Imaginary Locomotives

[scots region]

1 minute ago, Murican said:

In that case, maybe the LNER could have named the "I1s" after LNER predecessors. Like 'Great Central' or 'North Eastern'.

 

That was my though too. There were meant to be six.

 

So 

 

GREAT EASTERN

GREAT CENTRAL
NORTH EASTERN

NORTH BRITISH

 

Great Northern was of course accounted for, 

[Murican]

Just now, scots region said:

 

That was my though too. There were meant to be six.

 

So 

 

GREAT EASTERN

GREAT CENTRAL
NORTH EASTERN

NORTH BRITISH

 

Great Northern was of course accounted for, 

As for the sixth one, would 'Great North of Scotland' work?

[scots region]

Just now, Murican said:

As for the sixth one, would 'Great North of Scotland' work?

 

Yeah. 

[Murican]

2 minutes ago, scots region said:

 

Yeah. 

Any knowledge of what their numbers would be?

[Murican]

Another idea I fancied (inspired by a Thomas the tank engine headcanon) would be for Beyer Peacock to create a tank engine in collaboration with the Southern that attempted to fix the key problems with the LBSC E2, like with a shorter wheelbase and bigger coal bunker, and extended side tanks.

 

Think this art of Thomas himself: 

[Murican]

I think other people have mentioned an idea of an 8MT or 9MT tank engine based on the 8F and 9F respectively, but Railway Mania's Sudrian Spotlight series gave me an idea for if some railways actually converted some O8 locomotives into 2-8-4 tank engines.

 

Even beyond that, I also fancied the idea of some 4-6-4T versions of the Black Five, which would theoretically replace the 4MT tanks in an alternate timeline.

[Murican]

Also, has anyone ever tried modelling what a Standard 6MT 4-6-0 would have looked like? Or maybe had some US-built "Pershing" 2-8-0s ever seen service on BR?

[Gibbo675]

16 minutes ago, Murican said:

Also, has anyone ever tried modelling what a Standard 6MT 4-6-0 would have looked like? Or maybe had some US-built "Pershing" 2-8-0s ever seen service on BR?

Hi There,

 

I would suggest that a Std class 6 4-6-0 would look like a Std class 5 fitted with a boiler of the proportions of the LMS Royal Scot class.

 

Gibbo.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, scots region said:

the 4-8-2 was rumoured to be named 'The Great Eastern'. 

 

Apt - like Brunel's steamship, bigger than could be usefully employed at the time. 

 

1 hour ago, scots region said:

 

That was my though too. There were meant to be six.

 

So 

 

GREAT EASTERN

GREAT CENTRAL
NORTH EASTERN

NORTH BRITISH

 

Great Northern was of course accounted for, 

 

if the fifth was GNoS, then evidently the sixth would have to be HULL & BARNSLEY.

 

Or perhaps even better, the full title:

 

HULL BARNSLEY AND WEST RIDING JUNCTION RAILWAY AND DOCK COMPANY

 

Such a long locomotive deserves a long nameplate!

[jcm@gwr]

I guess they dismissed the idea of 'Great Western' then!

[Murican]

Going off my other ideas. If the LMS and LNER of my universe are big enough for 4-8-2s and 4-8-4s, I'd also fancy the idea of USATC steamers on BR. Or maybe some alternate history where some Russian Decapods and Pershing 2-8-0s end up stuck in the UK...

 

As for British locomotives, I also think the idea of a Colliet "Cathedral" 4-8-0 and a Bulleid 4-8-2 plans for the Merchant Navys being what's built in the end.

 

I would normally share quite a few more rail ideas, but they're include some context for larger alternate history ideas.

[Compound2632]

Why think so big? In the British context, small is beautiful. What would a Riddles single look like?

[Gibbo675]

5 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Why think so big? In the British context, small is beautiful. What would a Riddles single look like?

Hi Stephen,

 

It might look a bit like this but with a higher running plate and a BR 3 tender:

 

 

Gibbo.

[Murican]

Going off everything that's been discussed so far, here are some ideas I had. I know some have proposed these ideas before, but chose to use some of them as is because in America where I live, bigger is seen as better.

 

- The LBSC "Remembrance" engines being 4-6-0 tender engines from the beginning. Resulting in locomotives that resemble a 4-6-0 variation of the B4X with outside cylinders.

 

- L&Y's Hughes 2-10-0 becoming a reality, alongside the GCR's Baldwin 2-10-2. In my world, they'd set precedent for larger British steamers in general, with Baldwin collaborating with Beyer Peacock to make more of the 2-10-2s.

 

- During early LMS days, the Lemon 4-8-0 is built, albeit with a running board more akin to what'd later appear on Black Fives. This same engine gets a 4-8-4T counterpart, but neither are that popular.

 

- The mid-1920s sees the construction of several 4-8-0s mainly for mineral traffic; those being the above LMS Lemons, LNER Gresley T2s, and Maunsell S16.

