RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 25, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2019 Very similar situation on the tramroads of South Wales, of which the best known is the Penydarren but which covered a very large area of the Eastern Glamorgan and Monmouthshire valleys. They varied around the 4' to 4'6" size, and some 'drams', as the vehicles were called, had wheels that could be moved up and down the axles for through running between systems. There is a little known history of early steam locos on some of these, although horse power was the norm. The Penydarren had locos with collapsible chimneys to pass through low archways, and the first ever articulated loco, all before the Stockton and Darlington was up and running. The main problems encountered, as in the North East, were breakages of the brittle cast iron rails. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2019 Didn't some of the quarry type railways have double flanged wheels, loose on the axles due to variable gauge of lightly laid track? Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 This is really imaginary rolling Stock rather than an Imaginary Locomotive... The Articulated Mk3 DBSO: It's about the same length as 3 standard Mk3 coaches and also works as a driving trailer.... plus it's articulated! No logical reason I can think for it, but it is compatible with standard Mk2 and Mk3 stock so could replace the equivalent of 3x TSOs and a DVT at the end of a push-pull set. Formations from short Cross Country to full Intercity: Possible use for some old Hornby shorties maybe?... That's all I've got for today. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted January 25, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2019 I like the idea of modern quad-arts! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 I like the idea of modern quad-arts! Not quite what I was thinking.... but I like your thinking! Modern suburban quad-arts might be better based on mk3 emu bodies with centre doors rather than end doors. Leave the thought with me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted January 25, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) Well there was a briefly mooted plan after the Great War to extend the government subsidies, that had been propping up the likes of the Londonderry and Lough Swilly Railway in Northern Ireland, to the rest of the UK and fund a series of light and narrow gauge railways in rural parts. Highlights included the 'Argyllshire Light Railway, which would have been a narrow gauge line running from Dalmally to Southend at the bottom of the Kintyre Peninsula. I invite you to examine the distance between those two points to understand the... uniqueness of this proposal. 160km by road, according to Google maps. But why not? Is it really such a daft proposition, there are Swiss metre gauge lines that must be approaching that sort of length. Population density might be another matter though Edited January 25, 2019 by rodent279 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2019 160km by road, according to Google maps. But why not? Is it really such a daft proposition, there are Swiss metre gauge lines that must be approaching that sort of length. Population density might be another matter though Matterhorn Gotthard Bahn is 144km end to end. The Rhaetian Bahn has a total of 384km made up of several routes. keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 I believe that the 2’3” - 2’4” gauge if lines like the Talyllyn and GVT was a response to legal provisions specifying a gauge not exceeding half the “standard” gauge “Standard” appears to have developed from a general practice of tramways being between 4’ and 4’8” gauge. 2’8” or 2’9” appears to have been an early trial which didn’t catch on; Fletcher Jennings built locomotives to this gauge, presumably to fit existing systems. Quite why nominal 2’ gauges, or very slightly less, became so common, I don’t know. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2019 Plenty to choose from here >> http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_track_gauges Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLBH Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Most of the routes proposed in 1918 by the Rural Transport (Scotland) Committee were to be 2 foot gauge - 2 foot 6 inch was better on technical grounds, but so much war surplus 2 foot gauge equipment was available that it was recommended. A fairly significant mileage was being considered, and Dalmally to Southend wasn't the only fairly long one. A couple of standard gauge branches were also proposed, the only one I can remember offhand was Thurso to Scrabster. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo675 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 This is really imaginary rolling Stock rather than an Imaginary Locomotive... The Articulated Mk3 DBSO: Intercity Mk3 DBSO Articulated.jpg It's about the same length as 3 standard Mk3 coaches and also works as a driving trailer.... plus it's articulated! No logical reason I can think for it, but it is compatible with standard Mk2 and Mk3 stock so could replace the equivalent of 3x TSOs and a DVT at the end of a push-pull set. Formations from short Cross Country to full Intercity: Intercity Mk3 DBSO Articulated Formations.jpg Possible use for some old Hornby shorties maybe?... That's all I've got for today. Hi Mr Goldfish, Not sure if you are aware of the following but I follow these two threads and think you may appreciate them also: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/130605-imaginary-rolling-stock/page-4 https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128805-fictional-units-not-boardrooms/page-2 I particularly like the GWR mail van with GPO pick up apparatus. Gibbo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2019 Most of the routes proposed in 1918 by the Rural Transport (Scotland) Committee were to be 2 foot gauge - 2 foot 6 inch was better on technical grounds, but so much war surplus 2 foot gauge equipment was available that it was recommended. A fairly significant mileage was being considered, and Dalmally to Southend wasn't the only fairly long one. A couple of standard gauge branches were also proposed, the only one I can remember offhand was Thurso to Scrabster. Dalmally to Southend is a heck of a long line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2019 2’8” or 2’9” appears to have been an early trial which didn’t catch on; Fletcher Jennings built locomotives to this gauge, presumably to fit existing systems. If my memory serves me well (cue song.....) there used to be an early locomotive of 2' 8" (?) gauge in the Science Museum Birmingham, the only surviving steam locomotive made in Brum. I don't know whether it made it to the Think Tank. