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Lacathedrale

Tandem three-way and a diamond (sanity check)

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Hi there,

 

I've put together a track formation which I think works - the scale is O-MF based on B6 geometry:

 

image.png.7794d145678fcb675a9f75a679875604.png

 

I believe I've done what needs to be done with regard to the timbering and rail changes (i.e. super long check rail on the middle road, short wing-rail on the leftmost vee, etc.) but just wanted a quick sanity check before I treat it as gospel and move forward if anyone here can cast a quick look at the above and make sure I've not made any egregious mistakes!

 

Cheers!

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Hi William,

 

The check rails for the middle crossing need to extend further to the left (at yellow):

 

tandem_checks.png.6c9f8da6721389b7f7c3485739c1cf9d.png

 

The lower one will need some filing to fit up close behind the running rail.

 

(If you draw a line square across the rails from the knuckle area of a crossing, you can see where the wheels need to be fully under the control of the check rail, i.e. beyond the lead-in flared section.)

 

The wing rail end at red needs shortening to ensure that it is clear of wheel flanges on the running rail. The end probably needs to be about mid-way between the timbers to be sure.

 

Otherwise that's very good, with neat timbering and all the crossing noses properly supported. Did you do that tandem from scratch, or use the auto function in Templot?

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

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Thank you Martin, I can't actually make the red circled wing rail end any shorter - I do understand the principle however, so this seems like it'll have to be a post-print modification to the template. I see what you mean about the yellow circles now - cheers!

 

I built this using the auto function with some tweaks afterwards. I'm really far away from being a wizard at Templot but I've been using it on and off now for long enough I can generally get around - different kinds of snaking, pegging and joining up disparate templates does somewhat flummox me though.

 

Any time O-MF comes up, it seems that you're happy to help out - so for this one I just wanted to check - the minimum radius on this layout is through the right hand route of that tandem - just around 4'. The 'main' loco on the layout would be my little Y6 shunter (something like 7' wheelbase!) and I'm not planning on anything larger than a J15 navigating the layout ever, Presumably with enough slop on the middle axle this should be fine still laid to O-MF instead of GOG-Fine?

 

Cheers!

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1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said:

Thank you Martin, I can't actually make the red circled wing rail end any shorter - I do understand the principle however, so this seems like it'll have to be a post-print modification to the template. I see what you mean about the yellow circles now - cheers!

 

Presumably with enough slop on the middle axle this should be fine still laid to O-MF instead of GOG-Fine?

 

Hi William,

 

To shorten the wing rail further you must shorten the flare length first. Then you will be able to shorten the rail. I ought perhaps to swap those button positions to make that clearer. To get the maximum clearance you might also want to change to a machined flare instead of a bent end on the rail:

 

short_wings1.png.6134d9cb724308617710497bf817b1e5.png

 

 

The absolute minimum is to have the straight part just past the nose of the vee, say to the centre of the "A" timber:

 

short_wings.png.f84046f016f006cf6687d9f203dd156a.png

 

 

Don't change to GOG-F. What you can do is add some gauge widening if needed to the bottom curved rail. When adding gauge widening, the flangeway gap increases by the same amount. In other words you move the stock rail but the check rail stays put at the correct distance from the crossing:

 

gauge_widened_check.png.988c828c52f311b92e2854315107523c.png

 

(That's why proper track-builders use a separate check gauge, and not those silly multi-slot roller gauges provided by the trade.)

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

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That's very kind Martin, thank you - I'm not quite sure where to enable the gauge widening - is it just opening the template and gauge -> modify -> modify track gauge?

 

Cheers!

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11 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

Thanks, I was thinking there was some specific way to do it in Templot just for the sake of completeness!

 

Sorry, there isn't a specific function in Templot to provide gauge-widening. It is usually only a fraction of a mm and would hardly notice on the template -- most users are content to use the 3-point track gauge to create gauge-widening automatically on sharp curves.

 

Like most things, it can be done if you want it on the template by using multiple partial templates. Not easy to do because it varies along the rail according to radius. Having split out the rail onto a partial template you could use the slewing function to progressively increase the gauge, and then again on another partial template to reduce it.

 

I will perhaps produce an example just to prove it can be done. smile.gif

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

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A related question, which way round do the three point gauges go? With the single centre bit inside or outside the curve?

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I make my own track in P4, unfortunately my skill set doesn't extend to Templot, but this thread goes to show how much more there is to track than just the 4' 8 1/2 "gauge!

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13 hours ago, roythebus said:

A related question, which way round do the three point gauges go? With the single centre bit inside or outside the curve?

Fot the avoidance of doubt, inside.

