Imaginary Locomotives

[62613]

On 20/03/2019 at 18:28, Satan's Goldfish said:

Bit of a labour of love this. Revisiting the Mikado arrangement, it looks much better using the coronation cylinders rather than the 9f cylinders and the positioning keeps all the drive parts the same lengths as on a coronation. There's still the space to add another trailing axle beneath the fire box, but if there's no weight reasoning then I'm not going to change it just for the sake of it. Tackled making the tender convincingly slightly longer too... not that there was any reason to do that!

 

Another possible problem with this; wouldn't the cylinders have to be inclined slightly, to get the connecting rods and cranks in the correct positions at top and bottom centres?

 

[The Johnster]

15 hours ago, Corbs said:

Ahhh makes sense, I couldn't remember what period these were designed in and if the design had the newer type of truck. I mocked this type up a while back for the Ivatt monsters. Also roller bearings on the tender.

I embiggened the chimney too.

 

 

How cromulent...

[The Johnster]

4 hours ago, 62613 said:

Another possible problem with this; wouldn't the cylinders have to be inclined slightly, to get the connecting rods and cranks in the correct positions at top and bottom centres?

 

Or possibly lowered.  The perennial problem with big engines to run within the British loading gauge is squeezing everything in with fractions of inches to spare, which is of course one of the things that made them such a challenge to design successfully.  

[Gibbo675]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

How cromulent...

Hi Johnster,

 

I would go as far as to say copacetic !

 

Thanks for enlarging my vocabulary,

 

Gibbo.

[The Johnster]

Thank you likewise for enlarging mine!

[62613]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Or possibly lowered.  The perennial problem with big engines to run within the British loading gauge is squeezing everything in with fractions of inches to spare, which is of course one of the things that made them such a challenge to design successfully.  

I thought about that. How far can you lower them before the leading truck fouls them?

[The Johnster]

You’d have to know not only the distance the leading bogie is below the cylinders, which may differ between the inside and outside cylinders, but the upward limit of travel for the bogie, which is compensated and must be allowed to bounce around a bit and which moves radially and has sideplay as well, and allow for all that!  A clearance on the blueprint may not be sufficient to prevent impacts between the bogie and the bottom of the cylinders in service...

[Gibbo675]

37 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

You’d have to know not only the distance the leading bogie is below the cylinders, which may differ between the inside and outside cylinders, but the upward limit of travel for the bogie, which is compensated and must be allowed to bounce around a bit and which moves radially and has sideplay as well, and allow for all that!  A clearance on the blueprint may not be sufficient to prevent impacts between the bogie and the bottom of the cylinders in service...

Hi Johnster,

 

That's easy enough to sort out, if you know minimum curve and the axle centres you may then work out the versine of the chords at the double of axle centres marked from the centre of the fixed wheel base.

 

Gibbo. 

[Flying Pig]

19 hours ago, Corbs said:

Ahhh makes sense, I couldn't remember what period these were designed in and if the design had the newer type of truck. I mocked this type up a while back for the Ivatt monsters. Also roller bearings on the tender.

I embiggened the chimney too.

 

 

 

Love it - it somehow looks much more credible with the modified rear bogie.  If I squint at the image, I can see it in a post war black and silver livery to match the diesels.

 

[Zomboid]

It would also look good in something like the N&W paint scheme as carried by J Class #611.

 

Looks much better as a 4-6-4 than a 4-6-2, IMO.

[92220]

On 15/03/2019 at 17:35, Flying Pig said:

 

Nice idea, so here's the same again but with the excellent 2A boiler (Rebuilt Scot and Patriot) which I guess is what the LMS would have used if they'd actually built it.  Slightly shorter and fatter boiler and firebox results in a shorter engine with the original 8F coupled wheel spacing. I did mean to use Corbs's 8-wheel tender, but copied the wrong image. However, as the overall length is similar to a Scot, I think it looks ok with a 6-wheeler.  Definitely needs some sandbox fillers but I ran out of PC time.

 

 

 

I fancy trying to build that. One day, perhaps.

Iain

[Traintresta]

I really fancy building a 4-8-0 but have yet to decide on the details, however, the stanieresque on above is very well proportioned. I like the inclusion of the Ivatt style cab although you could probably get away with a normal stanier cab with such small drivers.

 

I wonder how an Ivatt version would look, I bet it would appear very American.

[rodent279]

Fraid I can't do the artwork, but the 4-8-0 8F leads me to think how about a 4-8-0 County? 

[Corbs]

I made this some time ago, Hawksworth 4-8-0 4-cylinder.

[Flying Pig]

6 hours ago, Traintresta said:

I really fancy building a 4-8-0 but have yet to decide on the details, however, the stanieresque on above is very well proportioned. I like the inclusion of the Ivatt style cab although you could probably get away with a normal stanier cab with such small drivers.

 

I wonder how an Ivatt version would look, I bet it would appear very American.

