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'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement


Hattons Dave
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A full brake would be nice, except for SECR as that would need a birdcage look out in the centre on the roof top. I'm not sure if other railways full brakes were like that.

 

My first thought as an SECR fan was why would I need 15 4/6 wheelers dominating my SECR rolling stock? But looking at photos tonight, they were quite common on trains even in 1920. And I even found mixed rakes of 100ft birdcage bogies within such trains. They definately look more apt behind a H class in SECR colours or a P class and maybe Terrier on the Sheppy line.

 

Next question, do I need DCC ready sophisticated lighting on such coaches considering the Bachmann birdcages are without?

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The picture is of London Chatham and Dover railway carriages and the drawing appear to have square windows, so perhaps they could pass for those, except, on Hatton's Pre-Group map the LC&DR does not exist, neither does the Cambrian, but then they are nothing like Cambrian coaches, except perhaps early ones.  I will have to have a good hard look.

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On the matter of 6wheel/ 4wheel coaches, quite a lot of 1880s era coaches started life as 6 wheelers, but got converted at a later date to 4wheelers, simplification of:maintenance probably the main reason. You can usually pick them out by a strengthening truss placed amidships. Back on the starter to this thread, the second vehicle in the header photo is one, and there’s one in the LMS set shown.

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3 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Sadly I'm not amazed, just disappointed, that within hours of being offered something no-one had yesterday that some want something different from what's being offered. If you want them that much there's other (traditional) ways of getting what you want.

 

Also, these coaches are £30. I'd say even if you bought it and threw in the bin the bits you didnt need, you'd still be doing well.

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Perhaps the reason for no LBSCR version is because Dapol are already working on accurate 0 Gauge versions and it would make sense for them to scale them down to 00 in the future given all the Terriers they're making for Rails. It wouldn't surprise me if Rails weren't already planning the 00 versions with Dapol. 

 

All me being entirely presumptuous of course. 

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I will be interested to see the chassis length of the 6 wheeler. Will it do as a basis for a Palethorpes van for instance. If so there could be a grounded body in my S&T depot and a few summerhouses for sale on Ebay. Or perhaps Hattons could do a sausage van of the right length.

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20 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

A full brake would be nice, except for SECR as that would need a birdcage look out in the centre on the roof top. I'm not sure if other railways full brakes were like that.

 

My first thought as an SECR fan was why would I need 15 4/6 wheelers dominating my SECR rolling stock? But looking at photos tonight, they were quite common on trains even in 1920. And I even found mixed rakes of 100ft birdcage bogies within such trains. They definately look more apt behind a H class in SECR colours or a P class and maybe Terrier on the Sheppy line.

 

Next question, do I need DCC ready sophisticated lighting on such coaches considering the Bachmann birdcages are without?

 

100ft? Are you mistaking the 100 seaters of five a side, 10 compartment carriages designed for urban areas. Approximately 5 foot long compartments give 50 feet give or take a foot or two.

 

https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/secr100.html

 

 

 

Jason

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34 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

A full brake would be nice, except for SECR as that would need a birdcage look out in the centre on the roof top. I'm not sure if other railways full brakes were like that.

 

My first thought as an SECR fan was why would I need 15 4/6 wheelers dominating my SECR rolling stock? But looking at photos tonight, they were quite common on trains even in 1920. And I even found mixed rakes of 100ft birdcage bogies within such trains. They definately look more apt behind a H class in SECR colours or a P class and maybe Terrier on the Sheppy line.

 

Next question, do I need DCC ready sophisticated lighting on such coaches considering the Bachmann birdcages are without?

 

 

According to the hattons spec, the lighting (on the 5 quid more lit versions) provide:

 

Warm LEDs used on lit versions

18-pin decoder socket in lit models for digital control

Lights will come on when power is applied through the track for analogue users or on digital without a decoder

 

So if you don't need lights, save a fiver and do without.  If you want lights, they'll work on DC or DCC without a decoder whenever the track is energised and if you want to switch them on or off*, then you'll need to spend money on decoders.

 

I'm in two minds, I'd like lighting, but perhaps I could do without!

 

* It could be that the DCC options might also include flicker for an oil lamp effect.

 

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Dunsignalling,

 

The SR did a better job: they took the centre axles off, and used them as LWB four-wheeler PP sets.

 

I don’t know about other SR constituents, but the Brighton finished off its 6-wheeler fleet by putting pairs of bodies onto bogie underframes, to make three car sets, brake third-composite-brake third, which ran well into SR days........ so that’s six sausage vans straight away - full English breakfast?

 

Kevin

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11 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Dunsignalling,

 

The SR did a better job: they took the centre axles off, and used them as LWB four-wheeler PP sets.

 

I don’t know about other SR constituents, but the Brighton finished off its 6-wheeler fleet by putting pairs of bodies onto bogie underframes, to make three car sets, brake third-composite-brake third, which ran well into SR days........ so that’s six sausage vans straight away - full English breakfast?

 

Kevin

Ah, that's an earlier sort of p-p set than I was thinking of.

 

John

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This announcement is incredible!!!! But PLEASE @Hattons Dave we need full brakes! They are a must for any pre-grouping layout! :)

 

Pre-ordered way too many already, can't wait for batch 3 to become pre-orderable! :lol:

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John

 

Late 1920s recycling, after they’d come off the Sevenoaks suburban workings.

 

Thats how some got to the IoW, although I think they were deployed on other lines too, the Gravesend West branch, for instance.