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13 hours ago, jf2682 said:

I make my own track in P4, unfortunately my skill set doesn't extend to Templot, but this thread goes to show how much more there is to track than just the 4' 8 1/2 "gauge!

 

Templot has changed over the years, there is no skill required now (thanks to Martin's excellent software skills) in producing straight turnouts, diamonds, slips, 3 ways, crossovers etc as their production is automated. If you can post on here you have the skills required. In fact the design is now the simple process, building is where the skills are now

 

Things like curving a turnout and joining a few templates together amount to a similar amount of reading that posting a photo in a thread

 

I am not trying to belittle either the subject or the person, but just explain the advances Martin has achieved over the past few years. Do have another look I think you will be impressed

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Good morning, like jf2682 I also make my own track in P4 and I don't use Templot because I don't know how to! Simple as that! I'm a pensioner! However I totally accept that Templot is a valuable and very useful aid in layout planning and tracklaying but I have always managed by looking at the prototype and using memory and photographs as a template. To be quite honest I'm too old and thick to even contemplate using the tool but here's a few examples of recently lifted handbuilt point work from my last train-set, all built built in situ using home made templates, pencil, paper and eye but I accept that using Templot is the way forward! However, I do use 'French curves' in drawing up my model boat frames, hulls and so forth. They can also be helpful in trackwork forming transitional curves in certain situations. Cheers. HL.

 

Edited by harry lamb
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I like the double tandem, half scissors. I don't think I have seen that done before.

 

Templot is a fairly steep learning curve, but nowhere near as bad as it was in issue 0.#.

 

 

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Thanks to Gents who appreciated my trackwork in this thread but like others I'm defecting to WT. Nothing personal of course but I would rather view the forum as a 'lurker', as I did for many years. Regards. HL.   

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On 19/10/2019 at 11:04, harry lamb said:

Good morning, like jf2682 I also make my own track in P4 and I don't use Templot because I don't know how to! Simple as that! I'm a pensioner! However I totally accept that Templot is a valuable and very useful aid in layout planning and tracklaying but I have always managed by looking at the prototype and using memory and photographs as a template. To be quite honest I'm too old and thick to even contemplate using the tool but here's a few examples of recently lifted handbuilt point work from my last train-set, all built built in situ using home made templates, pencil, paper and eye but I accept that using Templot is the way forward! However, I do use 'French curves' in drawing up my model boat frames, hulls and so forth. They can also be helpful in trackwork forming transitional curves in certain situations. Cheers. HL.

 

 

Harry

 

Hopefully you will pick this thread up at some point. In some ways I do understand your reluctance in not wanting to learn new computer skills, I have done likewise at work for a new computer system which has nothing to do with the work I do and as I am retiring in 4 mths I believe its a waste of time and effort. Having said this I use a part at home which is of use

 

So far as Templot goes unlike 15 years ago there are no skills required in making turnouts, crossings, 3 ways or slips. As they all are generated by the system by pressing the correct command button, or just befriend someone who uses Templot as the templates can be sent as a PDF

 

Good luck with WT, but I have looked at it from time to time finding it of little interest

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Hello hayfield, thanks for the reply. Although I'm a little old now but I used to make my living by building 'computers'. Ensconced in a deep vault on the corner of Gracechurch St. and Leadenhall St in the City of London during the early to late eighties I would turn them out by the dozen to whatever specification was required for the City banks I worked for. Building them was easy. After the initial programming I did not have to use them but the programming was simple. I used the software provided to do the job so I'm no stranger to IT. Current IT I am though! I'm not a fool but a practical man and I can still rely on my memory  on what track looked like and how 'deformed' it could become in intensive service in heavily used situations so I can very easily replicate that condition in model form. It is not rocket science.  I like to use code 55 F/B in industrial situations in 4mm. as it looks the business and that 'light' rail was very common in the once very common private sidings. Thankyou Chris Nevard for that and 'Brewery Quay'.  Look, the bottom line is that I am a old fish filleter and barrow lad off the Grimsby fish market which was probably the largest, in mileage terms, of any 'goods shed' in the country! It was a bloody hard life and I loved it.  However, regarding WT and any other 'forums' I reckon I'm throwing the towel in on all of 'em and returning to 'lurking' but I certainly agree that Mr. Wynne 'Templot' is a huge leap into track building and planning. Most modellers I know make good use of it but it's not for me. I'm running out of years! I just build temporary 'shunting planks' every couple of years and I regard it as my 'trainset' in which I can happily while away the hours with a couple of beers. This is an edit. I have been building track to P4 standards now for over 40 years and that standard has never let me down.    

Edited by harry lamb
I missed out the 'in'.
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