00bankrupt Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 Hi, This is my first post so forgive my ignorance. I am very new to the scene and still learning. I have some NCB wagons and I am curious as to how late this livery would have been seen running? I intend to set my fictional layout in 1990. Can anyone advise what happened to all that NCB liveried rolling stock? Was it rebranded or sold off/scrapped? Again I appreciate your patience with a total noob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 Most of it would have been scrapped, being life-expired, and unfitted; the wagon works on the systems in the North-East especially, were adept at prolonging the life-spans of wagons beyond that planned. I think the Onllwyn site in South Wales retained NCB- liveried ex-BR hoppers into the 1990s, and perhaps beyond. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted September 29, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 29, 2019 They'd be working on NCB sites and hauled by NCB locos rather than BR's, for example transferring coal from screen to washeries, or from pits to Coking Ovens (with the exception of some locations in the North East of England where NCB locos and stock worked for short distances over BR metals. The locos were licensed by BR and the traincrews had to have been passed out on BR's Rules and Regulations and have the appropriate route knowledge). The NCB had some fairly extensive internal systems, like the Wemyss Private Railway in Scotland, or the Maesteg and Mountain Ash networks in South Wales, and what were effectively branch lines of several miles length in places as well. So the NCB wagons did not escape onto the BR network. What sort of wagons are they? If they are wooden 7 plankers, they are a bit early for the 1990s (I remember XPO 7 plankers being used at Beddau Coke Ovens in the 1980s, in black livery), but steel bodied wagons or hoppers will be suitable. Many of these wagons were ex-BR stock and might be re-liveried for main line use, but it's probably not worth the effort as the correct liveries are available anyway. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 NCB wagons did turn up at preservation societies all over the country if that is of any use to you. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bankrupt Posted September 29, 2019 Author Share Posted September 29, 2019 Thank you for your swift replies! I'm a little more knowledgeable on the subject now. i do have a mix of steel bodied hoppers (16t and 21t) but also some planked stuff too. However the later will be an excuse to have a layout set in the 50s or 60s. thanks again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Alex TM Posted September 29, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 29, 2019 Hi, Although a little earlier than the time-frame of the OP, the early '80s still saw the majority of internal user wagons at both Cardowan and Bedlay collieries being RCH style 7-planks. I seem to remember a handful of BR style 16t minerals around Cardowan, but these seemed to be used for tripping landsale coal across the BR line from the pit to the sales yard; these were fairly filthy so I cannot remember seeing any markings on them. As for the coal leaving the pits for larger customers, if memory serves me correctly that from Cardowan went out in 16t steels hauled by 37s, while those from Bedlay went out in a larger traditional wagon (21.5 or 24.5t?) often hauled by pairs of 20s. Hope that's of use. Regards, Alex. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bankrupt Posted September 29, 2019 Author Share Posted September 29, 2019 Thanks you for your help Alex, it is hard to beat first hand anecdotal information. I just wish I would have paid a bit more attention in the 80s to what was on the railways then! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 Paul Bartlett's site, as ever, has some useful stuff:- https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/cwmcokeworksinternalwagons https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brodsworthcolliery https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/cynheidreinternalwagon https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/onllywncolliery are just a few of the sites covered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Pits with internal railway systems requiring the use of internal user wagons were increasingly rare by 1990. . Many such pits had disappeared in the wake of the 1984-1985 strike. . Different systems had used such wagons for a variety of purposes, but one of the most common was for landsale use, where NCB wagons were loaded at the screens / washery and tripped within the complex to the landsale yard where local coal merchants collected their coal, or from where concessionary coal was distributed to the homes of pit workers, their widows and pensioners. . At other, larger systems, they would be used to transfer 'ROM' run of mine coal from outlying