 

- GWR's Cathedral engines are eventually built as 4-8-0s so that they'll have better adhesion than the 4-6-2 variation.

 

- Stanier building 2-8-4T variations of the 8F, which are continued under BR to take over for GWR mineral tanks.

 

- In addition to the above, Stanier builds his planned 9P 'Admiral' 4-6-4s and 10MT 'Empire' 4-8-4s. The former largely supplements Pacifics and 4-6-0s, while the 4-8-4 takes over the fastest freights.

 

- Gresley is tasked with building first the W2 4-6-4s, then the six I1 4-8-2s to take over from most of the A Class Pacifics.

 

- The Beyer Peacock T1 Class 0-6-0Ts, a modified design of the LBSC E2 that become common on British industrial lines, and even saw service on BR and the Continent after the war on all sorts of jobs like shunting and suburban trains. The ubiquity is what inspired the Reverend Awdry to base Thomas off them.

 

- Inspired by the LNER P2 and I1 locomotives, the Southern agrees to Bulleid's original 4-8-2 vision for the Merchant Navy Class. Only they end up built after nationalization, and as a result have their Standard-esque look from the beginning. In addition, they'd also have four-wheel tenders.

 

- BR decides to build the Duke of Gloucester as a 4-8-4 with a four-axle tender in an attempt to ape the Stanier 10MTs. Otherwise, its history is the same as real life.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Murican

[Ohmisterporter]

1 hour ago, Murican said:

Inspired by the LNER P2 and I1 locomotives, the Southern agrees to Bulleid's original 4-8-2 vision for the Merchant Navy Class. Only they end up built after nationalization, and as a result have their Standard-esque look from the beginning. In addition, they'd also have four-wheel tenders.

 

 

Some interesting concepts there but a 4-8-2 with a 4 wheel tender takes some imagining. I take it you meant 4 axles.

[Murican]

3 minutes ago, Ohmisterporter said:

 

Some interesting concepts there but a 4-8-2 with a 4 wheel tender takes some imagining. I take it you meant 4 axles.

I did.

[Murican]

Going off my ideas so far, I could not only imagine Stanier planning 2-8-2s and possibly 2-8-4s, but also Peppercorn planning his own I2 4-8-2s before Nationalization.

 

As for the idea of more American war machines staying in Britain, I had the idea that some S160s and S200s could be used by the Southern Railway for post-war goods work before nationalization.

[Murican]

For the sake of all my ideas, let's say that Peppercorn is automatically named Gresley's successor in 1938. As a result, the Thompson engines are gone, but what engines would we get from Peppercorn instead?

[JimC]

14 hours ago, Murican said:

- GWR's Cathedral engines are eventually built as 4-8-0s so that they'll have better adhesion than the 4-6-2 variation.

4-8-0, now there's a thought. Here's a Hawksworth style  4700 development with a front bogie to deal with (hopefully)  the nosing about above 60mph, and a King boiler to feed it some steam.

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by JimC

[PenrithBeacon]

I think that would need a bigger boiler,  something like a Duchess or A1 would do the trick.

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, JimC said:

4-8-0, now there's a thought. Here's a Hawksworth style  4700 development with a front bogie to deal with (hopefully)  the nosing about above 60mph, and a King boiler to feed it some steam.

 

 

That'll straighten the track out for you.

[BlueLightning]

16 hours ago, Murican said:

- The LBSC "Remembrance" engines being 4-6-0 tender engines from the beginning. Resulting in locomotives that resemble a 4-6-0 variation of the B4X with outside cylinders.

 

This almost happened, proposals were put forward for both a tank and tender version of the class, and number 328 was originally built as a 4-6-0 tender engine, however before it left the works 327 had proved itself as a tank engine, and 328 was rebuilt. 328 was built with a tender of the same style as the K Class, and it's tender would later end up behind one of them.

 

Gary

[Flying Pig]

16 hours ago, Murican said:

- During early LMS days, the Lemon 4-8-0 is built, albeit with a running board more akin to what'd later appear on Black Fives. This same engine gets a 4-8-4T counterpart, but neither are that popular.

 

Better when later "rebuilt" around the 2A boiler (picture from earlier in the thread, inspired by @Corbs).

 

[Gibbo675]

1 minute ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Better when later "rebuilt" around the 2A boiler (picture from earlier in the thread, inspired by @Corbs).

 

Hi There,

 

Would you be able to do a render that puts one of these boilers onto the Std 5 frame set to see what the Std class 6, 4-6-0 mentioned above might look like ?

 

Gibbo.

[Flying Pig]

10 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi There,

 

Would you be able to do a render that puts one of these boilers onto the Std 5 frame set to see what the Std class 6, 4-6-0 mentioned above might look like ?

 

Gibbo.

 

Sorry, no - I don't have a suitable device at home.  I'm sure someone else can oblige though.

 

As the LMS 2A-boilered engines became 7P under BR, do you see the Class 6 as a two-cylinder engine?  Would that possibly exacerbate the rear end roll of the Scots et al?