Satan's Goldfish Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Not sure if I've created an abomination or not. Always enjoy playing around with 2-8-2s, realised I'd not actually done the obvious and rammed a Brit and a 9f together. Lord Nelson tender chassis just for giggles. Not convinced it looks quite right though. Have I missed something obvious? 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, DavidB-AU said: It was being dragged for the test. Cheers David The simple numerical indicated horsepower for steam locomotives at steady speed calculator functions quite well . The Tornado train did 45,4meter per second. Train was 210m long including Tornado and 67 Train mass was 573 tons all inclusive. Rolling takes 385kW Disturbing air takes 1570kW or 2650 indicated horsepower. Maximum steady ihp for a V2 on test plant was 1990 ihp A Britania gave2200 ihp on rollers and a LMS pacific 2550. One can use more steam than max steady evaporation rate but pressure goes down fast. Tornado did not run 101,6 mph for many minutes so it is not unrealistic that Tornado ca do 2650 ihp for a short while. The LMS calculated over 3200 ihp when they measured 2511 drawbar horsepower in a short burst. The difference between drawbar horsepower and indicated was asumed to be machine friction,locomotive rolling resistance and locomotive air resistance. I find it more simple to se most of it as total train air resistance. Indicated horsepower steam demand and boiler evaporation are simple to calculate. This method can be used on electric or diesel trains as well. Total train length in m mutiplied by 0,13 (UK normal gauge) 0.15(Berne Gauge) 0.17(US) gives flat plate area in square meters This shall be multipled by 0.5 *air density(1,23kg/m**3)*Velocity cubed and giv ve Watts for airwork. Total train mass (kg)*gravity*0.0015*velocity gives rolling work in Watt Edited September 2, 2019 by Niels 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 13 hours ago, Niels said: Damned. My simple power model shot down in flames But thank You for answering I think your model is still valid. The 67 was only there because NR said so. It wasn't actually necessary for the test, apart from providing power to the Mark 2s. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted September 3, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 3, 2019 Re: the Tornado test, I did an interview with Huw Parker who was on the train (link below) if you are interested, but if not then the TL;DL version: The 67 was only attached to the train in the Northbound direction and was removed at Newcastle when the train was turned around, before 100mph was hit in the southbound direction. The 67 was there to assist with the turning move as it dragged the whole train backwards around a triangle before being uncoupled. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) Thank You Corbs for saving my day. In the interview it is mentioned that a test report was made for the 101,6mph test. Can that be had by the public? A new numerical model run Total train length 190meter making 1420 kW heating of air Total train mass 485000kg making 347 kW oil and rail heating total demand on locomotive 2400 indicated horsepower. We asume that an A1 can do 31410 lbs of steam per hour from 4260 lbs of coal showelled by two firemen. This is the One hour figure from mr Cox/Britania. A V2 used 13.2lbs at best opperating condition and gives 2400 ihp on Tornado if it steams as well as a BR7. The continious 3000lbs/h coal showelled by one unionized fireman makes 24000 lbs steam per hour or ca1800 indicated horsepower. A drag plate area of 0.13squaremeter per meter train and a rolling resistance coefficient 0f 0,0015 gives reasonable estimates of steam train speed possible. Thank You for reading Edited September 3, 2019 by Niels 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted September 4, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 4, 2019 On 03/09/2019 at 09:12, Niels said: Thank You Corbs for saving my day. In the interview it is mentioned that a test report was made for the 101,6mph test. Can that be had by the public? Hi Niels, I have asked Huw for you, I’ve not see the report though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted September 4, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 4, 2019 On 03/09/2019 at 09:12, Niels said: Thank You Corbs for saving my day. In the interview it is mentioned that a test report was made for the 101,6mph test. Can that be had by the public? Hi Niels, I have asked Huw for you, I’ve not see the report though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 40 minutes ago, Corbs said: Hi Niels, I have asked Huw for you, I’ve not see the report though. Hello Corbs Thank You for asking. If it give some figures and analyses like the old BR steam test reports it will be very interesting for an old steam dreamer. I hope it is not considered confidential but can easily understand and accept if it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 came across these while searching for something else, 1:87 scale loco kits by Oriental models "Saddle tank" that isnt a saddle tank, looks like the cab of a pug and the chassis of a kitson dock tank https://www.scalemates.com/kits/oriental-model-0-4-0-saddle-tank--179829 second a diesel vaguely like a drewry, and no i have no idea whats going on with the coupling rods https://www.scalemates.com/kits/oriental-model-diesel-locomotive--179828 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfaZagato Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 The tank looks distinctly like a Japanese locomotive, down to the brass-reverse number plate on the smokebox door. As an English application, could call it an import well tank by a Japanese builder. I think Yamaha was making locomotives in the steam era, but I am likely wrong. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted September 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) These are so reminiscent of Airfix box art one has to wonder at the provenance of the contents... ... and what they looked like when assembled. Edited September 9, 2019 by Compound2632 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted September 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2019 I wonder what track gauge they models are? Japan is generally 3' 6" apart from Shinkansen 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted September 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2019 3 hours ago, AlfaZagato said: The tank looks distinctly like a Japanese locomotive, down to the brass-reverse number plate on the smokebox door. As an English application, could call it an import well tank by a Japanese builder. I think Yamaha was making locomotives in the steam era, but I am likely wrong. Looks like the Airfix Drewry shunter I know they did the Pug which is what I presume the first is intended to be. it has the right number! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted September 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2019 3 hours ago, sir douglas said: came across these while searching for something else, 1:87 scale loco kits by Oriental models "Saddle tank" that isnt a saddle tank, looks like the cab of a pug and the chassis of a kitson dock tank https://www.scalemates.com/kits/oriental-model-0-4-0-saddle-tank--179829 second a diesel vaguely like a drewry, and no i have no idea whats going on with the coupling rods https://www.scalemates.com/kits/oriental-model-diesel-locomotive--179828 The steam locomotive appears to have a tender, and a BR totem on the boiler. 6 minutes ago, melmerby said: I wonder what track gauge they models are? Japan is generally 3' 6" apart from Shinkansen It says HO so I assume that they are 16.5 mm gauge. I wonder if these kits are obtainable today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted September 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2019 They're described as HO gauge, so presumably the models are 16.5 mm gauge. But do you actually think what's in the box looks any different to the Airfix (now Dapol) L&Y pug and Drewry shunter? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted September 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: They're described as HO gauge, so presumably the models are 16.5 mm gauge. But do you actually think what's in the box looks any different to the Airfix (now Dapol) L&Y pug and Drewry shunter? In japan that would be 1:80 which would mean the track is closer to the 3' 6" gauge than if it was 1:87 Actually I would bet they are Airfix models with fantasy pictures on the box. Edited September 9, 2019 by melmerby 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted September 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, melmerby said: In japan that would be 1:80 which would mean the track is closer to the 3' 6" gauge than if it was 1:87 Actually I would bet they are Airfix models with fantasy pictures on the box. Or copies with enough alterations to get past copyright laws. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted September 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2019 Whatever you do don't type "Oriental Models" into Google as you won't see toy trains! Or maybe........ 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, melmerby said: Whatever you do don't type "Oriental Models" into Google as you won't see toy trains! Or maybe........ Don't worry guys I'll take one for the team and check that for you... I may be some time... 1 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 1 hour ago, melmerby said: Looks like the Airfix Drewry shunter I know they did the Pug which is what I presume the first is intended to be. it has the right number! Following the links, it’s quite clear that the box contents are the Airfix L&Y “pug” and the box art is just a local re-vamp of the Airfix art by an artist who had no understanding of the subject. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted September 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, rockershovel said: Following the links, it’s quite clear that the box contents are the Airfix L&Y “pug” and the box art is just a local re-vamp of the Airfix art by an artist who had no understanding of the subject. Or how the artist drew the models he made. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 30 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said: Or how the artist drew the models he made. Ref the account of the Rev Awdry’s opinion of the original illustrations of Percy, in particular. Thomas also bears little resemblance to the Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0T from which the iconic red and blue livery derives, and which could almost have been seen “in the metal” from Awdry’s windows... 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo675 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Hi Folks, Here are the BR Non Standards for your amusement: BR Non Standard class 5 2-6-2 fast goods engine. BR Non Standard hump shunter/banking engine with articulated booster fitted bunker. BR Non Standard 2-8-2-2-8-2 Garrett heavy goods engine. BR Non Standard Paget/Caprotti bogied Leader style cuntraption ! The valve gear would be Caprotti to ease valve gear trouble and I envisage six cylinders per bogie, two driving each axle at 120* crank offsets giving a total of six power pulses per revolution of the wheels all connected by Bulleid style Morse hi-vol chains to reduce reciprocating mass. I shall do a drawing of the cylinder layout later this week. The cab is centrally placed and more akin to a conventional locomotive unlike Bulleid's Leader and so may be a slight more popular with loco crews. http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/paget/paget.htm Gibbo. 9 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted September 10, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 10, 2019 21 hours ago, Gibbo675 said: Hi Folks, Here are the BR Non Standards for your amusement: BR Non Standard class 5 2-6-2 fast goods engine. BR Non Standard hump shunter/banking engine with articulated booster fitted bunker. BR Non Standard 2-8-2-2-8-2 Garrett heavy goods engine. BR Non Standard Paget/Caprotti bogied Leader style cuntraption ! Gibbo. Do Dapol have you on a regular delivery schedule? You must be really helping their cash flow! 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo675 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, melmerby said: Do Dapol have you on a regular delivery schedule? You must be really helping their cash flow! Hi Keith, It certainly does look that way ! They are such fun to chop about though and not too expensive, I had thought of a class 4 double Fairlie and then decided against the idea. I might see what I can do with the Schools class and also the city of Truro and Prairie tank amalgamations. There is always a class 4 BR Non Standard 4-4-0 to be considered. Gibbo. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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