pits to a central washery, where, once washed the coal was moved out in BR wagons. . Or, as at say Mountain Ash, coal was moved from pitheads (Deep Duffryn, Penrikyber) to a smokeless fuel plant (Abercwmboi) by means of former BR metals, using a variety of internal use wagons. . When the Mountain Ash network succumbed to flooding around 1980, many of its internal use wagons were relocated to other pits e.g. Mardy (at Maerdy) and Cwm (Llantwit) which would have probably been by BR metals. . But, by 1990, most pits were either sending out coal in (i) MGR hoppers or (2) for domestic use in HEA hoppers, or Cawodd or Kelly's containers and some for industrial use in the surviving MDV 21 tonners and hoppers. . Large opencast washeries / disposal centres such as Onllwyn and GCG (Gwaun cae Gurwen) were probably the last to use internal use wagons in large numbers. . Onllwyn even ended up using former BR HEA hoppers for internal use, which were in turn sold to ASW in Cardiff and converted into billet carriers. . Brian R 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozzer models Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) On 29/09/2019 at 13:46, Fat Controller said: Most of it would have been scrapped, being life-expired, and unfitted; the wagon works on the systems in the North-East especially, were adept at prolonging the life-spans of wagons beyond that planned. I think the Onllwyn site in South Wales retained NCB- liveried ex-BR hoppers into the 1990s, and perhaps beyond. you mean these wagons the 2nd photo is taken at Onllwyn Accurascale NCB wagon at Blaendulais by brian mosby, on Flickr The New Accurascale NCB Onllwyn Colliery HUO 24.5t internal user wagon set by brian mosby, on Flickr Edited October 2, 2019 by mozzer models 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 On 29/09/2019 at 13:03, 00bankrupt said: I am very new to the scene and still learning. I have some NCB wagons and I am curious as to how late this livery would have been seen running? I intend to set my fictional layout in 1990. Can anyone advise what happened to all that NCB liveried rolling stock? Was it rebranded or sold off/scrapped? What are the NCB wagons you have? Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 hours ago, mozzer models said: you mean these wagons the 2nd photo is taken at Onllwyn Accurascale NCB wagon at Blaendulais by brian mosby, on Flickr The New Accurascale NCB Onllwyn Colliery HUO 24.5t internal user wagon set by brian mosby, on Flickr THe 24.5tonners were replaced by air-braked HEAs; not sure what, if any wagons are still on site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 3, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 3, 2019 18 hours ago, mozzer models said: you mean these wagons the 2nd photo is taken at Onllwyn Accurascale NCB wagon at Blaendulais by brian mosby, on Flickr The New Accurascale NCB Onllwyn Colliery HUO 24.5t internal user wagon set by brian mosby, on Flickr Dem's da fellas to be sure they are 'an all, at all at all, Moz (I have no idea why I typed that in Oirish). Nice shot; took me a minute to realise what the foreground is, and the hoppers look perfectly at home there! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozzer models Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, The Johnster said: Dem's da fellas to be sure they are 'an all, at all at all, Moz (I have no idea why I typed that in Oirish). Nice shot; took me a minute to realise what the foreground is, and the hoppers look perfectly at home there! yes the photo is taken on the bridge over the line Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingsignalman Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 On 29/09/2019 at 13:46, Fat Controller said: Most of it would have been scrapped, being life-expired, and unfitted; the wagon works on the systems in the North-East especially, were adept at prolonging the life-spans of wagons beyond that planned. I think the Onllwyn site in South Wales retained NCB- liveried ex-BR hoppers into the 1990s, and perhaps beyond. Regarding the above comment, at Sutton Manor Colliery near St Helens was this 16t Min fitted with open spoked wheels. Photo taken 13/2/1982. (this is a better scan than the ones that appeared a while ago in my thread on Sutton Manor colliery. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 On 29/09/2019 at 23:06, Fat Controller said: Paul Bartlett's site, as ever, has some useful stuff:- https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/cwmcokeworksinternalwagons https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brodsworthcolliery https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/cynheidreinternalwagon https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/onllywncolliery are just a few of the sites covered. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=ncb Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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