American 3-rail O, coarse scale

[sncf231e]

Weaver uses QSI ProtoSound. Whether this is the same as Railsounds I do not know.

Regards

Fred

[rockershovel]

27 minutes ago, sncf231e said:

Weaver uses QSI ProtoSound. Whether this is the same as Railsounds I do not know.

Regards

Fred

 

Protosound follows on from Railsounds, I think they were all QSI products. 

 

I have a MTH Pennsylvania RR K4S with Protosound 1, presently in the process of conversion to a later system (Dallee, as it happens) because the PS1 card appears to have been scrambled by the PO (which is why I got it so cheaply!). Which PS system do you have, and how do you find it? 

[sncf231e]

3 hours ago, rockershovel said:

 

Which PS system do you have, and how do you find it? 

I do not know what Proto Sound the Weaver is. I have Proto Sound 1, 2 and 3 locomotives and find the ProtoSound 1 locomotives from MTH quite problematic. The 2 and 3 seems to work OK. I have ao a PS1 Big Boy and that runs when I use a ZW transformer but it does not operate on a MTH Z4000. All should have used DCC I think.

Regards

Feed

[rockershovel]

36 minutes ago, sncf231e said:

I do not know what Proto Sound the Weaver is. I have Proto Sound 1, 2 and 3 locomotives and find the ProtoSound 1 locomotives from MTH quite problematic. The 2 and 3 seems to work OK. I have ao a PS1 Big Boy and that runs when I use a ZW transformer but it does not operate on a MTH Z4000. All should have used DCC I think.

Regards

Feed

 

Too many functions on PS1, I think. I’ve heard a good deal about it, and none of it is good. DCC is far superior, without a doubt. 

[rockershovel]

Moving along, I’ve been tinkering with some of the “accessories” that Lionel is so associated with

 

- I’ve now got the coal loader working, and screwed down alongside one of the sidings. I fitted one if those retro light switches to control it, and it looks the part. Need some “coal” now, I gather that having the right size is very important...

 

- I’ve removed a Centre-Rail pin to create a dead block, to prevent locos over-running the switch controlling the reversing loop / main loop junction. The switches have current isolation, like older Triang ones so it is powered by the switch position 

 

- I’ve fitted a dwarf ground signal to control this junction, wired to track current. It shows green when the switch is set in favour of oncoming traffic on the main loop, red when the switch is against oncoming traffic on the outer loop, and red AND green when the sidings are live from the other end .. I didn’t intend this, it’s a function of the track layout, but it’s a useful reminder to reset BOTH switches after using the reversing loop.

 

- I’d looked at having these switches powered, to use the anti-derailing feature - but I note that the instructions advise that there needs to be enough track clear either side, that the solenoids aren’t constantly powered, and I don’t have enough space for that. 

[brianusa]

A lot of my sound equipped Lionel locos have sound problems which over the years I have let go.  I never was a huge remote control fan and rely on the MTHZ4K to run the trains most of the time.  The sound equipped engines that are still running continue to give good service although the smoke units are quitting one by one.  That doesn't bother me much either and time you send each one away to be fixed it gets expensive.   On the bright side, a lot of the older ones perform just like new, sound and all!  Also lately, I've been expanding my Hornby O gauge collection so a lot less problems arise.

     Brian.

[BR60103]

The people that make the "I love Toy Trains" videos have one of accessory fails. They show a coal loader just spewing coal out of the top that misses the car that's sitting there.

 

[rockershovel]

1 hour ago, BR60103 said:

The people that make the "I love Toy Trains" videos have one of accessory fails. They show a coal loader just spewing coal out of the top that misses the car that's sitting there.

 

 

I’ve certainly found with the coal loader, that you need to get the voltage right. Older Lionel transformers have varying combinations of output pins to give 12, 14 and 20v, I have used it with a variable output and that’s quite effective! There is also a Perspex deflector plate at the top of the conveyor, I was warned about this when I bought it - they are often lost or damaged and THAT can result in the load being dropped over quite a wide area. 

 

[rockershovel]

I’ve just spent half an hour testing with the multimeter and adding droppers where there seem to be low voltage spots or bad connections, particularly around the 45deg diamond crossing. 

 

Why haven’t I got any solder? 

[rockershovel]

Moving along, I’ve started preparations for another experiment - automatic start and stop, using non-derailing points. With a certain amount of manipulation of isolated outer rails, it’s possible to have a circuit with a passing loop, and two trains which start and stop alternately. 

 

This brings up another detail, which is ensuring that the loco couplers are isolated from following cars, so that the traction current  doesn’t  try to bypass the isolated rails through them. I think this can be achieved by the “right” combination of couplers - because they are variously metal, or plastic depending upon age and type - but I need to look into this in more detail. 

[rockershovel]

I’ve just received the MTH K4S back. The Dallee sound card now fitted does, indeed, sound and operate much like the one in my BLI On30 2-8-0, which is more-or-less what I had intended. 

