sort of reflection on the modelling skills of those involved, but most of the finished layouts remind me rather forcibly of the better sort of "junior layout" that clubs often put together fairly quickly for the kiddies to play with at their annual shows. There's  a lot more "proper" modelling in the GMRC layouts but  constraints of time and the 10x5 foot solid board format seem to militate in that direction and it does feel rather like variations on a theme.  Granted that this is a competition not a project to reflect the breadth of railway modelling, but it will tend to say to would be modellers that track circling a large solid baseboard is what a "standard" model railway is like and its actually one that most people would be hard put to find the space for.*

 

I've just been re-reading a couple of the late Alan Wright's articles about his original classic Inglenook Sidings and, though his own accounts of it do vary a bit, he says that he built it in the evenings of two weeks to  fill a gap in the Manchester MRS's 1979 exhibition. The evenings of two weeks suggests a build time of  perhaps 40 solid modeller hours for a very simple (but well finished) four square foot layout. Track, including the two points operated by H&M motors, was SMP  and it required just one electrical feed and included two small buildings (yard office and weighbridge) a low relief barn, an overbridge and a good number of lichen trees.

Compare that with what six modellers could possibly be expected to achieve in 24-30 hours. With interruptions for filming plus losing someone (for how many hours?) for the scratchbuild challenge. I reckon that's probably no more than 150 modeller hours  to build a fifty square foot layout. That's three modeller hours per square foot compared with ten for Inglenook and that didn't include any gimmicks apart from a wander controller with a couple of switches for the points.

 

*One reason for making this comparison was that some years ago at a show near Paris  I was helping to exhibit a terminus -fiddle yard layout and there was considerable fascination with our strange British habit of running locos round trains and shunting wagons in and out of sidings instead of simple running trains through the countryside. One chap told me that he'd love to build a layout that he could actually operate but living in a typically small Paris apartment meant he had no chance of ever finding the space. There were micro-layouts at the show but these were generally charming little H0e affairs that ran a repeating sequence. Nobody in France seemed to have heard of Inglenook Sidings and, when I explained the idea to him he was delighted by it; it was like turning on a light bulb. I'll never know whether he ever did build his own layout but Alan Wright's concept certainly convinced him that it was possible. 

 

 

 

Edited by Pacific231G
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I think one thing the program highlighted was that the whole team needs to work together and at speed. With all due respect to the Cambrian Coasters, it appeared on TV that some of their team were not really prepared to embrace the speed modelling approach needed to compete effectively. One or two beautifu but smalll models won't really win the competition and losing the capacity within the team will hurt the overall build.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

This may sound a little cruel, and it's not any sort of reflection on the modelling skills of those involved, but most of the finished layouts remind me rather forcibly of the better sort of "junior layout" that clubs often put together fairly quickly for the kiddies to play with at their annual shows. There's  a lot more "proper" modelling in the GMRC layouts but  constraints of time and the 10x5 foot solid board format seem to militate in that direction and it does feel rather like variations on a theme.  Granted that this is a competition not a project to reflect the breadth of railway modelling, but it will tend to say to would be modellers that track circling a large solid baseboard is what a "standard" model railway is like and its actually one that most people would be hard put to find the space for.*

 

I think that's true, and one of the weaknesses of the winning layout this week was that it really did have a very typical train set track layout - a double track oval consisting of straights along the long side and curves at the end, plus a branch line and some sidings. The Cambrian Coasters were more ambitious with their track design, and the Loco Ladies, by contrast, went for something simpler that gave more space for scenery.  And I was a little disappointed with Kathy's comment that the Loco Ladies' track was a bit too simple - some of the best exhibition layouts I've seen have been little more than a few tracks meandering through the countryside, and that's precisely what they set out to acheive.

 

But, on the other hand, I do appreciate that from a competition point of view, making the track too simple is a bit too much of a shortcut - it's a lot easier to get things running smoothly when you've got no points and minimal elevation changes. So expecting the teams to put some work into the track, and creating a design that allows for multiple routes, is worth rewarding.

 

And, again, that's why the competition works. There's no single, best choice for every design decision - there has to be a balance between different, and competing, demands by the judges.

