Westbury - Weymouth route mid 1970s

[EddieK]

I have been looking into trains utilised on this route in the mid 1970s mainly from referring to a few books and to the photos available on the net. 

 

From what I have found so far and what I have surmised (rightly or wrongly): -

Weymouth - Bristol (and beyond) "local" trains were either three car DMUs or a pair of same, mostly Cross Country types but sometimes suburban types, *or* loco hauled trains of around four Mark 1s, sometimes with a GUV added, typically hauled by Class 31 but have seen photos of similar trains hauled by Class 52.

Inter-regional trains formed of longer rakes of coaching stock hauled by Class 47 or Peak locos.

 

So: please correct my thoughts so far, or embellish as necessary!

 

Also, was there any freight traffic on the line south of Yeovil Pen Mill?

 

I look forward to hearing from you...

[dpgibbons]

Goods services were withdrawn from Weymouth in 1972, so there were likely no goods trains south of Yeovil after that date. 

[The Stationmaster]

Definitely no freight traffic south of Yeovil by the time I went to the area in early 1974 (unless you count the cement train from Westbury to Exeter Central which took the curve from Pen Mill to Yeovil Jcn at the times it was routed that way).  There was still some freight to Yeovil but not much except in the sugar beet season when Pen Mill yard got extremely busy loading sugar beet anfd then receiving back beet pulp some weeks later.

 

As you thought the passenger service was a mixture of DMUs and loco hauled.  The DMUs were normally Class 116 type plus Class 121 working the Bridport branch while the loco hauled trains were all booked for Class 31 haulage and some trains regularly conveyed a van in addition to passenger vehicles with the van often being a full brake of some sort.   The heaviest passenger traffic was between Yeovil and Weymouth on Bank Holidays and in the summer on days when the weather was really good and it wasn't unusual on such days for as many as 500 people to try get on the mid-morning 3 car DMU to Weymouth so we'd ask for the train to be strengthened if possible on those days

[Fat Controller]

35 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Definitely no freight traffic south of Yeovil by the time I went to the area in early 1974 (unless you count the cement train from Westbury to Exeter Central which took the curve from Pen Mill to Yeovil Jcn at the times it was routed that way).  There was still some freight to Yeovil but not much except in the sugar beet season when Pen Mill yard got extremely busy loading sugar beet anfd then receiving back beet pulp some weeks later.

 

As you thought the passenger service was a mixture of DMUs and loco hauled.  The DMUs were normally Class 116 type plus Class 121 working the Bridport branch while the loco hauled trains were all booked for Class 31 haulage and some trains regularly conveyed a van in addition to passenger vehicles with the van often being a full brake of some sort.   The heaviest passenger traffic was between Yeovil and Weymouth on Bank Holidays and in the summer on days when the weather was really good and it wasn't unusual on such days for as many as 500 people to try get on the mid-morning 3 car DMU to Weymouth so we'd ask for the train to be strengthened if possible on those days

i did a Christmas stint as a sorter in the centre next to Temple Meads; there was a lot of Channel Islands post that went via there to Weymouth, enough to justify a GUV, as well as whatever van provision there was.

[lapford34102]

Hi,

Covers a wide period but a few shots here that might be of interest.

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/castle-cary-to-weymouth.html

 

Stu

[johnofwessex]

In summer there was a train from Bristol at about 9.00am which I remember being 3xClass 117 sets - 9 car.  I remember it grinding its way up Eversholt Bank

[EddieK]

3 hours ago, lapford34102 said:

Hi,

Covers a wide period but a few shots here that might be of interest.

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/castle-cary-to-weymouth.html

 

Stu

Yes, a useful resource.

[dpgibbons]

For the BR Blue period the DMUs on the line appear to have been Classes 118 and 120 from Bristol, with Class 121s on the Bridport branch.

Edited September 27, 2019 by dpgibbons

[lapford34102]

2 minutes ago, dpgibbons said:

appear to have been Class 118 and 120, with Class 121s on the Bridport branch.

119's also featured. 

Although possibly a bit early for your interest Hymeks were the regular power until replaced by the Brush Type 2's plus  Warships appeared on regular turns in the early 70's.

 

Stu

 

 

 

[Fat Controller]

It was a popular destination for MYSTEXes from South Wales during the period in question; Class 47s and uncared-for Mk1 and Mk2Z stock.

