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Imaginary Locomotives

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3 hours ago, AlfaZagato said:

The tank looks distinctly like a Japanese locomotive, down to the brass-reverse number plate on the smokebox door.   As an English application, could call it an import well tank by a Japanese builder.   I think Yamaha was making locomotives in the steam era, but I am likely wrong.

Looks like the Airfix Drewry shunter

I know they did the Pug which is what I presume the first is intended to be. it has the right number!

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3 hours ago, sir douglas said:

came across these while searching for something else, 1:87 scale loco kits by Oriental models

 

"Saddle tank" that isnt a saddle tank, looks like the cab of a pug and the chassis of a kitson dock tank

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/oriental-model-0-4-0-saddle-tank--179829

 

https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/8/2/9/179829-12155-pristine.jpg

 

second a diesel vaguely like a drewry, and no i have no idea whats going on with the coupling rods

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/oriental-model-diesel-locomotive--179828

 

https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/8/2/8/179828-12155-pristine.jpg

The steam locomotive appears to have a tender, and a BR totem on the boiler.

6 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I wonder what track gauge they models are?

Japan is generally 3' 6" apart from Shinkansen

It says HO so I assume that they are 16.5 mm gauge. I wonder if these kits are obtainable today.

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They're described as HO gauge, so presumably the models are 16.5 mm gauge.

 

But do you actually think what's in the box looks any different to the Airfix (now Dapol) L&Y pug and Drewry shunter?

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4 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

They're described as HO gauge, so presumably the models are 16.5 mm gauge.

 

But do you actually think what's in the box looks any different to the Airfix (now Dapol) L&Y pug and Drewry shunter?

In japan that would be 1:80 which would mean the track is closer to the 3' 6" gauge than if it was 1:87

 

Actually I would bet they are Airfix models with fantasy pictures on the box.

Edited by melmerby
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5 minutes ago, melmerby said:

In japan that would be 1:80 which would mean the track is closer to the 3' 6" gauge than if it was 1:87

 

Actually I would bet they are Airfix models with fantasy pictures on the box.

Or copies with enough alterations to get past copyright laws.

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Whatever you do don't type "Oriental Models" into Google as you won't see toy trains!:)

 

Or maybe........

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8 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Whatever you do don't type "Oriental Models" into Google as you won't see toy trains!https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png

 

Or maybe........

 

Don't worry guys I'll take one for the team and check that for you... I may be some time...

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1 hour ago, melmerby said:

Looks like the Airfix Drewry shunter

I know they did the Pug which is what I presume the first is intended to be. it has the right number!

 

Following the links, it’s quite clear that the box contents are the Airfix L&Y “pug” and the box art is just a local re-vamp of the Airfix art by an artist who had no understanding of the subject. 

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11 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

 

Following the links, it’s quite clear that the box contents are the Airfix L&Y “pug” and the box art is just a local re-vamp of the Airfix art by an artist who had no understanding of the subject. 

Or how the artist drew the models he made. 

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30 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Or how the artist drew the models he made. 

 

Ref the account of the Rev Awdry’s opinion of the original illustrations of Percy, in particular. Thomas also bears little resemblance to the Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0T from which the iconic red and blue livery derives, and which could almost have been seen “in the metal” from Awdry’s windows...

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Hi Folks,

 

Here are the BR Non Standards for your amusement:

 

DSCF0818.JPG.b36261ddf4f12531d7b57cb0c5eb9313.JPGBR Non Standard class 5 2-6-2 fast goods engine.

 

DSCF0817.JPG.2f56578f4387ca459a159ed62348187a.JPG

BR Non Standard hump shunter/banking engine with articulated booster fitted bunker.

 

DSCF0819.JPG.89043a8d0a26d43f06ad8a2b9fff6104.JPG

BR Non Standard 2-8-2-2-8-2 Garrett heavy goods engine.

 

DSCF0816.JPG.b8c1d7eeab207591957755d7c6cf63ad.JPG

BR Non Standard Paget/Caprotti bogied Leader style cuntraption !

 

The valve gear would be Caprotti to ease valve gear trouble and I envisage six cylinders per bogie, two driving each axle at 120* crank offsets giving a total of six power pulses per revolution of the wheels all connected by Bulleid style Morse hi-vol chains to reduce reciprocating mass. I shall do a drawing of the cylinder layout later this week.

The cab is centrally placed and more akin to a conventional locomotive unlike Bulleid's Leader and so may be a slight more popular with loco crews.

 

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/paget/paget.htm

 

Gibbo.

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21 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Folks,

 

Here are the BR Non Standards for your amusement:

 

BR Non Standard class 5 2-6-2 fast goods engine.

BR Non Standard hump shunter/banking engine with articulated booster fitted bunker.

BR Non Standard 2-8-2-2-8-2 Garrett heavy goods engine.

BR Non Standard Paget/Caprotti bogied Leader style cuntraption !

 

Gibbo.

Do Dapol have you on a regular delivery schedule?

