Imaginary Locomotives

[Ramblin Rich]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

As @Compound2632 said the cab would be rather warm and it would require very long pipes to deliver the exhaust to the chimney.

Sorry to pick this apart, but the 3rd driving axle is also going through the firebox/ashpan.

[ScottishRailFanatic]

3 minutes ago, Ramblin Rich said:

Sorry to pick this apart, but the 3rd driving axle is also going through the firebox/ashpan.

So it is! I can’t imagine it taking very kindly to being fired at all…

[ScottishRailFanatic]

A stock move on the Mid Hants saw a Merchant Navy (Wadebridge if I remember correctly) being shifted with no leading bogie, so it got me wondering what a downsized Merchant could look like…

[rockershovel]

I hadn't confused bulk density and SG, I had assumed that the fuel supply would be briquettes - common in French practice and possibly visible in at least one of the pictures. However I dare say the "back bunker plus part of one side" configuration is probably the correct answer. 

[JimC]

4 minutes ago, ScottishRailFanatic said:

A stock move on the Mid Hants saw a Merchant Navy (Wadebridge if I remember correctly) being shifted with no leading bogie, so it got me wondering what a downsized Merchant could look like…

 A project for a Bulleid enthusiast - a mixed traffic 2-6-0 or 4-6-0 with 5'7 wheels...

[john new]

25 minutes ago, ScottishRailFanatic said:

A stock move on the Mid Hants saw a Merchant Navy (Wadebridge if I remember correctly) being shifted with no leading bogie, so it got me wondering what a downsized Merchant could look like…

Pedantry I know but Wadebridge is a West Country not an MN. Interesting photo.

[Flying Pig]

2 hours ago, ScottishRailFanatic said:

So it is! I can’t imagine it taking very kindly to being fired at all…

 

An axle passing through the ashpan wasn't uncommon, but one passing through the firebox is a definite nope.  Look carefully at these diagrams of LMS Class 5s and you can see the sloping line of the grate with the ashpan below and the rear axle passing through the ashpan.  Any axle arranged thus must leave enough space below the grate so that the fire does not choke, without creating a grate profile that would be difficult to fire.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Flying Pig
spelin

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Not exactly a Chapelonesque steam circuit

Not so much a circuit as a prolonged tour of the locomotive...

[AlfaZagato]

Even if the length of the circuit wasn't an issue, the Pennsy showed that reversed cylinders anywhere near the ashpan is a nightmare at best.

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Not so much a circuit as a prolonged tour of the locomotive...

 

But probably no worse than a Garratt.

[ScottishRailFanatic]

1 hour ago, john new said:

Pedantry I know but Wadebridge is a West Country not an MN. Interesting photo.

Apologies, I can’t help getting the two mixed up, no matter how hard I try not to!

[DenysW]

du Bousquets.

 

Yes the only fuel visible at the back area in any of the pictures with enough detail does indeed look like briquettes, neatly stacked, maybe 0.25 m above the top line of the steel work.

 

Some pictures probably show (although clarity is poor) that the rear side tanks have a hinged lid that I'd not associate with water storage.

 

Still confused, but now tending towards Flying Pig's view as most likely to be correct.

[cypherman]

4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Not exactly a Chapelonesque steam circuit and plenty of mass over the bogie to reduce adhesion. But nice and toasty in the cab, I should think.

 

This is an outside-cylinder Flatiron, if you really want one:

 

Hi all,

Compound that engine is a Fowler 2-6-4T and not an 0-6-4 Flatiron. This is a Flatiron 

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, cypherman said:

Compound that engine is a Fowler 2-6-4T and not an 0-6-4 Flatiron. This is a Flatiron 

 

I am aware of that! (I would hope that my avatar would give you the hint that that might be the case.) My point was that if you want to design an outside-cylindered version of a Flatiron, what you would inevitably be led to would be the Standard 4P 2-6-4T; as indeed the Derby LDO staff were.

 

Anyway, thank you for posting a photo of a Flatiron. One can never have too many pictures of Midland engines.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Compound2632

[The Johnster]

But the Fowler 2-6-4T was designed as a replacement for the Flatiron, so describing it as an outside cylindered Flatiron is not that wide of the mark.  Sorry, Compound’s last post arrived while I was typing this and has made it a bit redundant…

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

But the Fowler 2-6-4T was designed as a replacement for the Flatiron, so describing it as an outside cylindered Flatiron is not that wide of the mark.  

 

At the time the Flatiron was under development, the Derby LDO sketched out a number of intriguing schemes, all more interesting, if less down-to-earth, than what appeared. Two of them were an outside-cylindered 2-6-4Ts; one of which had outside Walschaerts valve gear - the S&DJR 2-8-0s were not far off. [See P. Atkins, The Evolution of the 'Flatirons', Midland Record No. 9.]

[Johnson044]

Here's an interesting precedent. The Kiwis tried a 2-6-0-0-6-0 in 1906, a Vauclain compound known as "Pearson's Dream". Seems to have been reasonably successful at what it was intended for (the Rimatuka incline) but intensely disliked by the crews, probably because it was so ferociously hot and it was also extremely heavy on fuel. Very much a one-off.

[Johnson044]

3 hours ago, john new said:

Pedantry I know but Wadebridge is a West Country not an MN. Interesting photo.

Surely a downsized Bulleid pacific has been imagined and very ably created recently? I refer of course to 33C's splendid "Sea Battle" class?

[Johnson044]

21 hours ago, sir douglas said:

2ft gauge vertical boiler meyer

I think the Kiwis had a go at something quite similar - this one's more of a Garratt! 

[sir douglas]

the only main difference between a garratt and a meyer is where the coal and water is and i went the meyer route. in this picture, if the cab side sheet has a coal bunker and the box below is a tank? then it makes it a meyer not a garratt, a little unnecessary pedantry i know

[Johnson044]

...and why not? A little healthy pedantry is good for the soul (hmm- maybe?)! If we're going to be truly pedantic the book's original caption says it's one of the "most unique" locomotives ever built- surely something's either unique or it isn't - there are no degrees of uniqueness. I didn't know the difference between a Meyer and a Garratt - It does look like the water tank is underneath, which would probably help with providing a better centre of gravity for what must have been quite a top-heavy loco.

[ScottishRailFanatic]

I can already hear the purists screaming… 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, ScottishRailFanatic said:

I can already hear the purists screaming… 

 

 

That's the engine @cypherman built just two pages back:

 

 

I'm sure I've seen a similar one finished in Southern green recently, too.

[Gilwell Park]

Here is one I built earlier.

[rockershovel]

4 hours ago, Johnson044 said:

Here's an interesting precedent. The Kiwis tried a 2-6-0-0-6-0 in 1906, a Vauclain compound known as "Pearson's Dream". Seems to have been reasonably successful at what it was intended for (the Rimatuka incline) but intensely disliked by the crews, probably because it was so ferociously hot and it was also extremely heavy on fuel. Very much a one-off.

That's definitely a candidate for the "antidote to good looking locos" thread; what a dog. Seems it's a Mallet, which would make it a 2-6-6-0, a configuration which seems to have been quite successful on the Cape Gauge in NZ and South Africa. Vauclain compounds seem to have been a short-lived folly  though. Weren't one of the Colorado 3' gauge 2-8-2s originally constructed in that form?

Edited September 3, 2021 by rockershovel