[lapford34102]

Hi,

EddieK, you may be aware of this book but if not then it's one of the best for the history of the line.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/story-Westbury-Weymouth-Line-present/dp/0860935140

 

Slightly off timeline but with regards to Warships on the route Newton Abbot's were diagrammed for Wey  - Westbury during the early 70's. My understanding was that they were substituting for DMMU's whilst the High Density units got corridor connections. Possibly co-incidence but they were unusual before this time but commoner after. Perhaps someone knows

 

Stu

[MidlandRed]

On 27 September 2019 at 09:20, dpgibbons said:

For the BR Blue period the DMUs on the line appear to have been Classes 118 and 120 from Bristol, with Class 121s on the Bridport branch.

 

Maybe late for your period but I travelled from Bristol to Weymouth on a very hot summer Sunday morning in 1979 (could have been 1980). The train I travelled in was at least 6 cars, and I was in the front coach - a Metro Cammell DMU (101) - I recall it very well as it was absolutely packed with day trippers - my journey was from Newcastle on Tyne (minibus to Birmingham and train from there to Bristol). One of those journeys where you constantly fall asleep and keep waking up with a start. 

 

Possibly my second worst DMU journey of all time (the worst was Derby to BNS in a motor coach of a Cravens 105 3 car DMU - I was unwell for two days after - I swear a combination of fume inhalation and severe vibration for a prolonged period).

[The Johnster]

Trains originating from/terminating at Bristol TM were mostly cross country dmus, 120 Swindon or 119 Gloucester with an occasional substitution with a 117/8, while the Cardiff-Weymouth through vacuum mk1 trains were loco hauled by Hymeks which ran around at Bristol.  Depending on what you call the mid 70s, from about '73 these were replaced by class 31s or even occasionally Canton 25s which wern't much use and couldn't time the trains, and the dmus featured less of the cross countries and more Metro-Cammell sets.  By the mid 70s IIRC all the cross country dmus were in blue/grey livery, but some Metro-Camms and 117/8s may have had 'refurbished' blue stripe livery.  33s appeared a bit later than this, replacing 31s.  

 

There may well have been occasions when locos were replaced at Bristol and Warships, Westerns, and vacuum fitted 47s would be the likely candidates, but I never saw it happen.  Canton drivers never signed either type of  'production' Warship and would have required a traction pilot if they were working through to Westbury, which was the normal arrangement.   Not 50s or 47/4s, as the stock was still vacuum braked and steam heated, not 45/6 AFAIK, and I doubt the venture into the single line wilderness beyond Castle Cary would ever have been entrusted to a 22, which would have been even less capable than a 25 even if it didn't break down...  I believe the Bridport bubble car was serviced at St Philip's Marsh and came up connected to one of the dmu services for this; I could not say if it was locked out of use like the bubble cars used on the Cardiff-Crewe route to improve timekeeping but should have been as anyone travelling in it would have no access to the guard.  On the North to West, these became the resort of train crews travelling home and featured all sorts of ad hoc seating arrangements to construct beds, card school tables, etc.  Some bubble cars were still in all over blue livery in the early to mid 70s but all had FYP by then.

 

[Rivercider]

Have you looked on Flickr at the group 'Diesels between Bristol and Weymouth'?

To sort the wheat from the chaff also try using the search term 'Weymouth 1970' etc.

Andy Kirkham of this parish has a number of photos on that route in the 1970s,

 

cheers

[Rivercider]

Regarding DMU types, from my observation over the years it seemed like any Bristol based 3-car set

could appear on pretty much any of the Bristol 3-car DMU diagrams. The Weymouth route was equally likely to be a suburban set as a cross-country one.

Edit - and I think the general timetable over the years included two loco and coaches workings each way each weekday.

I think the same pairs of trains were worked by loco and coaches over the years.

In 1979 the loco hauled workings were:-

2O51 05.15 Bristol - Weymouth (08.12)

2V59 09.11 Weymouth - Bristol (11.39)

2O60 16.10 Bristol - Weymouth (18.46)

2V72 19.45 Weymouth - Bristol (22.24)

The other services were normally booked for DMUs, including those which started and terminated at Westbury. 

