RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 11, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 11, 2020 (edited) We seemed to have drifted from imaginary locos to a GWR wishlist How about an 0-8-0 based on the 2361, 2-8-0 based on Aberdare or an 0-8-0PT based on a 1661? 4-4-2PT based on a Bulldog. Edited May 11, 2020 by melmerby 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted May 11, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 11, 2020 10 hours ago, AlfaZagato said: Some time ago, I actually tried bashing a Buffalo in N with the outside-framed 08 and a pannier body, both Farish. Not as simple as I had hoped. Well nigh impossible I'd say; wheelbase and axle spacing are miles off! You could do an imaginary (see how I got back OT there) outside framed inside cylindered small prairie that way, though. 42 minutes ago, melmerby said: We seemed to have drifted from imaginary locos to a GWR wishlist How about an 0-8-0 based on the 2361, 2-8-0 based on Aberdare or an 0-8-0PT based on a 1661? 4-4-2PT based on a Bulldog. I like the mental picture of an 8-coupled Aberdare, no.1 boiler I assume. The pannier was drawn up as a GA drawing in one of Prof Tuplin's books IIRC with a no.10 boiler and 94xx style tanks and cab. I can't quite picture an 8-coupled 1661 unless very small driving wheels close together are crammed in, 4'1", and then I can picture it but not work out what it's for... A Bulldog based atlantic tank with panniers may have been unstable at speed unless the driving wheel diameter is reduced to 5'2" and the no.2 boiler pitched lower, but as seen on the 56xx, there is a limit to how low you can pitch it imposed by the firebox. I assume the tanks would stop short of the smokebox as you'd want to keep adhesive weight over the driving wheels. But reducing the driving wheel diameter compromises the fast suburban use that atlantic tanks are usually associated with. The 'County Tanks' fulfilled this role for many years until replaced by the 61xx. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted May 11, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 11, 2020 (edited) I think we need to go all the way here and imagine that outside frames and inside cylinders had remained in vogue right up to the 30s, to be brought to the LMS by Stanier. Outside-framed 4P 2-6-4T? I wonder if one could fit three cylinders or even four between the outside frames? Makes divided drive awkward. But let's not let that stand in the way of envisioning an outside-framed streamlined Princess Coronation... Edited May 11, 2020 by Compound2632 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmisterporter Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 Some poor fitters would have loved working on the valve gear. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 11, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 11, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Compound2632 said: But let's not let that stand in the way of envisioning an outside-framed streamlined Princess Coronation... Most would be hidden, fortunately Would be rather wide with cladding over the outside cranks! Edited May 11, 2020 by melmerby 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted May 11, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 11, 2020 (edited) Presumably, for a 2-cylinder engine, there's not much to choose between inside & outside frames, just the reduced accessibility of the motion between the wheels, and the need to have crank axles & eccentrics, where an outside cylindered loco could use plain axles? Edited May 11, 2020 by rodent279 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 7 hours ago, melmerby said: 2-8-0 based on Aberdare 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Player of trains Posted May 11, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 11, 2020 Blows dust off of account... This thread has to be one of the most dangerous to peruse on the site, more-so under lockdown and in that fiddly period where there’s no schoolwork to be done. I’ve been adapting Maunsell’s 4-8-0 proposal to my own needs, and mostly for fun. Overall it’s a bit of a mix of my own design, the proposal drawings as well as the Mathew Cousins painting and Mr Corbs excellent photobashes. The running gear is adapted from a first generation Hornby 8F and tender drive while the body has been fudged together with a Dapol schools kit and bits from the 8F, the boiler extension was imply solved by carving off the washout plugs to extend the barrel, glued to the Stanier belpaire and filled. The cylinders are mounted on their own extension fabricated from styrene and the crank axle and second driving axle swapped, I was expecting this to be a bit of a difficult job as I expected to have to pop the wheels off and re-quarter them but the wheels are held in with a keeper plate running in brass bushes, very nice for the time it would have been made. The tender is the real difference to the proposal and others mockups as they design called for the standard bogie tender, given this is a tender drive unit I’ve had to stick to the six wheel design so I’ve made a new body from the schools sides and styrene extensions to the rear of the tank and shaved off the raised lining. The tender is also an oil tender, the locomotive isn’t destined to become a Southern locomotive rather working somewhere else entirely and the oil tank top has been made from more styrene and pieces from the BR1F tender in the 9F kit with other odds and ends for the fuel filler flap and coach ventilators as well, ventilators. I’m quite pleased with how it’s gone so far and it’s so much better than what I posted on RM web several years ago, I hope the denizens of the thread will too. Keep up the imaginary workshops gents. 