 

I notice that the loco displays RED class lights, facing forward. I can’t understand what this denotes, but can’t worry about it. All the other ones display green lights, green jewels (older Lionel, and Williams Hudson) or white lights (the K Line semi-scale Hudson) ; the brass Williams 4-6-2 doesn’t have them. 

 

[rockershovel]

On 02/10/2019 at 22:17, rockershovel said:

 

Sorting through the various boxes, I’ve got

- a complete oval of O-36 Fast Track plus some additional O-72 curves, half a circle. This is all pretty much “as new” so I’m intending to keep it for “carpet” duty on special occasions. 

 

 

 

After various experiments, the O72 didn’t prove to be a full semi-circle. I picked up a circle of O48 along the way, and I’ve now sourced the “missing” O72 to make a half-circle. 

 

Fast Track is definitely superior to tubular for carpet duty! More stable, better electrically and it provides a closed surface to keep the fluff out of the loco. 

 

I’ve presently re-laid the test track in the study floor with a combination of O36 and O72, to provide transitions into and out of the O36, minimise overhang round most of the length and generally make best use of the space. If I had room I’d use O48 and O72, but I don’t have room. 

 

The K4 romps round with 8 cars, including a lighted caboose with its own current pickups. I don’t know if the scale-length Hudson will handle it, I’ll try that next... I suspect the oversized front pilot wheels will foul on the O36, though. 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by rockershovel

[rockershovel]

From various comments made on OGRR forum, it seems that the Dallee cards are descended, more or less, from the QSI cards fitted to BIL locos (among others) in the early 2000s. I’m particularly thinking of the units fitted to the On30 C-16 locos, which ran on 12v DC or DCC (ie, 19v AC) because (a) I own one so I’m familiar with it (b) they were specifically advertised with this as a feature, which suggests they were unusual. 

 

The main feature is that on DC, they run as follows;

 

- apply about 3v, they run through a “start-up sequence” of steam, pump and dynamo sounds

- hold this voltage, they don’t move, but continue a “holding” sound sequence

- flick the reverse button on the controller, bell. Momentarily interrupt power using the button, horn (or the other way about, depending on which rail is positive) 

- increase voltage to about 5v and it moves. Bell and horn can be controlled while moving, the same way. 

- decrease power to about 3v and it stops, running a “holding” sound sequence

- shut off power and it goes through a “shut off steam sounds” sequence. 

Apply DCC and it runs as you would expect. It’s a simple, reliable system. DCC mode includes some sounds (brake squeal, for one) which don’t appear; it also provides electronic volume control, although both are affected by the volume control on the tender. Direction is controlled from the handset. The facility to vary the inertia etc, isn’t present on DC. There is no electronic uncoupler on either mode (the loco has Kaydee couplers as standard, though). There are none of the “clang, bleep and ding” shenanigans associated with PS1, which seems to be contemporary if I have the dates right. 

 

The repairer replaced the troublesome PS1 system with a Dallee. Operation on 20v AC is much as described above, with bell and whistle controlled from the usual buttons on a Rail King or Lionel KW controller. So far, so good. Chuck also fitted a reverser on/off switch, which wasn’t previously fitted. 

 

So, I tried it on 12v DC. The result is that the loco performs as the BIL 2-8-0, with the “chuff” running constantly and the bell and whistle controlled by the reverse button on the controller. Reverser cycles by operating the reverser button on the controller to interrupt power. I’m rather pleased with all this, because it means this loco can be rostered for “club running days” duty. Whether it would run on my DCC supply, I don’t know but I doubt it; anyway it doesn’t have enough power for O Gauge locos. 

Edited August 29, 2020 by rockershovel

[rockershovel]

The Williams Hudson is fine with O36 curves not exceeding 90 deg, with and O48 or O72 transition, so that’s useful to know..

[rockershovel]

I’ve just been following a thread on OGRR Forum, about the QSI chip and soundcard fitted to some PS1 equipped MTH locos. It seems that these chips were developed to include an “isolate unit” function, ie the loco could be instructed to disregard commands and simply sit there, cycling through the “stationary steam sounds” cycle, while another loco was operated in the same block. Of course, older AC motored Lionel locos could do this by switching the lever protruding from the shell for that purpose. 

 

It was also possible to command it remotely to start in the same direction again, ie not cycle through the F-N-R sequence (which was also a function of the reverse lever on older Lionel locos).

 

However the PS1 equipped locos didn’t have these functions on the sound and drive cards, so a “window” existed by which incorrect operation could trip the “neutral” setting with no way to disengage it again, and the loco would remain locked irretrievably in neutral. The only solution would be to change the programme chip and Reset All, at which point there might be further problems cycling the control card. 

 

 

[rockershovel]

Here’s a selection of MPC and modern era, Lionel cars - all in Chessie System livery. This was a 70s/80s era holding company including Chesapeake and Ohio, Western Maryland and Baltimore and Ohio, plus various minor RR. It was a “diesel era” entity, and I don’t have any diesels... well, shucks. So it goes. 

