Imaginary Locomotives

[Northmoor]

35 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

Funnily enough, you used to be able to buy an F7 in BR blue while Lone Star did one that was in a fictional version of BR green.

I've got this one from Life-like:

[BernardTPM]

Yay! I see the 'number' is really more appropriate as a headcode. Lone Star's re-use of the Baby Deltic numbers was that much better though.

[John Besley]

1 hour ago, Mick Boyd said:

Talking about putting things into perspective....

 

Where is that?

[Northmoor]

15 minutes ago, John Besley said:

Where is that?

LAMCO Mining Company in Liberia.

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I can hear John Ramsbottom's sepulchral gyrations.

I believe he was on medication for those...

 

With your permission, this is definitely going to be the name of my next rock band.  The last one was Lazy Piranha.

Edited May 2, 2021 by The Johnster

[rodent279]

2 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

It's why 00 exists, basically.

 

In real life if you try to fit the same traction equipment in a 7/8 size body you end up redesigning the whole thing.

So what "scale" were Triang's F7's built to? OO, HO, or something in between?

[PhilJ W]

2 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

So what "scale" were Triang's F7's built to? OO, HO, or something in between?

OO but they were a bit short IIRC.

[BernardTPM]

1 hour ago, rodent279 said:

So what "scale" were Triang's F7's built to? OO, HO, or something in between?

They didn't really do an F7, just a "Transcontinental diesel" which they designed themselves, a freelance interpretation of a typical US 'covered wagon' type. They actually got much closer with their double-ended diesel* which has a much better GM cab (twice, of course ).

 

* The 1958 catalogue picture is just a mock-up converted from an R55.

Edited May 2, 2021 by BernardTPM

[rodent279]

1 minute ago, BernardTPM said:

They didn't really do an F7, just a "Transcontinental diesel" which they designed themselves, a freelance interpretation of a typical US 'covered wagon' type. They actually got much closer with their double-ended diesel which has a much better GM cab (twice, of course ).

I had a Transcontinental, the previous owner had painted it in a weird and wonderful colour scheme. No idea where it is now-possibly still somewhere in my dad's house, which we've just cleared and sold.

[BernardTPM]

I bought a secondhand one a few years ago and it turned out to have the very early drive in it.

[rodent279]

17 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

I bought a secondhand one a few years ago and it turned out to have the very early drive in it.

Mine was the later type with the armature suspended between the bogie frames, with gear worm and wheel drive to the axles. Same with the Alco RS2 and Australian electric. I don't think any bear any real resemblance to the prototypes, but they are endearing, if only for childhood memories.

[rodent279]

21 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Here's why an F7 wouldn't get very far - Class 47 and F7 end elevations to the same scale:

 

 

It's also why the body of a Class 59 looks so squashed and elongated.

In fact, they didn't get far off with the Australian 421 class. Height wise it'll just fit, width is a bit too big still, but getting there.

Edit: sorry read that height as 13'1", not 13'10", so too tall, but I reckon with a bit of work, an F unit could be scaled to fit.

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_South_Wales_421_class_locomotive

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by rodent279

[Ohmisterporter]

I had a Triang blue and yellow diesel version. The electric loco with pantograph was green IIRC. Changing the name from Triang Railways to Transcontinental Railways made more sense to me.

[Ohmisterporter]

 

[BernardTPM]

5 hours ago, rodent279 said:

In fact, they didn't get far off with the Australian 421 class. Height wise it'll just fit, width is a bit too big still, but getting there.

Edit: sorry read that height as 13'1", not 13'10", so too tall, but I reckon with a bit of work, an F unit could be scaled to fit.

The 421 was essentilly the same as the VR Class 'S' which in turn was a single cab version of the Class 'B'. The pressings were the same as used for the E/F units, but with bits sliced out to reduce their size. Note though you would still have problems with the shape even if you got the height and width down as the curve of the roof is shallower, making the sides taller.

A useful comparison would be to look at the Deltic cab and compare with the ones they exported. The greater curvature of the roof (to fit tunnels and bridges) gives that almost bent triangle shape to the Deltic cab windows. To get the GM EMD cab to fit our loading gauge it would require similar alterations.

 

I've found a drawing with the internmal arrangements here. There are definitely going to be some issues in reducing the height. For a start there are traction motor blowers and an air reservoir under the cab. The latter will definitely need moving, but will there be room for the blowers? Not sure yet. Also there won't be room above the engine for any of the cooling fans, so they'll need moving. Luckily the diesel engine itelf will fit, but we're going to need some more length to get the displaced equipment in and the cab at the other end. The extra length will add weight so it will probably need to go ont six-wheel bogies (the standard F3 weighed about 100 tons). Don't expect a very wide route availabilty.

