Bachmann Running In Times

[JST]

I have just bought a new Bachmann Prairie tank and noted that Bachmann recommend 1 hour of running in. The loco started out somewhat jerky and wasn't much better after the hour. I have now run it in for 3 separate hours and it is just starting to smooth out. The symptoms were very much stiff gearing related rather than pickup or decoder issues. I had a similar experience with a Bachmann Pannier tank. Is this normal for Bachmann locos or is it just me?

[Alex TM]

Hi JST,

 

I usually give them around 30 minutes in each direction, with the power up to around 50%.  Normally I find that to be enough, but I do find some that require quite a bit longer.  If it's of use, I also run locos in with a cheap Bachmann trainset controller; if I can get reasonable running from that then I find my Gaugemaster units will work like a dream.

 

Hope that's of use.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[bike2steam]

I normally run-in Bachmann (steam) locos over a period of about 2 hours, gradually increasing the speed, forward, and reverse, then gradually increasing the load. As Bachmann over the years have been using mostly 3-pole motors, I tend to spend more time coaxing them up to standard over a longer period of time than more efficient 5-pole examples. Some have failed to get to a satisfactory level, the Standard 5's being the worst, so motors have been changed to Mashima 1426 ( now a bit difficult!), and have increased haulage power by 50%. 

[Dunsignalling]

The short answer to how much running in Bachmann locos need is simply "more" - they carry on getting better with every extra mile, subject to proper care and servicing.

 

One thing that is necessary on new ones, though, is to thoroughly oil round each pivot point on the motion/valve gear, as well as the slide bars and piston rods where applicable. This seems to have been effectively discontinued in the factory since the transparent inner packaging came in.

 

Jerkiness? I have a BR3 tank that was a real bag of nails out of the box but completely transformed by a few drops in the right places.

 

John

Edited September 28, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[JST]

Thanks guys - very helpful. I have oiled the pivot points but I admit I missed the slide bars. I will pop up to the loft now!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The short answer to how much running in Bachmann locos need is simply "more" - they carry on getting better with every extra mile, subject to proper care and servicing...

Definitely.

 

To add to this, some come out of the box decently smooth, and there's little improvement in smoothness to be had: but traction always improves as the tyres of the driven wheels polish up. (Best to date of their three pole motored RTR steamers that I have sampled, the 9F.)

 

And I second Paul Mays on the Standard 5. Bit of a dog, but it can be got to come around eventually even with the Bachmann motor; although requiring much attention to weight distribution and spring adjustment in addition to the running time.

 

More general note, I do wish Bach had stuck to their original plan of five pole motors announced at the start of their Blue Riband range. The Buhler and Mashima motors origjnally used are noticeably more refined than the general run of Bach's in house 3 pole motors, although a good DCC decoder completely masks the difference on track. (I can directly compare the A1 and WD 2-8-0 which I have both five pole and three pole versions.)

[D9020 Nimbus]

In my experience performance is very variable. Some run really well "out of the box", others take quite some time. I've sometimes thought an engine was simply a poor runner only for it to improve suddenly.

[The Johnster]

As Nimbus says, they vary, but really poor running is usually down to an easily diagnosed and cured issue...  Of my current fleet of 13 locos, all steam outline, 11 are Bachmanns and 7 of those are ostensibly identical 57xx/8750 mechanisms.  Most were bought second hand on 'Bay with 2 brand new out of the box.  Let's consider the 57xx/8750s for a moment...

 

None of them run badly, but some run better than others.  The best 2 are a brand new bought by me mech and a 'Bay of uncertain mileage, both of which are silent and smooth running, can be controlled down to an exquisitely low speed, and are as good as anyone can reasonably expect from a volume produced RTR mech.  Another 3, including a brand new 8750, are 'good' runners, but make a little noise and cannot quite be perfectly smoothly started and stopped, and 2 others (both off 'Bay) are still by no means bad but have a perceptible 'knock' at some point of a driving wheel revolution, suggesting a motion issue but I haven't isolated it as yet!

 

Two of my 56xx are near perfect runners, but a third, again second hand, chassis with ancient Mainline body on it, is another 'knocker', and is restricted to passenger work.  There are 2 small prairies, both excellent performers, and 2 Hornby locos, a very good 42xx and a Railroad 2721 which took a lot of fettling to get any decent slow running at all out of and requires constant and meticulous cleaning to keep up to scratch.

 

Some general observations; Bachmann mechs improve over time, as running gets smoother and the tyre surfaces roughen up with mileage and traction increases; out of the box they are very highly polished nickel silver.  They seem to require less cleaning and pickup attention than Hornbys, but with only 2 red box examples I can hardly claim to have a representative selection.  But there are pitfalls which might trip the unwary.  New or 'as new' condition models will have the coloured grease applied in China when the mech was assembled as lubrication. but this stuff is prone to solidifying over time and performing as the exact opposite of lubrication!  In extreme cases, it'll seize your mech altogether.  This stuff is used because it conforms to the shipping insurance requirements for non-flammable material and does not soak into areas where it might cause damage in transit or storage.

 

Whenever I buy a brand new loco, or a s/h one with this grease, I dismantle the mech and clean it all off off completely, using a rattlecan spray electronic switch cleaner which is powerful enough to blow most of the stuff off.  Leave the clean mech to evaporate all the cleaner off, and relube with a suitable non-mineral fine machine oil (model shop will advise and supply) applied as sparingly as you can get away with using a hypodermic syringe or a drop on the end of a pin. 