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Although it's not mandated in the rules, most teams seem to end up with oval running lines. I guess the shape of the board kind of dictates this, but certainly in our heat, 2 teams avoided it.

 

Personally, I think allowing the teams to arrange the baseboards however they choose would give a wider variety of layouts. This could be accommodated within the filming quite easily and get viewers thinking about U and L shaped layouts around the outside of a room.

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Did enjoy the episode, with a good few things I liked on each of the layouts and a lot of fun had by all (to all appearances).

 

my one gripe with the episode was the constant harping on for every introduction of the loco ladies about hem being the first all female team - the team themselves were wonderful and course it’s quite right that it be highlighted and well intentioned (but silly) acts like the ‘chauffeur fare’ be related. But the presenters kept on with the ‘girl power’ comments etc literally every time they were on screen.

 

Perhaps it would have been best if they did the intro they did, and then simply carried on without further comment, treating them like any other team.

 

this is absolutely not a criticism of the loco ladies themselves, but of the manner in which the program presented them. I suppose that it is actually a rather insignificant gripe, the rest of the show was very nice, and the scratchbuild challenge produced some excellent results this time 

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13 hours ago, MarkSG said:

Going off on a slightly different tangent, I think one of the things we've learned from the winning layouts so far is that settrack is the way to go, and ideally on foam underlay. Now, to us, that does tend to scream "train set". But with the emphasis on functionality, that's the flying start you need. And you can disguise the foam underlay with a sprinkling of loose ballast without needing to rely on the loose ballast to give shape, which, as we've seen on previous episodes, is timeconsuming and risks problems with stray particles causing derailments. To paraphrase the old saying, when it comes to trackwork it's a case of: quick, reliable, realistic - pick any two from three. And the first two are the ones that matter more in this context.

We used settrack and a power rail and the only wiring was to our controller. Once we got the track laid properly and running and the ballast finally dried it ran faultlessly for hours. However.  Kathy really didn’t like it and said we should have wired all the joints. So yes going down that route works buts certainly doesn’t get brownie points from one of the judges. 

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16 minutes ago, LocoLadies CF said:

 However.  Kathy really didn’t like it and said we should have wired all the joints. So yes going down that route works buts certainly doesn’t get brownie points from one of the judges. 

 

That's rather unfair. The objective is to have a running railway for the end of day three, if all the joints corrode and it won't run a week later - that's irrelevant

 

Richard

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10 minutes ago, LocoLadies CF said:

We used settrack and a power rail and the only wiring was to our controller. Once we got the track laid properly and running and the ballast finally dried it ran faultlessly for hours. However.  Kathy really didn’t like it and said we should have wired all the joints. So yes going down that route works buts certainly doesn’t get brownie points from one of the judges. 

Kathy wanted all the joints wired?? Ain't nobody got time for that!!

 

We built our layout so that we could exhibit after the show and we've only fitted power drops around the board joins and points. We used Cat5 cable and connectors to reduce wiring, so on the day it was just a case of plugging everything in. Each cable provided either 1 point motor and 2 power drops or 2 point motors and 1 power drop. We labelled it all up under the layout and colour coded the cabling. It all worked faultlessly on the day and having brought it back home, we've done just one repair to an inter board link. 

 

There was more wiring added for special effects, but more of that in a couple of weeks...

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We are going to be taking our layout to Warley as special guests, and while we didn’t make the layout for exhibition, we are rebuilding it now ready for showing. This will be once only though as we have been asked to take it to other exhibitions and have decided that it is too unwieldy for us to manage again and we aren't a model railway group, just a group of like minded modellers. We don’t even live near each other.   The board will be divided up between us and the items on it shared. I will eventually auction the crochet trees for Breast Cancer Awareness when we no longer need them.   

 

However, the track has continued to run faultlessly once we reconnected it and we want new people to the model railway world to know that you can start in a modest way and expand later. My layout at home was made for and with my grandchildren and we all got together yesterday to plan how we are going to expand it and what we are going to do on it. To be fair, there will definitely be wiring !!!! 