Edited May 3, 2021 by BernardTPM

[BernardTPM]

Here's what it might look like, using as much of the F7 nose as possible:

 

[simon b]

1 hour ago, BernardTPM said:

Here's what it might look like, using as much of the F7 nose as possible:

 

Looks like a class 23 body with different cab windows. 

[PhilJ W]

3 hours ago, Ohmisterporter said:

 

The red locomotive that you can glimpse in the film is a good representative of the Alco switcher.

[rodent279]

55 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

The red locomotive that you can glimpse in the film is a good representative of the Alco switcher.

Yes, an Alco RS2. I have the yellow version.

[Flying Pig]

3 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Here's what it might look like, using as much of the F7 nose as possible:

 

3 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

The 421 was essentilly the same as the VR Class 'S' which in turn was a single cab version of the Class 'B'. The pressings were the same as used for the E/F units, but with bits sliced out to reduce their size. Note though you would still have problems with the shape even if you got the height and width down as the curve of the roof is shallower, making the sides taller.

A useful comparison would be to look at the Deltic cab and compare with the ones they exported. The greater curvature of the roof (to fit tunnels and bridges) gives that almost bent triangle shape to the Deltic cab windows. To get the GM EMD cab to fit our loading gauge it would require similar alterations.

 

I've found a drawing with the internmal arrangements here. There are definitely going to be some issues in reducing the height. For a start there are traction motor blowers and an air reservoir under the cab. The latter will definitely need moving, but will there be room for the blowers? Not sure yet. Also there won't be room above the engine for any of the cooling fans, so they'll need moving. Luckily the diesel engine itelf will fit, but we're going to need some more length to get the displaced equipment in and the cab at the other end. The extra length will add weight so it will probably need to go ont six-wheel bogies (the standard F3 weighed about 100 tons). Don't expect a very wide route availabilty.

 

If you stick to the nose end style, you'll end up with a Peak or Class 40: traction motor blowers etc in the nose, power plant and cooling separated lengthwise.  Flatten the ends and the blowers and auxiliaries will move, but the rest will stay the same, as indeed it did in real life.  The Deltics were unusual in that the exceptionally compact engines allowed space for cooling plant above within the loading gauge, but no chance of that for locos with medium speed lumps.

 

[BernardTPM]

Exactly. I can see why they initially supplied CIE with bonnet jobs with a cab at one end and then went to the same with a cab at each end; it's much simpler. And the Irish loading gauge has some extra width over the typical British loading gauge as a result of it's broader 5' 3" track. It could never have been the case of sticking buffers on an E or F unit. Something near to bespoke would have been needed. Even a Nohab is quite a bit too large.

Edited May 3, 2021 by BernardTPM

[rodent279]

5 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

The 421 was essentilly the same as the VR Class 'S' which in turn was a single cab version of the Class 'B'. The pressings were the same as used for the E/F units, but with bits sliced out to reduce their size. Note though you would still have problems with the shape even if you got the height and width down as the curve of the roof is shallower, making the sides taller.

A useful comparison would be to look at the Deltic cab and compare with the ones they exported. The greater curvature of the roof (to fit tunnels and bridges) gives that almost bent triangle shape to the Deltic cab windows. To get the GM EMD cab to fit our loading gauge it would require similar alterations.

 

I've found a drawing with the internmal arrangements here. There are definitely going to be some issues in reducing the height. For a start there are traction motor blowers and an air reservoir under the cab. The latter will definitely need moving, but will there be room for the blowers? Not sure yet. Also there won't be room above the engine for any of the cooling fans, so they'll need moving. Luckily the diesel engine itelf will fit, but we're going to need some more length to get the displaced equipment in and the cab at the other end. The extra length will add weight so it will probably need to go ont six-wheel bogies (the standard F3 weighed about 100 tons). Don't expect a very wide route availabilty.

Yes, they (E/F units) don't look that big in their natural environment, with nothing to compare them against, except things their own size.

I guess a UK version would end up a little like a cross between a class 66 and a Deltic. Maybe think Deltic, with class 66 roof profile.

Makes you think BR/Brush/EE/BRCW etc did well to squeeze locomotives of similar or greater power into the UK loading gauge.

Mind you, Deltic in stainless steel, a la Burlington's Silver E5 units, would be a fine sight.

Edited May 3, 2021 by rodent279

[BernardTPM]

I'm not sure they would have had a Cl.59/66 roof profile back in the 1950s, all a bit late '70s angular, but yes, basically there would be much more 'roof' compared to body.

[scots region]

For those of you who use train simulator.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by scots region

[ScottishRailFanatic]

I've seen many a YouTube personality talk about this peculiar 'neverwazza', all with great video coverage. Notable ones are:

- Dark DJ Productions

- Steaming Westward Productions

- Angry Welshman Productions