Imaginary Locomotives

[scots region]

 

Presenting a Hudswell Clark, diesel mechanical garret, for your viewing pleasure 

 

[Corbs]

That's cool, I'm guessing none were made?

 

Something probably done on this thread before, inspired by American practice, a Class 20 'Slug' retaining only traction motors and weighed down with ballast to add tractive effort at slow speed. Converted from surplus 20s, note no grilles, exhausts or fans.

 

[rodent279]

2 hours ago, scots region said:

 

Presenting a Hudswell Clark, diesel mechanical garret, for your viewing pleasure 

 

Here's one I've thought about in the past. No artist's impression, I'm afraid, I am no artist.

 

A pair of class 08 frames, traction motors & running gear, articulated together to make a C-C, with a class 20 engine and generator mounted between, a bit like the above. Result-a 1000hp C-C with enough grunt to shift almost anything. If a top speed of say 40mph could be allowed, you'd have a half decent piece of motive power for short but heavy freight flows and/or ECS work.

[Satan's Goldfish]

That Hudswell Clarke is basically a single cabbed diesel version of an SBB Crocodile 6/8, so not such a squiff idea to start from. Diesel Generator powering 2 large electric motors that drive the wheels via jack shaft...

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

23 minutes ago, Corbs said:

Something probably done on this thread before, inspired by American practice, a Class 20 'Slug' retaining only traction motors and weighed down with ballast to add tractive effort at slow speed. Converted from surplus 20s, note no grilles, exhausts or fans.

 

If you are starting from a 20, then surely disconnecting the on board engine controls on the slug is the cheapest  path to job done? Then you can have a master/slug pair with driving cabs both end. The only clue will be the fan and exhaust plated over on the slug to prevent water ingress. Only the cognoscentiest of the congnoscenti will know...

[AlfaZagato]

8 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

 Only the cognoscentiest of the congnoscenti will know...

So, everyone in this hobby?

[Corbs]

9 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

If you are starting from a 20, then surely disconnecting the on board engine controls on the slug is the cheapest  path to job done? Then you can have a master/slug pair with driving cabs both end. The only clue will be the fan and exhaust plated over on the slug to prevent water ingress. Only the cognoscentiest of the congnoscenti will know...

 

True it would be cheapest, although most of the USA slugs I have seen are rebuilt in this fashion. Even Road Slugs that retain cabs etc. (many of which are still full height) have the prime movers recovered for scrap or re-use and have the grilles plated over.

[RLBH]

Driving the Class 20 + slug combination nose-first seems like it would be a rather interesting experience. Maybe better with the cab in the middle - that way it's moderately inconvenient (no worse than a steamer, really) in both directions, rather than a real one way.

[melmerby]

Wouldn't you need more power than a Class 20 to have enough for a slug?

 

That's only 125hp per axle, you need a bigger engine.

[Corbs]

40 minutes ago, RLBH said:

Driving the Class 20 + slug combination nose-first seems like it would be a rather interesting experience. Maybe better with the cab in the middle - that way it's moderately inconvenient (no worse than a steamer, really) in both directions, rather than a real one way.

True, although the Class 13 was originally cab-in-the-middle but changed around to cab-at-one-end. Slugs seem to mostly be used for shunting.

[Dave John]

Wouldn't the slug still need intake grills for traction motor blowers ? 

[tomparryharry]

I would be very surprised to see a class 20 working as a slave in this configuration. It's just not cost effective to lose the drivers cab for the return journey. However... 3  class 20's worked cabs leading, with a slave in the middle, might be interesting. or, even 2 slaves, working in the centre....

 

Ian.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, AlfaZagato said:

So, everyone in this hobby?

Possibly, except me. There's a thread elsewhere about correct tenders for the preserved A4s. Now these are my favourite UK pacific by some margin, but I couldn't tell you which had precisely what, beyond the silver quartet at introduction had the coach ended streamline corridor type. (My role as direct observer consisted of standing (bouncing actually) on the railway fence wires and yelling "Streak!" every time one charged past at 110mph.) Barely a cog.

[AlfaZagato]

49 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Possibly, except me. There's a thread elsewhere about correct tenders for the preserved A4s. Now these are my favourite UK pacific by some margin, but I couldn't tell you which had precisely what, beyond the silver quartet at introduction had the coach ended streamline corridor type. (My role as direct observer consisted of standing (bouncing actually) on the railway fence wires and yelling "Streak!" every time one charged past at 110mph.) Barely a cog.

I, admittedly, was trying to be funny.   Still, yeah, 'standardization' is a false promise with machinery as large as locomotives. 

[Corbs]

16 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

I would be very surprised to see a class 20 working as a slave in this configuration. It's just not cost effective to lose the drivers cab for the return journey. However... 3  class 20's worked cabs leading, with a slave in the middle, might be interesting. or, even 2 slaves, working in the centre....

 

Ian.

By jove, he's got it!

[Satan's Goldfish]

A slight alteration if I may Mr Corbs, just to make it slightly worse: the 1-Do-1 version!

 

[tomparryharry]

26 minutes ago, Corbs said:

By jove, he's got it!

 

Thank you Mr Corbs.  May I respectfully suggest that you only remove the cab from the centre diesel; The engine bay remains to all intents & purposes the original class 20.  This is because the innards of the diesel is needed to make the centre 'slave' unit a workable proposition. That space above the slave is useable working space, all upwards to the loading gauge.

 

If you have a look at American practice, you'll see what I mean.

 

I do like your interpretation with the artwork.

 

Ian.