You must be really helping their cash flow!:yes:

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5 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Do Dapol have you on a regular delivery schedule?

You must be really helping their cash flow!https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_yes.gif

Hi Keith,

 

It certainly  does look that way !

 

They are such fun to chop about though and not too expensive, I had thought of a class 4 double Fairlie and then decided against the idea. I might see what I can do with the Schools class and also the city of Truro and Prairie tank amalgamations. There is always a class 4 BR Non Standard 4-4-0 to be considered.

 

Gibbo.

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Have to say Gibbo, your imagination and cut'n'shut skills are wonderfully combined! In a way, they are better in the raw plastic as we can see all the details; I think if they were painted in BR standard black we wouldn't be able to appreciate so much.

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20 minutes ago, Ramblin Rich said:

Have to say Gibbo, your imagination and cut'n'shut skills are wonderfully combined! In a way, they are better in the raw plastic as we can see all the details; I think if they were painted in BR standard black we wouldn't be able to appreciate so much.

Hi Rich,

 

The way I see life, the greatest reality of my own being is my own imagination, all else is the projected illusion of others.

 

That said, many thanks for the compliment !

 

Gibbo.

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41 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Keith,

 

It certainly  does look that way !

 

They are such fun to chop about though and not too expensive, I had thought of a class 4 double Fairlie and then decided against the idea. I might see what I can do with the Schools class and also the city of Truro and Prairie tank amalgamations. There is always a class 4 BR Non Standard 4-4-0 to be considered.

 

Gibbo.

 

I've been wondering for a while if by slightly elongating the  boiler and firebox you could create a Maunsell Atlantic with 8-wheel bogie tender out of two Dapol Schools kits? By chopping the tenders you get the axle-box etc., to go under the cab, second kit would give up boiler insert rings  and then a cut and shut for a longer tender. That Repton has the enlarged tender suggests if the loco' was that bit bigger it would definitely need greater water capacity and/or room for more coal tonnage.

 

As usual with these imaginary pondering exercises the crunch is what advantages would the LSWR/SR have got if it actually had been built? I guess none unless you reverse the timeline, as the shortness of the 4-4-0 layout was why it got built in the first place (rather than more Arthurs etc.) to fit where the 4-6-0s were too long/big. If it was going to have a place in any fictitious evolution of Eastleigh designs it would be as a build before the Nelsons etc., and be seen as the precursor from which the 4-6-0s were evolved. 

 

Why suggest it - no reason other than I like the look of most Atlantic types.

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1 hour ago, john new said:

 

I've been wondering for a while if by slightly elongating the  boiler and firebox you could create a Maunsell Atlantic with 8-wheel bogie tender out of two Dapol Schools kits? By chopping the tenders you get the axle-box etc., to go under the cab, second kit would give up boiler insert rings  and then a cut and shut for a longer tender. That Repton has the enlarged tender suggests if the loco' was that bit bigger it would definitely need greater water capacity and/or room for more coal tonnage.

 

As usual with these imaginary pondering exercises the crunch is what advantages would the LSWR/SR have got if it actually had been built? I guess none unless you reverse the timeline, as the shortness of the 4-4-0 layout was why it got built in the first place (rather than more Arthurs etc.) to fit where the 4-6-0s were too long/big. If it was going to have a place in any fictitious evolution of Eastleigh designs it would be as a build before the Nelsons etc., and be seen as the precursor from which the 4-6-0s were evolved. 

 

Why suggest it - no reason other than I like the look of most Atlantic types.

The Schools had an unusually stretched Wheelbase with 8' 0" between the rear bogie wheel centre and the first driving wheel centre and 10' 0" between driver centres.

The bogie itself could also be shortened.

If you cram up the wheel spacings to that of a Marsh H1 Atlantic, it should all fit under a Schools boiler as the difference in length is only about a foot,

Marsh Atlantic 35' 10½" from front of buffer to rear of cab floor, Schools is 34' 9¾". That extra foot saving could be gained by having less distance from the rear driving wheel to back of cab floor.

With an outside bearing trailing truck as on the Marsh Atlantic you could also have a wide firebox

 

 

Edited by melmerby
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I've read the Schools described as a 4-6-0 built as a 4-4-0 for operational reasons, though I can't see what those would be as a 4-4-0 would surely have a higher axle-loading.

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On 09/09/2019 at 23:00, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Folks,

 

Here are the BR Non Standards for your amusement:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_09/DSCF0818.JPG.b36261ddf4f12531d7b57cb0c5eb9313.JPGBR Non Standard class 5 2-6-2 fast goods engine.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_09/DSCF0817.JPG.2f56578f4387ca459a159ed62348187a.JPG

BR Non Standard hump shunter/banking engine with articulated booster fitted bunker.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_09/DSCF0819.JPG.89043a8d0a26d43f06ad8a2b9fff6104.JPG

BR Non Standard 2-8-2-2-8-2 Garrett heavy goods engine.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_09/DSCF0816.JPG.b8c1d7eeab207591957755d7c6cf63ad.JPG

BR Non Standard Paget/Caprotti bogied Leader style cuntraption !