 

 

top to bottom...

 

side tip car, a long-time Lionel favourite in various forms. Die-cast chassis, a heavy old thing which needs marshalling near the front of the train! Needed a bit of “fettling” to get the tipper working properly, but works well now. No real prototype but consistent with other 1:50 scale items. 

 

MPC era 2-bay hopper, all plastic construction. Another long-time Lionel favourite, “traditional post-War” size, probably about 1:53 scale? Bigger than O27, anyway. 

 

Modern era 4-bay hopper, all plastic, about 1:50 scale I suppose. 

 

Modern era boxcar, all plastic with sliding doors. Traditional post-War size. 

 

Caboose, modern era. Plastic body, steel chassis with current collectors for the interior lighting and flashing rear marker - as heavy as some locos! About 1:50 scale. 

 

 

 

[F-UnitMad]

1 hour ago, rockershovel said:

and I don’t have any diesels... well, shucks. So it goes.

Well you know the answer to that, then....   

 

[rockershovel]

35 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

Well you know the answer to that, then....   

 

 

... I STILL don’t have any diesels? 

 

Diesels just don’t appeal, I’m afraid. I had a protracted and thoroughly unsatisfactory experience of commuting in the last days of diesel-hauled carriage stock trains on ECML, and that was that. If railway enthusiasm is rooted in nostalgia, then standing on a crowded platform waiting for a delayed train to work, being stranded on an unlit, Un-heated train in the Hitchin area or standing interminably in the Arctic bedlam of Kings Cross, just don’t qualify. 

 

That said, a Lionel “war-bonnet” F3 somehow symbolises the glamour of US rail travel (although I never actually saw one..) and if I ever buy a US outline diesel, it would be one of those. 

[F-UnitMad]

35 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

 

 

That said, a Lionel “war-bonnet” F3 somehow symbolises the glamour of US rail travel (although I never actually saw one..) and if I ever buy a US outline diesel, it would be one of those. 

Oh YES!!! Go on, go on, go on....   

 

 

[BR60103]

I could get away with buying things with Chessie on them -- my wife would approve them.  She even did a Chessie in needlepoint.

The smaller hopper looks like the same mould as one from my first (1953) Lionel O27 set.

 

[rockershovel]

The Williams Scale Hudson now has a slightly revised front pilot (bogie). 

 

I originally swapped the 14mm dia plastic wheels for 17mm steel wheels from Walsall Model Engineering. This greatly improved the appearance, but left it with clearance issues on curves below O42

 

I’ve now swapped them for a similar set 15.5mm dia. These seem to cope with O36 curves and still look much better than the originals 

[rockershovel]

I’ve had the 1980s MPC era 4-6-4 on the worktop. This is basically a re-release of the 1950s model, with the open-frame AC universal motor, mechanical reverser and lever (the only one of my locos which actually has this feature in working order), and the infamous “Sound of Steam” in the tender.

 

This is an early electronic system featuring a rather asthmatic “chuffing” Sound which is... well, it’s better than the Tri-Ang “side of a matchbox” effort, that’s all I’ll say. The whistle is distinctly “Casio keyboard” and is sometimes referred to as the “dying cow” or “barking seal” which describes its rather mournful, honking tone quite well, but I suppose that by the standards of the time it’s state-of-the-art. It needs some work, so I’ve temporarily paired the loco with an older, Post War tender complete with air whistle, which I quite like. 

 

In a spirit if enquiry, I put some smoke oil in it and let it have a canter around the study floor test loop. Wow, this thing SMOKES, although I suppose that given the voltage it requires to goad the open-frame motor into action, I suppose that isn’t surprising.

[brianusa]

I bought the Blue Comet set about the same time followed by the add on diner.  A pretty set, Lionel sized with the same SOS tender.  About the same time, Lionel's cheap line had a 2-4-0 loco which featured a sound tender which comprised a number of small ball bearings in a large roller wheel in contact with the middle rail, which gave a reasonable noise as it moved along the track.  No worse than the more expensive SOS tender. 

        Brian.

[rockershovel]

39 minutes ago, brianusa said:

I bought the Blue Comet set about the same time followed by the add on diner.  A pretty set, Lionel sized with the same SOS tender.  About the same time, Lionel's cheap line had a 2-4-0 loco which featured a sound tender which comprised a number of small ball bearings in a large roller wheel in contact with the middle rail, which gave a reasonable noise as it moved along the track.  No worse than the more expensive SOS tender. 

        Brian.

 

I found this.. what an amazing thing!

 

 

 

[rockershovel]

Just seen this on OGR Forum, thought it was worth posting the link. Lovely work, fascinating vintage brass locos https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/lobaugh-early-middle-and-late-and-really-late?reply=152054912839662558#152054912839662558