 

I'd go along with the concept that 5-pole motors are A Good Thing, but very good performance can be had from Baccy's standard 3-poles, and if I were looking to improve the performance I'd be considering upping the final drive gear ratio rather than replacing the motors; I accept this is not the cheapest option and competitive pricing in the RTR marketplace means that neither thing is likely to happen!  Modern 3-pole can motors don't 'cog' at low speed like the old Triang and Hornby Dublo open frame beasts, and even those can turn in a pretty good performance if they are balanced properly. 

 

I'm also a fan of the concept (but not the execution by Palitoy Mainline) of split chassis current collection, which eliminates pickups and the slight braking effect they have on wheels, but, again, I don't see it happening in any but the few examples from commissioners that we already have like the DJH J94 and 14xx, as Palitoy have very effectively destroyed the credibility of such mechanisms in the UK market.

 

Somebody made the point about running in with a cheapo Baccy controller; this is an interesting idea and performance of any DC loco is improved by such as Gaugemaster.  

 

We ask a lot of our RTR motors and mechs.  We demand that the locos look realistic, which limits the size of the motor and transmission and it's positioning in the loco body so as not to obstruct cab detail or visible daylight where necessary beneath boilers.  Back in the 70s and 80s, Palitoy and Airfix, and Lima to a lesser extent, used big pancake motors hidden in the fireboxes (which on Manors and 43xx were incorrectly widened to accommodate them) and attempted to get sufficient power out of them by running them at very high speeds geared down through trains of spur gears.  It didn't work, and rubber traction tyres were resorted to, to the detriment of pickup and slow running.  The nylon spur gears were not man enough for the job and split, and Palitoy's quartering problems are well known.  As for Lima, the body toolings were not bad by the standards of the day, but the mechs; ugh!!!

 

Tender drives were another dodge, using the pancakes and spur gears. but I never liked them; a tender should not move a mm before the loco starts to move, and the spurs were usually horribly visible on one side of the tender.  Again, traction tyres usually spoiled any chance of decent smooth slow running, as well as spreading crud everywhere and b*ggering up the pickups as well.

 

Modern practice has reverted to worm and cog drives using very small and powerful motors which are cheaply mass produced in South East Asia, and works very well, but many steam outline locos are still a bit lacking in tractive effort, and are unable to reproduce to scale the performance of their prototypes.  A Pacific should be able to haul 14 coaches on the level at a scale 80mph, but few RTR ones can despite the free running of modern stock!  Locos are by and large too light, with space which should be used for tractive weight being taken by DCC circuitry and lead no longer permitted for safety reasons.  I fill any spare space in my locos with 'liquid lead', lead shot sealed with pva, which improves slow running and pick up.  Gear ratios are much better than RTR used to was, but could still IMHO be improved, and the use of flywheels would improve smoothness as well.  Haulage isn't my biggest problem on a small BLT, though...

 

I wonder if some sort of 'stayalive' could be devised for DC models!

[Hilux5972]

I bought a brand new WCRC class 47 and it was a real dog. After around 12 hours of running and oiling and Repeating that every half hour, it is now my smoothest loco in my fleet. All are different of course, the second 47 I bought ran like a dream straight from the box. 

[Dunsignalling]

10 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

 

 

 

 

Modern practice has reverted to worm and cog drives using very small and powerful motors which are cheaply mass produced in South East Asia, and works very well, but many steam outline locos are still a bit lacking in tractive effort, and are unable to reproduce to scale the performance of their prototypes.  A Pacific should be able to haul 14 coaches on the level at a scale 80mph, but few RTR ones can despite the free running of modern stock!  Locos are by and large too light, with space which should be used for tractive weight being taken by DCC circuitry and lead no longer permitted for safety reasons.  I fill any spare space in my locos with 'liquid lead', lead shot sealed with pva, which improves slow running and pick up.  Gear ratios are much better than RTR used to was, but could still IMHO be improved, and the use of flywheels would improve smoothness as well.  Haulage isn't my biggest problem on a small BLT, though...

 

I wonder if some sort of 'stayalive' could be devised for DC models!

I hope for your sake that the "lead shot" you mention isn't really lead. There has been more than one thread on here warning of the dangers of this method of ballasting locos. The best "stay-alive", in your case, will be to remove what you have added.

 

The combination of lead and Pva is potentially lethal for locos. Pva is acidic and will already be reacting with the lead. The resulting compound takes up more room than the original lead and, by definition, you have inserted it into confined spaces. Once it has taken up any unoccupied room, it will continue to expand, eventually creating enough pressure to cause the loco body to split open. 

 

It's a case of "when" rather than "if" and, the more tightly you have packed the stuff in, the sooner disaster will strike your models.

 

John

Edited September 29, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[The Johnster]

Liquid Lead is sold under that name and looks/feels like lead shot except for the colour, but I couldn't state what it's exact chemical composition is and can't put my hands on it at the moment to check the 'ingredients'; I'll dig it out and have a look.  I have had no trouble with this stuff so far (!), but will have a look at all the locos I've weighted in this way, and it probably isn't actually lead.  It is a sort of brown colour unlike the silver/grey of lead.  If I find anything untoward, today's task will be digging it out of my loco bodies and replacing it with fresh Liquid Lead fixed with UHU; thanks for the timely warning!  No problems have surfaced so far, and some of this ballasting has been in place for over a year.

 

I still contend that most RTR locos could carry more tractive weight and that gear ratios are an area in which performance is adequate but could be improved.  As for flywheels, the problem with these is that, despite their usefulness in increasing tractive weight, they are at their least effective when their effect is required most, at low speeds.  The same can be said of any electronic stayalive I can think of for DC use, and the only answer is the same as it's always been; good tracklaying and an effective rail, pickup, and wheel cleaning regime.

Edited September 29, 2019 by The Johnster

[JST]

Just to let you know the loco is running much better now - especially after I binned the Hattons decoder and fitted a Zimo!