 

cheers

Edited September 29, 2019 by Rivercider
Additional info

[Gwiwer]

Much of the relevant ground has been covered above.  As Rivercider notes pretty much any DMU type which lived at Bristol would be sent to the seaside at Weymouth usually as a 3-car set but sometimes just two and on summer days when traffic was known to be heavy six or rarely nine-car formations were in use.  The additional stock would have probably been spare from weekday duties elsewhere.  

 

Bridport closed in 1975 meaning the appearance of single-car 121s ceased thereafter.  On the final day, 5th May, the branch train was a 4-car formation 117+121 partly in order to handle the expected last-day riders and partly to accommodate a railtour formed 3H which itself could not be run down the branch (because the crew were not trained on the stock I believe rather than any ban on the stock working the branch) meaning all those folk decanted into the branch train which then ran an unadvertised extra trip between timetabled services for the railtour patrons.  It also carried anyone else who happened to board.  The Thumper recessed in Maiden Newton coal yard for the duration and is the only occasion known to me when passenger stock used that siding.  

 

Two summer Saturday through trains operated until the late 1970s from Cardiff.  Timings and exact patterns varied but one came south via Dr. Day's curve (not Bristol TM), Bath , Salisbury, Eastleigh and Bournemouth to Weymouth thus offering a rare chance to travel over the then-closed Romsey - Eastleigh line.  The other ran via Bristol, Frome avoiding line and Castle Cary.  Each train returned via the opposite route to its outward journey.  Those routes avoided avoided most reversals; Southampton and Bristol at the time were very busy and finding the necessary path for a loco run-round could have been difficult.  The "via Eastleigh" trains did at times run via a reversal in Southampton instead though the timetable allowed for the longer route.  I suspect this was due to train crew route knowledge issues.  Those trains were formed of a Canton 47 with 8 - 10 Mk1s in tow.

 

The loco-hauled duties on the Yeovil route were worked by class 35, 42, 43 and occasionally 52 until the hydraulic run-down when class 25 took over briefly and then class 31.  Subsequently, and on occasions previously as required, class 33 was used though their appearances were uncommon.  However both SR Bournemouth / Weymouth and at least some WR Bristol men signed them so if one was used it should not have presented a problem.  I believe at least one 2x33 has been recorded over the route on a summer holiday train though more recently than the time period OP is interested in and probably related to the wider use of the class on WR duties to west and north Wales and Manchester in the 1980s.

 

I also understand that 33/1+4TC (or possibly 2x4TC) has operated over the route.  Bristol men may have signed those including for push-pull operation as there was a Portsmouth - Bristol Sunday duty for 33/1+8TC for several years in the mid 70s although that train could have been covered by Fratton and Salisbury men.

 

Despite the WR having never loved the route and tried hard to run it down for closure it has retained a level of interest and variety greater than some others and continues to require significant strengthening of the basic infrequent service in the summer.  Of note the SWR Waterloo - Corfe Castle train of the last two summers, usually a 6-car train formed 2x159 over this stretch, has often (when it has actually run) picked up large numbers at Yeovil Pen Mill and some at the very poorly advertised, but public, stop at Maiden Newton.  

Edited September 29, 2019 by Gwiwer

[EddieK]

Thanks to all respondents, some useful stuff has emerged. 

 

I am considering the possibility of a layout featuring Maiden Newton when the Bridport branch was still extant. Hence the vague "mid 1970s" time frame, so looking around 1974 to May 1975, and I am sort of getting the idea of an earlier time period as well, around 1968/9, after the canopy over the branch platform at MN was taken down. (Quite like the idea of some of the early incarnations of corporate blue.....). 

 

As an aside, my wife has spent much time researching the history of her family, and on her mother's side there are ancestors from villages near Bridport. Coincidentally, when her mother remarried, her new husband also had ancestors from other villages near Bridport, one being Loders, through which the branch passed....

 

Also, a former colleague from my time in the preserved railway sector travelled on the Bridport branch just before closure, and he even has a model of one of the Class 121s as a "guest" on his Yorkshire-based layout.

 

A few weeks ago, we had a week in the Bridport area, just to get the feel of the locality.... And to visit some of the local pubs

Edited September 29, 2019 by EddieK
Added mention of our recent holiday in Bridport

[Fat Controller]

Eddie,

Did you visit West Bay? The old station seems to be largely extant, with a BR Mk 1 coach next to the platform.

[MidlandRed]

The Bristol 121s, late 60s/early 70s tended to be W55032-34. 

