62613 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 On 14/01/2022 at 09:58, Compound2632 said: Well, the picture seems to be that there was insufficient capital; if one can't afford the first cost of a better solution, what are you going to do? Better to have the Lickey than no railway to Gloucester at all. It evidently wasn't so great a burden to operate as to make it worth building a more easily-graded diversion later - which the Midland could easily have done later in the century, if one compares the vast capital outlay on quadrupling with easier gradients in the comparable case of the Leicester & Hitchin, also built with stiffer than desirable gradients at a time of financial stringency. All these 1:27 gradients being mentioned are on branch lines of one sort or another. The best comparison to the Lickey is Shap - not as stiff but longer, which also required banking throughout the steam period. Here's a bit of variety in Lickey banking in 1902: [Embedded link to Midland Railway Study Centre catalogue thumbnail of item 60190.] - a goods train being banked by 1532 Class 0-4-4T No. 1734, at that time shedded at Redditch, and one of Bromsgrove's four 2441 Class 0-6-0Ts. The Werneth incline was the original main line from Middleton Junction to Oldham. The present Metrolink route was a more easily - graded (really!) cut - off. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tythatguy1312 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 OK So I'm kinda curious about this, what would a Corris falcon have looked like had the GWR Swindonised one? I mean they were desperate for a rebuild, as evidenced by No.3 being rebuilt using what was left of 1 & 2. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 17, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2022 Doubt if the GW would have done much to them beyond replacing the safety valves and giving them a brass cover 'trumpet'. Re-livery of course, unlined green, no copper chimney. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northmoor Posted January 17, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2022 2 hours ago, tythatguy1312 said: OK So I'm kinda curious about this, what would a Corris falcon have looked like had the GWR Swindonised one? I mean they were desperate for a rebuild, as evidenced by No.3 being rebuilt using what was left of 1 & 2. In a similar vein, what if the Talyllyn and Ffestiniog had survived long emough to be Nationalised? What might have happened to the locos/rolling stock; imagine a "modern" slate wagon fleet and diesels. Although I'm sure Swindon's desire to tinker would only have made the Double Fairlies worse. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted January 17, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Northmoor said: In a similar vein, what if the Talyllyn and Ffestiniog had survived long emough to be Nationalised? What might have happened to the locos/rolling stock; imagine a "modern" slate wagon fleet and diesels. Although I'm sure Swindon's desire to tinker would only have made the Double Fairlies worse. Double Panniers anyone? 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tythatguy1312 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 31 minutes ago, Northmoor said: Talyllyn and Ffestiniog had survived long emough to be Nationalised Funnily enough, the reason the Talyllyn wasn't was due to it being on private land. If it was nationalised though, I can picture them being reason enough for BR to create a dedicated narrow gauge diesel, particularly if the Ffestiniog is also in the picture. Given the last slate quarries on both were closing, I can picture light DMU's being used on them, similar to the ones that Donegal invested heavily in. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 24 minutes ago, Northmoor said: In a similar vein, what if the Talyllyn and Ffestiniog had survived long emough to be Nationalised? The Talyllyn was still open in 1950, Nationalisation was in 1948, so clearly it wasn't relevant. The only narrow gauge lines that were Nationalised were the ones that had previously been operated by the GWR (Corris, Vale of Rheidol and Welshpool & Llanfair)*. The Lynton & Barnstable and the Leek & Manifold would have been Nationalised if they hadn't closed in the 1930s. The Festiniog was always independant and though it ceased operating in 1946, the Company itself remained in legal existance as it would have needed an Act of Parliament to close it. There were even standard Gauge lines that didn't get Nationalised, e.g. Derwent Valley Railway. * Not counting narrow gauge lines in works e.g. Horwich. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 The FR did use the Kerr Stuart 4415 and they did make enquiries with Armstrong Whitworth. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tythatguy1312 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 haven't they had 2 IC locos since the early 1920's? I mean the Talyllyn also had a Ford Model T and a Mercury Tractor 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