[Corbs]

7 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

 

Thank you Mr Corbs.  May I respectfully suggest that you only remove the cab from the centre diesel; The engine bay remains to all intents & purposes the original class 20.  This is because the innards of the diesel is needed to make the centre 'slave' unit a workable proposition. That space above the slave is useable working space, all upwards to the loading gauge.

 

If you have a look at American practice, you'll see what I mean.

 

I do like your interpretation with the artwork.

 

Ian.

Ah but it is a 'slug' not a 'calf' (or 'slave' in UK terminology).

So a Calf/Slave would keep the prime mover for working in multiple, a Slug is just the traction motors with ballast weight on top.

 

It's presumably cut down to improve visibility if working long hood first.

 

Note this SNCF shunter has the cab in the middle (but low hood anyway)

 

Edited February 26, 2019 by Corbs

[tomparryharry]

2 minutes ago, Corbs said:

Ah but it is a 'slug' not a 'calf' (or 'slave' in UK terminology).

So a Calf/Slave would keep the prime mover for working in multiple, a Slug is just the traction motors with ballast weight on top.

 

 

In my world, the term is 'slave'. A locomotive diesel gains that shape mostly because of the working parts inside. If you lose the ton or so of drivers cab, you will easily regain that with all of the gubbins that goes to facilitate multiple working. You'll still need motor blowers, grills, jumper cables. In fact, everything you would see on a typical class 20 in service. What you would lose is the headcode discs, replaced by a tail lamp holder, when working in trailing mode.

 

What you 'might' envisage, is a slave unit with a pantograph or two on the upper bodywork, but such electrickery is outside my level of understanding.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[Coryton]

2 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

In my world, the term is 'slave'. A locomotive diesel gains that shape mostly because of the working parts inside. If you lose the ton or so of drivers cab, you will easily regain that with all of the gubbins that goes to facilitate multiple working. You'll still need motor blowers, grills, jumper cables. In fact, everything you would see on a typical class 20 in service. What you would lose is the headcode discs, replaced by a tail lamp holder, when working in trailing mode.

 

What you 'might' envisage, is a slave unit with a pantograph or two on the upper bodywork, but such electrickery is outside my level of understanding.

 

 

But don't the 20's already have everything they need for multiple working?

[tomparryharry]

Yes, I fully agree, but the topic is imaginary locomotives. A touch of the 'neverwazzer'.  We can explore the envelope here to our hearts content. I'm cr*p with the artwork, so that's for other to interpret. My only input is what I'd expect to see of the engineering & aesthetic renditions of a vivid imagination.

 

Seeing how others see it is sometimes all of the fun.

 

Ian.

[Corbs]

4 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

In my world, the term is 'slave'. A locomotive diesel gains that shape mostly because of the working parts inside. If you lose the ton or so of drivers cab, you will easily regain that with all of the gubbins that goes to facilitate multiple working. You'll still need motor blowers, grills, jumper cables. In fact, everything you would see on a typical class 20 in service. What you would lose is the headcode discs, replaced by a tail lamp holder, when working in trailing mode.

 

But why do the American and French examples have cut down bodies? By losing the prime mover and cab, you presumably regain the floor space enabling you to reduce the height.

 

'Slaves' in UK terminology have diesel engines in them as per the BR Class 13. Calling this a 'slave' would be incorrect as it does not have a prime mover. If you were to call both 'Slaves' then how do you distinguish a 'slug' from a 'calf' (US) - do you see what I mean?

 

Here is another take on it retaining the prime mover - so a Slave (UK) or Calf (US) or B-Unit (US). 3000HP in multiple.

[rodent279]

48 minutes ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

A slight alteration if I may Mr Corbs, just to make it slightly worse: the 1-Do-1 version!

 

Wasn't there an Australian version of this? Think it was a 2000hp EE engine, with a 1-Do-1 or 2-Do-2 wheel arrangement.

[RLBH]

19 minutes ago, Coryton said:

But don't the 20's already have everything they need for multiple working?

Everything apart from the whacking great jumper cables needed to supply power to the traction motors. Which might make the three-unit version exciting, since all three units would become electrically linked.

 

A 'slug' is intended to be used at low speed, when the traction motors are generating maximum torque but the engine isn't having to work hard to do it. The slug has an extra set of traction motors to get things going, but takes power from the locomotive. Perhaps best to think of the Class 20/slug combination as a sort of super-Class 13, with 84,000 pounds of tractive effort but only 1,000 horsepower. Or, indeed, as a powered version of a diesel brake tender. A cabless Class 20 - what the Americans call a 'booster' - to work in main line formations is a very different idea, conceptually, There, the idea is to provide an extra locomotive without the expense of an extra cab.

 

On general principles, I like the 1-Do-1 version of the Class 20 - just need to make it a 1-D-1 with external coupling rods now!

 

Edit: Come to think of it, would a booster need yellow ends? It should never be running as the leading unit, after all....

Edited February 26, 2019 by RLBH

[tomparryharry]

7 minutes ago, Corbs said:

 

But why do the American and French examples have cut down bodies? By losing the prime mover and cab, you presumably regain the floor space enabling you to reduce the height.

 

'Slaves' in UK terminology have diesel engines in them as per the BR Class 13. Calling this a 'slave' would be incorrect as it does not have a prime mover. If you were to call both 'Slaves' then how do you distinguish a 'slug' from a 'calf' (US) - do you see what I mean?

 

Here is another take on it retaining the prime mover - so a Slave (UK) or Calf (US) or B-Unit (US). 3000HP in multiple.

 I think you've caught my interpretation extremely well.  I could well imagine a latter-day Condor on a job like this. Its big winner is the use of so many standard class 20 parts.