 

We went as serious modellers and created something we were very happy and proud of.  The way we were portrayed on the show came from the editing.  The Cambrian Coasters commented at the time that I was being interviewed far more than the rest of the Team Captains and they obviously chose to use these as clips. It certainly wasn’t done on purpose as it took me away from the layout building  far more than any of us had planned for.  My family loved it though. Grandma on the telly!! 

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2 hours ago, MarkSG said:

 

I think that's true, and one of the weaknesses of the winning layout this week was that it really did have a very typical train set track layout - a double track oval consisting of straights along the long side and curves at the end, plus a branch line and some sidings. 

 

But as most potential Modellers’ are starters that’s also a good thing. The problem with the GMRC layouts, and 00 in general, is it is too big. Triang knew that when they introduced TT back in the 60s but it never caught on sufficiently in a mass-market commercial sense to oust 4mm. Lovely scale, modelled with it as a boy on the school layout, but already had 00 so stayed with 4mm for personal purchases.

 

 The format works, makes good TV - finescale it isn’t but perhaps “so what” is a fair comment. This might attract newbies, aiming at the top watch-making levels of skill wouldn’t; it would look too difficult to attempt.

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Can I ask how the lifeboat worked? I rather fancy adding something like that to a future layout.

 

Obviously, with my lifeboat nerd oilskins o, I'll point out the Rother is out of period. Nicely made and painted Langley kit though, and I can forgive anything for orange boats...

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13 hours ago, hicksan said:

How come all L&WMRS layouts? All lovely layouts, and great to see glimpses of 'proper' modelling on TV, but how did this come about? Someone from the production company live locally? Big improvement on the 'joke' models from last year anyway.

 

Someone from the production company got in touch with the club. Having 3 layouts that live set up and ready for filming is a big help. The work took 2 days at the club plus post-production. I'm trying to get the full footage for a future WoR article. They really do look different on telly.

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Listening to Jason Manford on Absolute Classic Rock this morning and, in amongst the usual drivel, his guest said how much he was enjoying GRMRC and recommending others to watch it.

 

Seems the outside world is taking notice...

 

steve

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46 minutes ago, LocoLadies CF said:

We went as serious modellers and created something we were very happy and proud of.  The way we were portrayed on the show came from the editing.  The Cambrian Coasters commented at the time that I was being interviewed far more than the rest of the Team Captains and they obviously chose to use these as clips. It certainly wasn’t done on purpose as it took me away from the layout building  far more than any of us had planned for.  My family loved it though. Grandma on the telly!! 

 

My apologies if this section is in response to my comment - I certainly did not mean for there to be any sort of impression that I was criticising you or your teammates for anything on the production side of the show. You were wonderful and above all seemed to be enjoying yourselves immensely. 

 

I actually thought that the crochet trees were very good fun indeed :) I’d have given extra marks for that actually :) both for imagination and for an additional skill not often used in railway modelling 

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Just caught up on catch up (having been at  Elsecar for the Yorkshire Garden Railway show yesterday, managed escape being interviewed by Phil Parker but might have been caught on camera :lol:), and agree that Rail Men of Kent deserved to win with that impressive model of St Pancras, as well as the faultless running that they had.  My only quibble is that on the theme "Best of Britain" I felt that it was more centered around the South-East/London as opposed  to the other teams - Cambrian Coasters having something from all round the UK (Leek soup, Yorkshire puddings and Haggis) and the Loco Ladies whose layout I thought was a fantastic generic representation of the UK

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5 hours ago, noiseboy72 said:

I think one thing the program highlighted was that the whole team needs to work together and at speed. With all due respect to the Cambrian Coasters, it appeared on TV that some of their team were not really prepared to embrace the speed modelling approach needed to compete effectively. One or two beautifu but smalll models won't really win the competition and losing the capacity within the team will hurt the overall build.

 

 

A fair assessment if winning were the goal. However for the majority of our team victory was the least of our ambitions. I don't know how my bits to camera were edited as I haven't yet seen the program but I attempted to make clear I wasn't in it to win it. The team were undoubtedly left short by me leaving on the last day of filming as I wanted to be at home for my wife's birthday the following day. Living in a remote location in mid Wales and travelling by train pretty much forced this on me. I guess that from the other episodes I've seen the competitive element will have been ramped up by the production company, don't believe all you see on telly.

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