 

There is a 1927 photo of three LCDR 6-wheelers in use on the Westerham Branch in here (keep scrolling down) http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/w/westerham/index1.shtml , but I can't tell whether they have been converted to PP or not. the loco isn't a PP one, but then the SR was notorious for using PP stock as ordinary stock, some diagrams on the Oxted Lines requiring PP sets to get mixed in with other coaches for part of the day, for instance.

 

K

 

 

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2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

discussion of the accuracy of the EP should be interesting.

 

:rolleyes:

I think Hattons have made it crystal clear that these models are not accurate to any prototype. I think that's a refreshingly brave route to take. Someone deliberately making fictional models rather than claiming they are making accurate models and then getting roasted over incorrect details.

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2 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

I think Hattons have made it crystal clear that these models are not accurate to any prototype. I think that's a refreshingly brave route to take. Someone deliberately making fictional models rather than claiming they are making accurate models and then getting roasted over incorrect details.

 

Stand by for  infinite 'how I adapted my Genesis coaches to have a more prototypical roof profile / duckets / windows / brakegear / whatever it is for X railway' articles over every magazine for 5 years to come.

 

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1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

100ft? Are you mistaking the 100 seaters of five a side, 10 compartment carriages designed for urban areas. Approximately 5 foot long compartments give 50 feet give or take a foot or two.

 

https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/secr100.html

 

 

 

Jason

Indeed. 100ft would have been exceptionnel for the period! 

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These look great!

 

One observation, I'm slightly surprised that the 4-coach SR set includes a lavatory vehicle.  I'd have thought the target market for these might have been people wanting to recreate Isle of Wight formations of the 1930s (as shown in Hattons' own list of sample formations) and these wouldn't have had lavatories.  Looks like I'll be ordering individual vehicles and not the 4-coach set...

 

Also, how easy will it be to remove the "removeable" centre wheelset from the 6-wheelers?  Will it just pop-out in your hand?  (Again, I think former 6-wheelers usually ran as 4-wheelers on the IOW).

 

Well done to Hattons for filling a large gap in the market!

 

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1 hour ago, JohnR said:

 

Also, these coaches are £30. I'd say even if you bought it and threw in the bin the bits you didnt need, you'd still be doing well.

 

As a reader of magazines and this website who goes into apoplexy when some smartharse genius relates at length how he built or modified something unusual "using an old Gresley-pattern sprocket wangler from my Spares Box", but he/she can't be bothered to spend a just little time checking-into how and where the rest of us without the benefit of such an extensive resource might be able to source such an obscure item right now ... can i suggest that the 'bin' is the very last place any 'bits' of this nature should be thrown!

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Full brake is an interesting proposition, as it opens up possibilities of post grouping special purpose vehicles too, like pigeon vans, horse van, milk churn van, bicycle vans, fire fighting van, weedkilling vehicles and other such oddities, like a support vehicle for Oxfords rail gun.

 

additionally, as Hattons Dave indicated they are modular, perhaps thought could be given to different roof styles too, i.e vents vs gaslit vs clerestory so different variations of the same liveries could be produced.

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45 minutes ago, BackRoomBoffin said:

 

Stand by for  infinite 'how I adapted my Genesis coaches to have a more prototypical roof profile / duckets / windows / brakegear / whatever it is for X railway' articles over every magazine for 5 years to come.

 

 

Oh it all makes work for the working man to do!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyeMFSzPgGc

 

 

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4 hours ago, AY Mod said:

I've ordered my Maryport & Carlisle coaches for a side-project. :biggrin_mini2:

 

I think you may be on to something there. I have no idea what any M&C carriages looked like - I don't think i've ever seen a photo of one. So you would probably be safe from criticism!

 

4 hours ago, melmerby said:

A quick question for those in the know.

When or why was a 6 wheel chassis provided for a vehicle rather than a 4?

I've just been trawling through my Russell's GWR coach volumes and see that several 4 wheelers had longer wheelbases and bodies than some six wheelers.

 

2 hours ago, Northroader said:

On the matter of 6wheel/ 4wheel coaches, quite a lot of 1880s era coaches started life as 6 wheelers, but got converted at a later date to 4 wheelers, simplification of:maintenance probably the main reason. You can usually pick them out by a strengthening truss placed amidships. Back on the starter to this thread, the second vehicle in the header photo is one, and there’s one in the LMS set shown.

 

I think weight may enter into the equation - the Midland built quite a few 28 ft and 29 ft 4-wheelers in the 1870s that were given an extra axle in the 1880s. Possibly as bearing technology improved, companies were happier putting more weight on each axle so by the 90s, the middle axle could be dispensed with. I believe it's the case that a long-whhelbase 4-wheeler rode more easily than a 6-wheeler.

 

3 hours ago, Nile said:

Bachmann have their own range of 'generic' coaches for that, they should be available here next year. However I expect Hattons ones will look better.

 

But the Bachmann Annie and Claribel are actually quite passable LBSCR carriages of Stroudley vintage - so ideal for all these little IEG tank engines that are so popular.

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7 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Sorry I don't think that is the case, those who really want finescale pre-grouping carriages for their chosen era/company will continue to do what they have always done quite expertly, these coaches allow a larger proportion of the hobby to access coaches similar to the period without having to resort to building kits, painting and lining which may be beyond their skill (me, for example).

I am struggling to see how that is at odds with what I said. The question is, how actually similar are they to any particular pre-group railway's coaches?

 

Clearly, the euphoria expressed here about these new models clearly shows that Hatton's have identified and reacted to a market opportunity. They appear to have gauged the acceptability of generic models that can be readily identified as belonging to a railway company based solely upon the livery, with little need to get dimensional and other differences especially accurate. 

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