 

The valve gear would be Caprotti to ease valve gear trouble and I envisage six cylinders per bogie, two driving each axle at 120* crank offsets giving a total of six power pulses per revolution of the wheels all connected by Bulleid style Morse hi-vol chains to reduce reciprocating mass. I shall do a drawing of the cylinder layout later this week.

The cab is centrally placed and more akin to a conventional locomotive unlike Bulleid's Leader and so may be a slight more popular with loco crews.

 

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/paget/paget.htm

 

Gibbo.

Now here's a thought. That last loco, the one with the bogies-how about ditching the Paget style multi-cylinder arrangement, and instead having an underslung turbine between the bogies, driving each bogie though a cardan shaft and reversible final drive? Or even, if there's space, driving through a fluid coupling?

Edited by rodent279
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2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I've read the Schools described as a 4-6-0 built as a 4-4-0 for operational reasons, though I can't see what those would be as a 4-4-0 would surely have a higher axle-loading.

 

There is much disagreement among authors on this but a shorter frame means much less overhang on tight curves on the Hastings line. It did have higher axle loading but also had a higher tractive effort than a Lord Nelson.

 

EDIT: Maunsell's original plan for the Hastings line was a fast 2-6-4T, but changed his mind after Sevenoaks. It would be interesting to imagine a bigger version of a K1 with 6'7" driving wheels.

 

Cheers

David

Edited by DavidB-AU
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9 hours ago, john new said:

 

I've been wondering for a while if by slightly elongating the  boiler and firebox you could create a Maunsell Atlantic with 8-wheel bogie tender out of two Dapol Schools kits? By chopping the tenders you get the axle-box etc., to go under the cab, second kit would give up boiler insert rings  and then a cut and shut for a longer tender. That Repton has the enlarged tender suggests if the loco' was that bit bigger it would definitely need greater water capacity and/or room for more coal tonnage.

 

As usual with these imaginary pondering exercises the crunch is what advantages would the LSWR/SR have got if it actually had been built? I guess none unless you reverse the timeline, as the shortness of the 4-4-0 layout was why it got built in the first place (rather than more Arthurs etc.) to fit where the 4-6-0s were too long/big. If it was going to have a place in any fictitious evolution of Eastleigh designs it would be as a build before the Nelsons etc., and be seen as the precursor from which the 4-6-0s were evolved. 

 

Why suggest it - no reason other than I like the look of most Atlantic types.

Hi John,

 

The driving wheels might need a reduction in size, the wheels and frame of the Prairie tank might be the way to go with two Schools class on top of it all.

 

Gibbo.

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7 hours ago, rodent279 said:

Now here's a thought. That last loco, the one with the bogies-how about ditching the Paget style multi-cylinder arrangement, and instead having an underslung turbine between the bogies, driving each bogie though a cardan shaft and reversible final drive? Or even, if there's space, driving through a fluid coupling?

Hi Rodent,

 

I'm not that bonkers !

 

Why not buy some kits and hack them about  and wee can all then see what such a contraption would look like. The Reid Ramsey locomotive comes to mind.

 

Gibbo.

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9 hours ago, DavidB-AU said:

 

There is much disagreement among authors on this but a shorter frame means much less overhang on tight curves on the Hastings line. It did have higher axle loading but also had a higher tractive effort than a Lord Nelson.

 

EDIT: Maunsell's original plan for the Hastings line was a fast 2-6-4T, but changed his mind after Sevenoaks. It would be interesting to imagine a bigger version of a K1 with 6'7" driving wheels.

 

Cheers

David

Higher Tractive Effort?

The Schools had 25,130lbf, a Nelson had 33,510lbf

Even the axle load is almost the same as a Schools had 21 Ton  0 cwt and a Nelson 20 Ton 19 cwt (max)

 

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4 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Rodent,

 

I'm not that bonkers !

 

Why not buy some kits and hack them about  and wee can all then see what such a contraption would look like. The Reid Ramsey locomotive comes to mind.

 

Gibbo.

 

these seem more hallucinatory than imaginary..

 

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/reidmac/reidmac.htm

 

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/reidrams/reidrams.htm

 

This appears at first glance to be the result of a particularly serious derailment, possibly involving a rotary snow-blower or potato picking rig, but apparently it is SUPPOSED to look like this;

 

22150386-A43C-4B83-8317-12D9C1978292.jpeg.6c6ef3661a2ef46ad15c38bca4967802.jpeg

Edited by rockershovel
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17 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

also the city of Truro and Prairie tank amalgamations.

City of Truro's Std 4 boiler on the Prairie tank chassis/tanks/bunker would give you a 3150 class. Technically there ought to be a fair few other detail changes, but its not a mile away... The cab and bunker are a bit different and the Churchward loco doesn't have the Holcroft radius at the front end.

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