whart57 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Wouldn't a diesel like this be a logical development for a line with double Fairlies? So the imaginary loco is a 2' gauge version of the CIE's West Clare diesels 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 18, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2022 Then there's the Flunky locomotives. NumberNameWheel arrangementDate builtBuilderNotes Castell CaernarfonB-B1967CH Funkey & Co This 335 hp diesel hydraulic locomotive was built for work in a diamond mine and was later used for cement traffic at Port Elizabeth, South Africa. It is one of a pair imported by the Ffestiniog Railway, the other (Vale of Ffestiniog) being re-bodied to fit the FR loading gauge. It was the first locomotive to be moved to Dinas, in January 1997. In service on newly refurbished bogies. Unlike other diesels purchased by the Ffestiniog Railway Company and named bilingually after Northern Welsh castles, 'Castell Caernarfon' is named in Welsh only. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, PhilJ W said: Then there's the Flunky locomotives. This 335 hp diesel hydraulic locomotive was built for work in a diamond mine and was later used for cement traffic at Port Elizabeth, South Africa. It is one of a pair imported by the Ffestiniog Railway, the other (Vale of Ffestiniog) being re-bodied to fit the FR loading gauge. Though it should be pointed out that it fits the current FR loading gauge but would not have fitted through the old Moelwyn tunnel. Edited January 18, 2022 by BernardTPM 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 10 hours ago, PhilJ W said: Then there's the Flunky locomotives. Is that bloke behind the grill part of the pedalling crew? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted January 18, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2022 31 minutes ago, billbedford said: Is that bloke behind the grill part of the pedalling crew? I think it's just eaten him. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Neth Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 I read somewhere that the proposed Whyte notation for the BR standard 5MTs was 4-6-2, but deemed too large and costly, and so the 4-6-0 design was chosen over it. I made a (real terrible, but tried my best) photoshop of what if the 5MTs were 4-6-2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 My almost finished take on a Class Five pacific with smaller drivers. 11 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Neth Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, Ben Alder said: My almost finished take on a Class Five pacific with smaller drivers. for your head canon how long would the driver diameters be? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
whart57 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 7 hours ago, Alex Neth said: for your head canon how long would the driver diameters be? And how small would the drivers have to go in order to get a 2-8-2 wheel arrangement under that boiler? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) 5' 8" in this case...... I have thoughts, and bits assembled, for a 5'3" version but my attentions have been diverted elsewhere for the time being. again, awaiting finishing, but it has done its running trials successfully. Edited January 19, 2022 by Ben Alder 10 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted January 19, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Ben Alder said: 5' 8" in this case...... I have thoughts, and bits assembled, for a 5'3" version but my attentions have been diverted elsewhere for the time being. again, awaiting finishing, but it has done its running trials successfully. A very apt post to be the 10,000th one in this thread! 2 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Neth Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 4 hours ago, Ben Alder said: 5' 8" in this case...... I have thoughts, and bits assembled, for a 5'3" version but my attentions have been diverted elsewhere for the time being. again, awaiting finishing, but it has done its running trials successfully. so the drivers of the 4MT for the 5MT pacific, Nice 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 19, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2022 13 hours ago, Alex Neth said: I read somewhere that the proposed Whyte notation for the BR standard 5MTs was 4-6-2, but deemed too large and costly, and so the 4-6-0 design was chosen over it. I made a (real terrible, but tried my best) photoshop of what if the 5MTs were 4-6-2 Very good on steep inclines; this one's capable of climbing a step... 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Neth Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, The Johnster said: Very good on steep inclines; this one's capable of climbing a step... lol, the trailing wheels dont even line up flush with the drivers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tythatguy1312 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 On 18/01/2022 at 10:37, whart57 said: be a logical development for a line with double Fairlies? aye, Clayton themselves gave a shot 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted January 20, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2022 On 18/01/2022 at 10:37, whart57 said: Wouldn't a diesel like this be a logical development for a line with double Fairlies? So the imaginary loco is a 2' gauge version of the CIE's West Clare diesels Were there any standard gauge double Fairlie's? If not, why not? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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