Imaginary Locomotives

[rockershovel]

14 hours ago, AlfaZagato said:

Seeing that Hurricane, I wonder how you could update l'Aigle?

 

Theres a difference between misconceived, and making no sense at all...  http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/aigle/aigle.htm.  

 

What was the purpose of the “upper boiler”? It seems to be simply a rather inefficient radiator? 

 

Perhaps these chaps might have an opinion? https://www.cramptonlocomotivetrust.org.uk/blog/. I have, in the past, tended to regard such projects as unrealistic but with Lyn in service, I’m prepared to believe pretty much anything at this point. I would LOVE to see a Crampton at speed...

Edited August 14, 2019 by rockershovel

[brack]

I believe the back end of Drummond's bug survives. Is there no rebuild project for it?

[melmerby]

7 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Aerolite was designed and built specifically to haul the NER director's saloon, and did so successfully for many years.

 

The Turbomotive was used on a specific diagram for most of it's life, a heavy Liverpool express and return, presumably because this would suit the requirement for continuous steady high output that a turbine needs to be at it's most efficient and because that would limit the number of staff that you needed to train up to be able to maintain and work the thing.  The loco was rebuilt as a conventional Princess when the boiler wore out, but this does not mean that it was unsuccessful in service, merely that it was not considered worth following up in post war operating conditions

The usual reason given for rebuilding 6202 is that in 1949 the turbine failed and needed replacement and it wasn't deemed economical.

[melmoth]

13 minutes ago, brack said:

I believe the back end of Drummond's bug survives. Is there no rebuild project for it?

 

It's in a garden at Swanage and can be seen from Swanage Railway trains

[PhilJ W]

22 minutes ago, brack said:

I believe the back end of Drummond's bug survives. Is there no rebuild project for it?

 

7 minutes ago, melmoth said:

 

It's in a garden at Swanage and can be seen from Swanage Railway trains

I understood that the body has now been recovered and is being restored.

[melmoth]

2 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

 

I understood that the body has now been recovered and is being restored.

 

Ah, I've not been over there this year. It was still visible last September.

[PhilJ W]

1 minute ago, melmoth said:

 

Ah, I've not been over there this year. It was still visible last September.

That was a few years ago so perhaps the restoration wasn't proceded with for any number of reasons.

 

[brack]

I did wonder about reusing the front half of the bug to make a small wheeled 440t, maybe 4'8.5" or 5' wheels. I wonder how it'd compare to an lner D51?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

16 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

That sounded quite low for rolling resistance on the flat, but when I had a play with the numbers, based on Wardale's calculations here (5AT site chosen as it causes satisfying amounts of rage on RMweb, rather than for any technical reason), I got pretty much the same for a Duchess with 500 tons: I am sorry ever to have doubted you.

The GWR's 'express' benchmark set by Mr Churchward was 2 tons at the drawbar at 70mph. That's only 400 horse, and the GWR never really needed more than that to run express by the standards of the day, thus the stagnation.

[Clive Mortimore]

4 hours ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

Last one on the Deltic unit. Sorry, my MS paint artistic skills didn't extended to an inverse blue/grey like the prototype HST

 

I've altered the original to have a DBSO, and the locomotive now has double doors for access to equipment at that end... just because. 

 

Brought forward in time, it's gained a couple of mk3s for a buffet and scotrail style CO for updated 1st class accommodation. 

 

Taken back in time, the air con is gone and it's a bit less glamorous in reggie rail, but probably still better long distance than a 156 or 158!

 

And finally, possible original build style? No air con, blue grey, and a mk1 buffet! The DBSO has become a DBFK here too.

 

 

THAT IS ALL.

So where is the 1960s maroon version with Mk1s?

[rodent279]

29 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

The GWR's 'express' benchmark set by Mr Churchward was 2 tons at the drawbar at 70mph. That's only 400 horse, and the GWR never really needed more than that to run express by the standards of the day, thus the stagnation.

I make 2 tons at 70mph equal to 624kW, or 836hp.

Still not an enormous amount though.

[Michael Edge]

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

The usual reason given for rebuilding 6202 is that in 1949 the turbine failed and needed replacement and it wasn't deemed economical.

46202's boiler went into the pool, one of three domeless boilers which circulated among the remaining Princesses.

[Satan's Goldfish]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

So where is the 1960s maroon version with Mk1s?

 

Oh fffffffffffffffff......

 

Not sure how well Maroon will sit on a Deltic... use your imagination

[RLBH]

39 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

I make 2 tons at 70mph equal to 624kW, or 836hp.

Feeding that back into the resistance calculations linked above - that's a 350 ton train, i.e. ten coaches, and drawbar power. Add another 4.85hp per ton of locomotive, assuming you're on the level.

 

As soon as you start adding hills to the equation, it all becomes much more difficult. A 1-in-200 gradient takes the drawbar power needed for a 350 ton train to do 70mph from 836 horsepower to 1,584 horsepower - and another 2.1 horsepower for each ton of locomotive!