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northmoor Posted January 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2019 If my memory serves me well (cue song.....) there used to be an early locomotive of 2' 8" (?) gauge in the Science Museum Birmingham, the only surviving steam locomotive made in Brum. I don't know whether it made it to the Think Tank. With my over-developed memory for the unimportant, I can tell you that was "SECUNDUS", the last surviving loco from the 2' 8" Furzebrook Railway on the Isle of Purbeck (and beautifully photographed before closure by Ivo Peters). It was built by Bellis & Seekings, not Fletcher Jennings, who are probably best known for "TALYLLYN". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Didn't some of the quarry type railways have double flanged wheels, loose on the axles due to variable gauge of lightly laid track? Keith yeah, the double flanged wheels sat loose on the axles held on with pins through the ends, what comes to mind is the Nantlle tramway https://goo.gl/images/vt17Ec Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted January 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2019 With my over-developed memory for the unimportant, I can tell you that was "SECUNDUS", the last surviving loco from the 2' 8" Furzebrook Railway on the Isle of Purbeck (and beautifully photographed before closure by Ivo Peters). It was built by Bellis & Seekings, not Fletcher Jennings, who are probably best known for "TALYLLYN". Now on loan to the Swanage Railway and on display at Corfe Castle Goods Shed: https://locoyard.com/2013/05/25/secundus/ and in 2010: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) With my over-developed memory for the unimportant, I can tell you that was "SECUNDUS", the last surviving loco from the 2' 8" Furzebrook Railway on the Isle of Purbeck (and beautifully photographed before closure by Ivo Peters). It was built by Bellis & Seekings, not Fletcher Jennings, who are probably best known for "TALYLLYN". Thank you. Bellis & Morcom (the later incarnation) kept going through my mind but I couldn't track down the loco on wiki It seems to be at Corfe Castle now. The Science museum got rid of a lot of stock when they transformed into theThink Tank. I enquired a long time ago what happened to the Orchestrion (A giant music box/fairground organ like machine) as it was IMHO one of the star exhibits in the music collection. They gave it away! Keith Edit posted as Pete put up the pics Edited January 25, 2019 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo675 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 The Science museum got rid of a lot of stock when they transformed into theThink Tank. I enquired a long time ago what happened to the Orchestrion (A giant music box/fairground organ like machine) as it was IMHO one of the star exhibits in the music collection. They gave it away! Keith Hi Keith, It would seem that once that they have destroyed our culture we will have nothing left to fight them for. Gibbo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john new Posted January 25, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2019 Thank you. Bellis & Morcom (the later incarnation) kept going through my mind but I couldn't track down the loco on wiki It seems to be at Corfe Castle now. The Science museum got rid of a lot of stock when they transformed into theThink Tank. I enquired a long time ago what happened to the Orchestrion (A giant music box/fairground organ like machine) as it was IMHO one of the star exhibits in the music collection. They gave it away! Keith Edit posted as Pete put up the pics Secundus is at Corfe Castle safely under cover in the goods shed. Appropriate as it worked in Purbeck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Secundus has always seemed to me, to have an air of Roland Emmett about it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted January 26, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2019 (edited) No photos or drawings, I'm afraid, but here's one for you. BR decide to build a small fleet of dual voltage locos for inter-regional freight & passenger service between SR & LM regions. Result-a class 73 devoid of engine, and with a transformer/rectifier installed instead. Single pantograph, 100mph capability, MU gear. Another - Doncaster is given a free reign in styling it's AC electrics, and the AL5's emerge looking like a lengthened, twin pantograph version of a class 71. Another one. Searching for a low cost replacement for ageing class 76's on the recently reprieved Woodhead route passenger service, BR converts the 10 class 74's into straight electric 1500v D.C. machines. Along with 15 of the 71's also converted, the 25 locos of class 78/0 & 78/1 survive to be repainted into Regional Railways livery, then Northern Spirit livery. They finally succumb to replacement in the early 2000's by a batch of 1500v DC/ 25kv AC Electrostars. These are used on a through service between Sheffield and Liverpool/Manchester Airport. Edited January 26, 2019 by rodent279 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62613 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Another one. Searching for a low cost replacement for ageing class 76's on the recently reprieved Woodhead route passenger service, BR converts the 10 class 74's into straight electric 1500v D.C. machines. Along with 15 of the 71's also converted, the 25 locos of class 78/0 & 78/1 survive to be repainted into Regional Railways livery, then Northern Spirit livery. They finally succumb to replacement in the early 2000's by a batch of 1500v DC/ 25kv AC Electrostars. These are used on a through service between Sheffield and Liverpool/Manchester Airport. More likely that Woodhead would have been converted to 25kV a.c. if it had survived, as happened to the Hadfield 'stub', but a superb idea nonetheless! I'm trying to imagine catching a 323 stopper to Sheffield. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted January 27, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2019 More likely that Woodhead would have been converted to 25kV a.c. if it had survived, as happened to the Hadfield 'stub', but a superb idea nonetheless! I'm trying to imagine catching a 323 stopper to Sheffield. Oh aye, pure flight of fantasy, but I'd argue that's what's best about railway modelling, you can do what you want. Maybe a batch of 86's converted to dual voltage would have been a better bet? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 More likely that Woodhead would have been converted to AC and perhaps the 77s would have survived to be converted to AC. I wonder how different they would have looked with a transformer, rectifier, and braking resistors squeezed in! No AC regenerative braking in those days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 27, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) More likely that Woodhead would have been converted to AC and perhaps the 77s would have survived to be converted to AC. I wonder how different they would have looked with a transformer, rectifier, and braking resistors squeezed in! No AC regenerative braking in those days. I wonder what they would look like with a single Stone-Faiveley pantograph? Also they should be painted in the new electric blue with white cab roof Keith Edited January 27, 2019 by melmerby 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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