17 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traintresta Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 On 11/05/2020 at 23:16, Player of trains said: Blows dust off of account... This thread has to be one of the most dangerous to peruse on the site, more-so under lockdown and in that fiddly period where there’s no schoolwork to be done. I’ve been adapting Maunsell’s 4-8-0 proposal to my own needs, and mostly for fun. Overall it’s a bit of a mix of my own design, the proposal drawings as well as the Mathew Cousins painting and Mr Corbs excellent photobashes. The running gear is adapted from a first generation Hornby 8F and tender drive while the body has been fudged together with a Dapol schools kit and bits from the 8F, the boiler extension was imply solved by carving off the washout plugs to extend the barrel, glued to the Stanier belpaire and filled. The cylinders are mounted on their own extension fabricated from styrene and the crank axle and second driving axle swapped, I was expecting this to be a bit of a difficult job as I expected to have to pop the wheels off and re-quarter them but the wheels are held in with a keeper plate running in brass bushes, very nice for the time it would have been made. The tender is the real difference to the proposal and others mockups as they design called for the standard bogie tender, given this is a tender drive unit I’ve had to stick to the six wheel design so I’ve made a new body from the schools sides and styrene extensions to the rear of the tank and shaved off the raised lining. The tender is also an oil tender, the locomotive isn’t destined to become a Southern locomotive rather working somewhere else entirely and the oil tank top has been made from more styrene and pieces from the BR1F tender in the 9F kit with other odds and ends for the fuel filler flap and coach ventilators as well, ventilators. I’m quite pleased with how it’s gone so far and it’s so much better than what I posted on RM web several years ago, I hope the denizens of the thread will too. Keep up the imaginary workshops gents. I like this. The tender in particular is impressive but the whole thing has a nice feel about it. It looks like the sort of thing you might find on India or Ceylon. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted May 14, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 14, 2020 On 11/05/2020 at 15:10, melmerby said: How about ... an 0-8-0PT based on a 1661? Why stop there? If the GER could build a 0-10-0T, they why couldn't the GWR have a 0-10-0PT based on a 1661? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 14, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Budgie said: Why stop there? If the GER could build a 0-10-0T, they why couldn't the GWR have a 0-10-0PT based on a 1661? Churchward sketched up an 0-8-0PT with outside cylinders in C1905. It would have been no more powerful than 0-60PTs Collett's period produced a sketch for a 2-10-2T, with over 41000lb TE by the time we get to Hawksworth there is a proposed 2-6-0PT with outside cylinders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 I can't think of any design of UK 2-6-0 tank engines, or conversely a 0-6-2 tender engine, though I recall reading examples of the later existed in Portugal. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 hour ago, micknich2003 said: I can't think of any design of UK 2-6-0 tank engines, or conversely a 0-6-2 tender engine, though I recall reading examples of the later existed in Portugal. There were some narrow gauge 0-6-2 tender engines in South Africa. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfaZagato Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 2-6-0 tank restricts range, unless you're trying some bizarre way to carry fuel & water. (Well tanks with saddle coal hopper?) 0-6-2 tender takes weight, hence TE off of the drivers onto a dead axle. Though, if you had a situation with length restrictions, and need for a massive firebox and higher speeds, maybe some potential? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 8 hours ago, micknich2003 said: I can't think of any design of UK 2-6-0 tank engines. There were some 2-6-0Ts on the Tralee and Dingle Light Railway which was technically in the UK at the time they were built. Cheers David 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 Didn’t Fowlers build some narrow-gauge 0-6-2 tender engines for plantation service in various locations? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, DavidB-AU said: There were some narrow gauge 0-6-2 tender engines in South Africa. Also Kitson 2-6-0T Edited May 15, 2020 by rockershovel 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted May 15, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 15, 2020 The ROD in WW1 had some narrow guage 4-6-0's (Baldwin?) but later orders were for 2-6-2's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 17 hours ago, micknich2003 said: I can't think of any design of UK 2-6-0 tank engines, or conversely a 0-6-2 tender engine, though I recall reading examples of the later existed in Portugal. Same. There were a few 4-6-0Ts but not 2-6-0Ts AFAIK. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted May 15, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 15, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, micknich2003 said: I can't think of any design of UK 2-6-0 tank engines, or conversely a 0-6-2 tender engine, though I recall reading examples of the later existed in Portugal. (revolting pedant hat on) Hawksworth’s 2-6-0PT is a UK design of UK tank locomotive (while I’ve got my revolting pedant hat on, the engine is only the cylinders, pistons and motion, irrelevant to a discussion of matters relating to tank, tender, or wheel arrangement) and tanks and though as it never got beyond the design stage it is not a UK 2-6-0T locomotive... Edited May 15, 2020 by The Johnster 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 The G&KER had a 2-6-0T named Blackpool 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nile Posted May 15, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 15, 2020 7 hours ago, PhilJ W said: The ROD in WW1 had some narrow guage 4-6-0's (Baldwin?) and Hunslet. 7 hours ago, PhilJ W said: but later orders were for 2-6-2's. They were for the USA. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 1 hour ago, PenrithBeacon said: The G&KER had a 2-6-0T named Blackpool Didn't know about this. Any photos? 1 hour ago, The Johnster said: (revolting pedant hat on) Hawksworth’s 2-6-0PT is a UK design of UK tank locomotive (while I’ve got my revolting pedant hat on, the engine is only the cylinders, pistons and motion, irrelevant to a discussion of matters relating to tank, tender, or wheel arrangement) and tanks and though as it never got beyond the design stage it is not a UK 2-6-0T locomotive... Not opening that can of worms. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted May 15, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 15, 2020 14 hours ago, AlfaZagato said: 0-6-2 tender takes weight, hence TE off of the drivers onto a dead axle. Though, if you had a situation with length restrictions, and need for a massive firebox and higher speeds, maybe some potential? But 0-4-2 tender engines were popular in some quarters - perhaps especially among Ayrshiremen - in the 19th century. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 8 hours ago, rockershovel said: Didn’t Fowlers build some narrow-gauge 0-6-2 tender engines for plantation service in various locations? Roundhouse will sell you a 16mm scale live steam model of one. Apparently the rusting hulk of one survives in Australia, too. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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