 

Late LMS is Caprotti Black Fives and 4MTs with full American-influenced 'austerity' styling, but it's also more conventionally styled Black Fives and Rebuilt Patriots, so you could go either way according to taste and make a good case. The drivers aren't really an issue - the lower cab side sheet overlapped the rear driver on many LMS designs. What I think should be included are the distinctive post-war cab side windows that appeared on Rebuilt Patriots and some late Black Fives.

 

[Corbs]

7 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Late LMS is Caprotti Black Fives and 4MTs with full American-influenced 'austerity' styling, but it's also more conventionally styled Black Fives and Rebuilt Patriots, so you could go either way according to taste and make a good case. The drivers aren't really an issue - the lower cab side sheet overlapped the rear driver on many LMS designs. What I think should be included are the distinctive post-war cab side windows that appeared on Rebuilt Patriots and some late Black Fives.

 

 

I am quite fond of the 2 final Black 5s, the ultimate iteration of the type.

Roller bearings, caprotti valve gear, Ivatt cab, double chimney

[Corbs]

5 hours ago, Mersey507003 said:

Hi Corbs

 

I was wondering if you had done or thought of doing an article for BRM or Railway Modeller on how you made your locos.

I am particularly interested in the GWR 4-8-0 and how it was made as I am thinking of trying something similar myself when funds allow for me to get the required parts for the project.

Thanks Mr Mersey! Do you mean the photoshopped ones? I did think about doing a timelapse screen capture showing how they are made up out of lots of different parts.

[Flying Pig]

35 minutes ago, Corbs said:

I am quite fond of the 2 final Black 5s, the ultimate iteration of the type.

Roller bearings, caprotti valve gear, Ivatt cab, double chimney

 

I wonder whether Caprotti gear could be arranged for the divided drive of the Coronations? I've several times read claims that the valve events on these engines were not quite right, presumably due to reliance on rocker arms to drive the inside valves. Dream loco - Caprotti super-Coronation with GPCS and mechanical stoker, an LMR Red Devil.  Could have run right through to electrification on the WCML.

 

Meanwhile on the subject of 4-8-0s, here's one I did ages ago, probably on this thread:

 

[RLBH]

1 hour ago, Flying Pig said:

Dream loco - Caprotti super-Coronation with GPCS and mechanical stoker, an LMR Red Devil.  Could have run right through to electrification on the WCML.

That's not so far from some of the LMS/LMR thoughts on future Pacifics in the 1938-1948 timeframe.

[Traintresta]

10 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Late LMS is Caprotti Black Fives and 4MTs with full American-influenced 'austerity' styling, but it's also more conventionally styled Black Fives and Rebuilt Patriots, so you could go either way according to taste and make a good case. The drivers aren't really an issue - the lower cab side sheet overlapped the rear driver on many LMS designs. What I think should be included are the distinctive post-war cab side windows that appeared on Rebuilt Patriots and some late Black Fives.

 

I suppose in fairness th3 big change to make this more austere would be the running boards at the front losing the curve and being split in two. Probably an Ivatt style tender to match the cab better? I don't like how the steam pipes are so visible and ugly on the caprotti black 5's but I do like the version which high running boards as it matches Ivatt's class 4.

 

Would caprotti valve gear be of any use on this?

[Traintresta]

2 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

I wonder whether Caprotti gear could be arranged for the divided drive of the Coronations? I've several times read claims that the valve events on these engines were not quite right, presumably due to reliance on rocker arms to drive the inside valves. Dream loco - Caprotti super-Coronation with GPCS and mechanical stoker, an LMR Red Devil.  Could have run right through to electrification on the WCML.

 

Meanwhile on the subject of 4-8-0s, here's one I did ages ago, probably on this thread:

 

Absolutely awesome! Stanier could have considered th I instead of the P2's.

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, Traintresta said:

I suppose in fairness th3 big change to make this more austere would be the running boards at the front losing the curve and being split in two. Probably an Ivatt style tender to match the cab better? I don't like how the steam pipes are so visible and ugly on the caprotti black 5's but I do like the version which high running boards as it matches Ivatt's class 4.

 

Would caprotti valve gear be of any use on this?

Personally, I like the chunky steam pipes. Didn't the BR Standards essentially have Ivatt style cabs and running boards, but tidied up?

[Traintresta]

3 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

Personally, I like the chunky steam pipes. Didn't the BR Standards essentially have Ivatt style cabs and running boards, but tidied up?

Yes they did, but the tidying up of the running boards hid the steam pipes quite well. I’m surprised some of the larger BR standards (such as the class 6, 7 and 8) didn’t get the V front cab like the A4, P2 and V2. 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Traintresta said:

Yes they did, but the tidying up of the running boards hid the steam pipes quite well. I’m surprised some of the larger BR standards (such as the class 6, 7 and 8) didn’t get the V front cab like the A4, P2 and V2. 

I thought the V front cab on the GWR King  "Plasticine" streamliner suited it.

None of the other protuberances did.

Edited March 24, 2019 by melmerby

[Owd Bob]

As suggested a while ago on another thread.....mi coats on and f'ambulance is booked.