[rodent279]

3 minutes ago, RLBH said:

Feeding that back into the resistance calculations linked above - that's a 350 ton train, i.e. ten coaches, and drawbar power. Add another 4.85hp per ton of locomotive, assuming you're on the level.

 

As soon as you start adding hills to the equation, it all becomes much more difficult. A 1-in-200 gradient takes the drawbar power needed for a 350 ton train to do 70mph from 836 horsepower to 1,584 horsepower - and another 2.1 horsepower for each ton of locomotive!

Thanks, that was my next step!

So you can easily see that Shap with 11 on is going to need 2,500hp +, and also why electrics, with 4000+ hp available at the rail at 50-odd mph, could sail over with speeds in the 80's.

[rockershovel]

32 minutes ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

 

Oh fffffffffffffffff......

 

Not sure how well Maroon will sit on a Deltic... use your imagination

 

No..... just, no....

[RLBH]

25 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

So you can easily see that Shap with 11 on is going to need 2,500hp +, and also why electrics, with 4000+ hp available at the rail at 50-odd mph, could sail over with speeds in the 80's. 

In fact, a Coronation with a 385 ton train balances at about 42mph on 1 in 75 - to beat that, you need to mortgage the boiler or trade off momentum for height. Which of course you do, in practice, since very few gradients on the British railway network are long and steep enough that you can't do one or both of those.

 

A Class 87 electric, with twice the power at half the weight, balances at 83mph on the same train. To match that with a Duchess, you could only have a trailing load of 28 tons - which might be enough for the dynamometer car and some technical staff, but certainly nothing earning revenue.

[rodent279]

15 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

 

No..... just, no....

Oh I don't know..... Maybe quasi-Coronation maroon livery, with gold stripes.... Might just work.

[The Johnster]

8 hours ago, rockershovel said:

 

Aerolite seems to have been, in succession, an exhibition piece then two different locos (the second passing through so many rebuilds as to be virtually three different locos), the final incarnation being scrapped within a week of its users’ retirement. An extraordinary story, but not, it seems, unique https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSWR_F9_class 

 

Watching the video of that Swedish 2-8-0, it does rather seem that once stopped, getting it moving again is a considerable undertaking. That might be ok for a loco built to work a dedicated route but would be of no use in general traffic. 

For another 'pet' loco, check out Rhymney Railway no.16, a tiny 2-4-0T which, while being so pretty as to be practically loco porn, was well past it's sell by and of no practical use but was the favourite of the railway's CME Cornelius Lundie (also of this parish).  He was apparently something of a character, not the first bloke you'd choose to pick an argument with, and he generally got his way.  The loco blocked a bay in Caerphilly works for many years and was scrapped, with some enthusiasm, as soon as the old man kicked the bucket.

[AlfaZagato]

@rockershovel  I imagine that you could apply the Franco-Crosti patent with some success to the l'Aigle layout.   Perhaps a 4-6-4 with 10-foot drivers?   Tall, narrow streamlining to cover both barrels, and a wedge cab to give the crew a wonder view of the wheels. 

[rockershovel]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

For another 'pet' loco, check out Rhymney Railway no.16, a tiny 2-4-0T which, while being so pretty as to be practically loco porn, was well past it's sell by and of no practical use but was the favourite of the railway's CME Cornelius Lundie (also of this parish).  He was apparently something of a character, not the first bloke you'd choose to pick an argument with, and he generally got his way.  The loco blocked a bay in Caerphilly works for many years and was scrapped, with some enthusiasm, as soon as the old man kicked the bucket.

 

I can’t find a pic of it anywhere! 

 

I do like 2-4-0s, though. They are a quintessentially Victorian design and always look rather “something”... the Beattie Well Tanks are really rather good, like the Adams Radial Tanks, the epitome of their kind..

[The Johnster]

56 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

 

I can’t find a pic of it anywhere! 

 

I do like 2-4-0s, though. They are a quintessentially Victorian design and always look rather “something”... the Beattie Well Tanks are really rather good, like the Adams Radial Tanks, the epitome of their kind..

There ware photos in E R Mountford’s ‘Caerphilly Works’ book if you can get 

hold of one, side tank with inside cyls and outside framed pony.  

[Northroader]

Here you go, from the RCTS “Locos of the GWR”. There were four of them built by the Vulcan Foundry in the 1860s as tender engines to run the RR passenger trains. 16 was rebuilt as a side tank, and survived longer than the other three, 7-9, which were rebuilt as saddle tanks. 

[Clive Mortimore]

3 hours ago, rockershovel said:

 

No..... just, no....

Yes, maroon Deltic, with black and gold lining.

[rodent279]

3 hours ago, Northroader said:

Here you go, from the RCTS “Locos of the GWR”. There were four of them built by the Vulcan Foundry in the 1860s as tender engines to run the RR passenger trains. 16 was rebuilt as a side tank, and survived longer than the other three, 7-9, which were rebuilt as saddle tanks. 

Was the RR an air brake railway?