 

Class 122 W55014 was a Bristol unit in the (much) earlier 60s.

 

Class 122s were also used in the late 60s on the Yeovil Junction to Town shuttle - W55013 is an example. These may have also appeared on the Bridport branch. 

[Andy Kirkham]

16 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 not 45/6 AFAIK, 

 

OCT 74B 15. The 13:00 Weymouth-Birmingham enters Maiden Newton hauled by a Peak, September 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

But you will see from the Flickr comments that this was a rare occurrence. One of the reasons I had made this trip was to photograph a Western at Maiden Newton.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Andy Kirkham

[lapford34102]

On ‎29‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 23:50, MidlandRed said:

These may have also appeared on the Bridport branch. 

122's certainly appeared during the green era but it was predominately 121's

I was aware Class 25's did trip workings to Yeovil but thought that was about it for south of Cary.

I never recall seeing or hearing of one further south of Yeovil so would be interested if anyone has any information. The very rare 22 did get through. Weymouth never signed the 25, they were appalled enough to get 31's for their Hymeks, Lord knows what they'd have made of the 25's.

33/1's +TC's did have Wey-BTM turns but that was rather later.

On ‎29‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 17:35, Gwiwer said:

Despite the WR having never loved the route and tried hard to run it down for closure

The view from the Weymouth end was that the need to keep Bridport open as long as they had to - the closure being delayed while they sorted out "alternative transport" - probably saved the Yeovil - Dorchester Jcn section as by then views had moved on.

Not sure the WR ever fell out of love more likely the change in regional boundaries left it in a sort of limbo with the SR being responsible for part of the line.

 

Stu

[The Johnster]

4 hours ago, Andy Kirkham said:

OCT 74B 15. The 13:00 Weymouth-Birmingham enters Maiden Newton hauled by a Peak, September 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

But you will see from the Flickr comments that this was a rare occurrence. One of the reasons I had made this trip was to photograph a Western at Maiden Newton.

Glad I qualified my comment with an 'AFAIK', then.  This loco must have hauled the train down to Weymouth earlier in the day; I was unaware that there was such a thing as a Birmingham-Weymouth through service at this time.  Mystex from South Wales have been mentioned; 10 mk1s and a 47.  47s were perfect for this work as wherever the excursion ended up (Scarborough on one occasion) the drivers would have traction knowledge of them.

[EddieK]

23 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Eddie,

Did you visit West Bay? The old station seems to be largely extant, with a BR Mk 1 coach next to the platform.

Yes, we visited West Bay a couple of times. One afternoon we took part in a treasure trail around the local area (finding cryptic clues to solve a puzzle) and also found an interesting micropub. The carriage at the platform is some sort of GWR luggage van and forms a dining area for the restaurant based in the station building. On our first visit, 14 years ago by my reckoning, the platform held a couple of 4-CEP centre trailers, as I recall.

[EddieK]

23 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

The Bristol 121s, late 60s/early 70s tended to be W55032-34. 

 

Class 122 W55014 was a Bristol unit in the (much) earlier 60s.

 

Class 122s were also used in the late 60s on the Yeovil Junction to Town shuttle - W55013 is an example. These may have also appeared on the Bridport branch. 

Have seen photographic evidence of W55035 on the Bridport branch, prior to it becoming a departmental vehicle. Also seen an image of W55026, "C126" on loan (presumably) from Cardiff, on the branch.

[MidlandRed]

2 minutes ago, EddieK said:

Have seen photographic evidence of W55035 on the Bridport branch, prior to it becoming a departmental vehicle. Also seen an image of W55026, "C126" on loan (presumably) from Cardiff, on the branch.

 

Interesting. Im pretty sure the allocations of the single car units swapped around somewhat - so these are not surprising. Any single unit allocated to Bristol may have worked the branch - Bristol also used them on the Severn Beach branch. 55035 and 55029 were at one time Laira units, and 55025/6 at Canton.

 

Not at Bristol but an example of a 'journeyman' single unit (which a number seemed to be) is 55018. Seemingly after transfer to Laira at the beginning of the 60s, went to Tyseley in 1962 but was reasonably elusive - I saw a record of it working from Leamington. I actually saw it in 1967/8 in Bfyp in use seemingly as a route learning car, passing Bescot - it appeared in passenger use as P118 on Exeter - Okehampton, photographed around 1970!