sem34090 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I really like your reproductions of Mr Collett's MLV's... seems it wasn't just the NER that built them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62613 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Incomplete combustion, equating to inefficient use of the fuel, quite apart from the production of particulates and toxic gas. Yeah, don't I know it! 'Hello, engine room? Chief here; you're smoking!' Incomplete combustion also implies less steam production Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPH 603 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I've thought about very similar ideas of converted Gresley coaches into EMU's before, and in one instance using Thompson stock! Good to se the old thread running again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted January 12, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2018 I had a play with a few Hornby catalogue images in MS paint: apologies if anything similar has already been posted! GWR Articulated EMU (Collet).jpg First up, a GWR Collett Bow-Ended Overhead EMU, articulated (Because, why not?!) and shown in BR Days wearing Crimson and Cream for reasons unknown, given it should really be MU green. Inspired by discussions over the GWR's plans for electrification, GWR 3rd Rail EMU.jpg Another idea, based on their close neighbour's example, and to allow inter-regional services to be run more efficiently, Collett's take on the Southern's 2-BIL unit, suitably enhanced to provide decent competition to their rivals. Again, it seems this unit is anachronistically painted in Crimson and Cream. Trust the Western to do something odd...( ) SR Single Coach EMU.jpg Continuing the EMU theme, we have a single coach Passenger unit, modified from half of a 2-Hal set of which the other half had been partially destroyed in an accident in the 1950's. The cab end from the DM(or is it T?)S was rebuilt onto the rear of the DMBS. Following this rebuild it found use on the Horsted Keynes - Haywards Heath branch where service was limited. It is seen here right at the end of its life. Following the closure of the branch, the unit bounced around the network a bit before being claimed for deicing duties and departmental use. It was withdrawn in 1984, and can currently be found mouldering away under a tarpaulin right up the end of the Ardingly Spur on the Bluebell. When the line is restored to Haywards Heath, there may be plans to electrify it and this unique vehicle will once again form a shuttle between Haywards Heath and Horsted Keynes. Bulleid Refined Leader.jpg Bulleid's refined, light and mechanically stoked ( ) leader... 'nuff said really... Finally, a Sentinel Industrial Master and Slave unit. May have been of use to LT, where their 6wDH sentinels had issues with track circuits due to their short wheelbase. Sentinel Master & Slave Units.jpg I think I'll leave it at that... or not... there's more horrors to come! I can't think how to describe these... Maunsell Push-Pull trailer, combined with an Adams Radial (Looking more like a Beattie Well Tank), and a Drummond Boiler. If it was in Bulleid Malachite we'd have a bit of each of the LSWR CME's except Urie. Lettered up for a fictional route heading South from Barnham towards Selsey (LBSCR Station). Don't ask... that said, I'm quite pleased with them... BR (S) Steam Railmotor, Barnham - Selsey.jpg Some lovely pictures there. However I don't think a single coach 3rd rail MU works - too much chance of getting gapped - hence 3rd rail locomotives having diesel engines (or flywheels). I know the MLV's had batteries to let them work off the 3rd rail, but presumably (if they ever ran alone on 3rd rail power) they would have needed batteries as back-up power. The guided bus can, and does, cross 'general highways' - the guideway ends temporarily and restarts on the other side. It does run south of Cambridge on a short section of the 'Varsity' line - but the majority is north of Cambridge on the former Cambridge - St. Ives branch. Regards, John Isherwood. So far as I recall, the Edinburgh guided busway (before it turned into a tramway) had breaks in the guides at the bus stops to help people cross, with a rather low speed limit at each one, which must have slowed things down at less busy times when the bus could otherwise have sailed past some stops. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted January 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2018 The LNER express diesel fleet to replace ECML pacifics, agreed in principle by the LNER board but lost and forgotten due to aftermath of WW2 and nationalisation, author Michael Bonavia wrote on the subject, Woodhead and Great Eastern suburban electrification projects became the priority and diesel fleet proposal quietly forgotten i wonder what the locos would have resembled , similar to an EM1 or EM2 but in a diesel electric form, or an American influence such as LMS 10000. The LNER electrification engineer having been sent to the USA to look into dieselisation of the USA railroads. Weren’t Alco involved in this idea? Take an RS-1, narrow the footplates down the sides (or remove them completely) and move a (lower-roofed) cab to one end. Run them “20 style” nose to nose... just an idea: not up to the required level of photoshopping, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted January 13, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2018 No cars, no congestion till they have to join real roads, and the busway can be narrower as the bus is kept on line by the track, politicians get brownie points if it works, they like big projects.. What happens when a bus breaks down and cannot move on its own? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TheQ Posted January 13, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2018 What happens when a bus breaks down and cannot move on its own? https://youtu.be/zO3PZh55gXg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 What happens when a bus breaks down and cannot move on its own? Much the same as with a broken-down train. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) Weren’t Alco involved in this idea? Take an RS-1, narrow the footplates down the sides (or remove them completely) and move a (lower-roofed) cab to one end. Run them “20 style” nose to nose... just an idea: not up to the required level of photoshopping, though. No need for photoshop - existing Alco export models probably close to what would have been, here's one in LNER livery.... or the European sized RS-1 Edited January 13, 2018 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) Both, no doubt, too big for the British loading gauge, particularly round the roof, though the RS-1 would require less work to fit unless a major part of the diesel engine itself is out of gauge. The NSWGR 40 Class (an RSC-3 variant) had the upper cabsides tapered to stay in gauge. Perhaps that combined with the low cab above might have worked for the UK (probably some alterations to the end step and plates too, to clear platforms). Edited January 13, 2018 by BernardTPM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted January 13, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) No need for photoshop - existing Alco export models probably close to what would have been, here's one in LNER livery.... iq-alco2101.jpg Nice. Maybe put a.m. EM1 cab on it? I think it could be made to fit the UK’s leading gauge, although like many of our home grown diesel locos, it would be a fitter’s nightmare inside.Also not that to be an RSC-1 (A1A-A1A). Necessary to keep the axle loads down. or the European sized RS-1 20070611-AIR-A204-0002.jpg Probably too wide for the UK. Edited January 13, 2018 by Regularity Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) I've found a couple of Alco drawings with the 'insides' shown. Certainly the radiator/cooling fan arrangement looks more suited to modification that the GM arrangement which would require total redesign. To give an idea of the reduction in space, here's 10000 end elevation to the same scale as an Alco PA: The reduction in width overall isn't that great (especially if you discount the Alco's handrails) but the overall height and the much rounder roof make for a much more restricted space in which to mount the components. Edited January 13, 2018 by BernardTPM 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) Another similar comparison. This time the end of 10000 against the side 'ghost' view of an RS-3 (good because both are 1600hp machines again). The overall roof height just about matches that of the Alco's hood, but as this is within the very curved roof profile it's quite likely that the engine wouldn't fit at that height above the rails. OK, so the engine needs to be dropped somewhere around six to nine inches in a well within the frame. And that frame needs to be narrower because, at that height, it mustn't conflict with platforms. If you're the GWR and you don't mind restricting it to Red or Double Red routes then axle load shouldn't be a problem, but if you're the LNER or LMS and want the equivalent of a B1 or Black 5 then you probably need to add a couple of carrying axles. The engine well has to fit between the (now longer) bogies, of course. A hood with an offset cab would give very poor visibility (possibly worse than a steam loco, especially at the long end) so the cab needs to go to one end; this being the mid/late '40s a cab at both ends with a hood between doesn't seem to have been thought of yet. No doubt it could have been done, but it's more complex than just sticking an EM1 cab on an existing design. The EM1 type cab wouldn't be a bad idea though - commonality of driving controls, position, visibility, etc. (Not sure that you should let Metropolitan Vickers build your diesels though, though they're good with straight electrics. EE are a safer bet on the diesel front....) RS type amended as noted below Edited January 13, 2018 by BernardTPM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted January 13, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2018 An RS-1 is 1,000hp, not 1,600. It also has a less rounded nose. What you have there is either an RS-2 (usually 1,500hp) or an RS-3 (1,600hp). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted January 13, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2018 Much the same as with a broken-down train. Regards, John Isherwood. Except that in some cases a broken down train can be rescued by another service train rather than requiring a dedicated "recovery vehicle" to get it out of the way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 14, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2018 In most cases a failed train is assisted out of the section it is blocking by the following train, which is overwhelmingly most likely to be a service train. One would not have thought it beyond the wit of man to devise some sort of device, perhaps inflatable, to act as a temporary buffer between buses on a guided busway so that a broken down one could be pushed out of the way. On the other hand, it is probably just as easy to send a recovery vehicle in 'wrong road' to tow the cripple out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted January 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2018 In most cases a failed train is assisted out of the section it is blocking by the following train, which is overwhelmingly most likely to be a service train. One would not have thought it beyond the wit of man to devise some sort of device, perhaps inflatable, to act as a temporary buffer between buses on a guided busway so that a broken down one could be pushed out of the way. On the other hand, it is probably just as easy to send a recovery vehicle in 'wrong road' to tow the cripple out. I would imagine the bus behind would get to it somewhat more quickly than a recovery vehicle. Or reversing the bus ahead to tow it out. (Hmmm - how does reversing work on a busway? The guide wheels are at the front... I couldn't see if the recovery vehicle had guide wheels.) But you would probably need some significant modifications for it to be practical (and legal?) to use a service bus to push or pull another bus and I doubt it's worth it. The fundamental difference with trains is that they're already designed to be coupled up and run together (and we're quite happy to design that out for rescuing trains by mixing trains with incompatible couplings on the same route). So trains probably have an advantage over guided buses in this respect, but trains aren't quite as good at coming off their tracks and driving on regular roads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted January 14, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2018 Aye. Possible, but not really worth the effort. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted January 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2018 Aye. Possible, but not really worth the effort. Yes - as I recall that one didn't last very long in road-rail service. However, when we find out who has the next Welsh franchise and what their clever plans are for the Valleys, maybe we'll find that instead of tram-trains we'll get train-buses that can come off the lines at the termini and carry on to serve places that no longer have a rail connection. I'm sure the wheel lifting thing could be a bit more automated these days than in the picture there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2018 The Oxford road/rail Land Rovers come with access ramps so they can get on to the track. Its quite possible that the rescue vehicle has similar equipment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) Yes - as I recall that one didn't last very long in road-rail service. However, when we find out who has the next Welsh franchise and what their clever plans are for the Valleys, maybe we'll find that instead of tram-trains we'll get train-buses that can come off the lines at the termini and carry on to serve places that no longer have a rail connection. I'm sure the wheel lifting thing could be a bit more automated these days than in the picture there. The major fault with the Karrier/LMS system was its complication and poor ride on rails. Modern systems only use the (separate) rail wheels to guide the vehicles. EDIT spelling. Edited January 14, 2018 by PhilJ W Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted January 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2018 The Oxford road/rail Land Rovers come with access ramps so they can get on to the track. Its quite possible that the rescue vehicle has similar equipment. Possibly - but that would presumably require it to get there along the parallel cycleway, which would have to be done fairly slowly I would have thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 How does the Irish loading gauge compare (not track gauge!) With that of the mainland UK? There's some very US looking machines there, plus narrow body with cab at each end: http://briansolomon.com/trackingthelight/tag/irish-rail/page/2/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 It must be pretty generous in height at least, as the class 121 seems a wee bit taller than the MKIII stock and taller than the class 071 I assume it's a tad more generous in width too, as Irish track gauge is 5'3" In my alternative universe, BR imported the 071s en masse in the 70s to get rid of their fleet of wrecks. And in that better universe, they latterly handled all ScotRail services in large logo blue... 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted January 14, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2018 We sort of did that in the 1980s, with the more powerful class 59... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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