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'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement


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1 hour ago, Denbridge said:

What next? Generic locos in your choice of livery?

Harks back to the days of Hornby Tinplate .

 

As I said above, I may be an oddball but I think we need to not lump 'generic'/'freelance' in with 'out of scale'/'toytrain'. Just because the two concepts have historically been combined, does not mean that they can't be detached from one another.

Of course, there are plenty of situations where there would be no point in doing so (why, for eg design a 'generic' small-wheeled light-railway 0-6-0T, when there are 2-3 well-known prototypes that worked across a number of railways / post-group companies, eg J72, Terrier, P, the GER types, and maybe in future a Brighton 'E' or an LNWR 0-6-0ST).

But most people who model pre-group, and might not be in a position to create their own beautiful kit-built locos (...yet!), are looking for stuff in the period 1900-1923, I'd reckon - or it's Grouping and BR-era modellers looking for some pre-group variety to represent minor lines or superseded types.

...and then there's the drive for small types with small wheelbases, led by the interest in microlayouts and, to be frank, changing demography and the housing crisis. The Hornby 'County' 4-4-0 was very attractive in regards to it's short wheelbase, but there's a very limited number of plausible scenarios you can use it in.

When it comes to small tender locomotives specifically, stock of those types during that period was being reduced down so that there were multiple small non-standard classes. Creating a plausible, adaptable, wide-market rtr option for that (ignoring 'glamour' or 'quirky' types eg Caledonian 123) is unlikely to be viable. (Although to be fair the preponderance of ex-LNWR 0-6-0s on WD and ROD railways might offer another route).

So I do think there might plausibly be an opening there. I really do. If done well.
 

Edited by BackRoomBoffin
added comment about the increasing demand for small, short wheelbase locos.
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1 hour ago, Denbridge said:

What next? Generic locos in your choice of livery?

Harks back to the days of Hornby Tinplate .

As has been expressed numerous times already, if you focus your effort onto an accurate model of one company's coaches, you may well damage sales for all the 'inaccurate' coach liveries.

So no, we are not headed backwards here.

 

Another thing, Hattons are clearly opening up a 'new' market here!

It's been pointed out previously that practically all the British diesels have been done to one state or another, pretty much all the big, named and green steam locos have been done too.

Mr S. K. of Hornby once speculated that a new direction for the British market could be TT scale, with this, I suspect Pre-group could be the way forward instead.

Cheers,

John

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2 minutes ago, Allegheny1600 said:

As has been expressed numerous times already, if you focus your effort onto an accurate model of one company's coaches, you may well damage sales for all the 'inaccurate' coach liveries.

So no, we are not headed backwards here.

 

 

 So instead do nothing accurate?

 

I can see how that is a step forward.

 

Craig W

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17 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

I don't know, some of the griping on here you'd think people were being forced to buy these at gunpoint, against their will.

:maninlove:          :triniti:

 

We we will be round to check you have a Smokey Joe & two Hattons 4 wheelers in an hour!

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Well, if it had looked anything like this:

 

image.png.f4af2b7b341222adc3426fe4e97efa99.png

 

... I think that would have been my reaction too but perhaps not quite in the sense you meant, @Miss Prism!

 

NB. Before anyone starts picking the nits off me, I know that's not a first but a centre-kitchen composite to WCJS Diagram 10; it was the first postable picture of a Wolverton diner I could lay my hands on.

 

And what an absoloute beauty you picked

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Just now, Craigw said:

 So instead do nothing accurate?

 

I can see how that is a step forward.

 

Craig W

But it’s not a step back really as retro is in, with all this tv exposure toy trains are officially trendy! 

 

On a slightly more serious note though there are good reasons for this and even with generic they are altering aspects to make it more typical. Hattons have made a commercial decision as whatever prototype they choose it will get lambasted for being WRONG in other liveries so they’ve set out to admit that from the start and try something different. Others are worried Hattons would damage the other manufacturers, so will one of them jump in with an accurate set of period coaches to compete? Model Rail has already said the W&U coaches weren’t viable at a price people would pay. A generic model designed to be cheap to print liveries on with less additional detail to hand fit has probably knocked £10-20 off an accurate model and makes catering to the NRM editions and the similar mainstream models viable. 

The market will decide ;) 

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1 minute ago, Craigw said:

 So instead do nothing accurate?

 

I can see how that is a step forward.

 

Craig W

 

Forward to the Past!

 

Alas after a good start with a Warwell, SECR P class, Barclay, Beilhack snow plough and FEA; however it is now going forward to an up market Thomas range!

 

Mark Saunders

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20 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

I don't know, some of the griping on here you'd think people were being forced to buy these at gunpoint, against their will.

I don't understand it myself. There's no one stopping them from kit building, bashing, scratch building etc their chosen coaches, as has been the case up until now. Nothing has changed for modellers in that position. It's not like they're being deprived of anything. It's just that for modellers who don't mind the compromise, there is something whereas before, there was nothing.

 

Ultimately, whether people like it or not, sales will be the deciding factor as to whether this range is a success. If it fails, then I'll put my hands up and admit that I was wrong and it's a bad idea, but I don't think it will.

 

11 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Or they've been gazumped on one of their 'big announcements' for 2020:jester:

No problem, it would just mean a wider variety of stock available. Hey Hornby, any chance of a rake in District Railway livery?

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3 minutes ago, LNWR lives on said:

 

And what an absoloute beauty you picked

 

Well yes, my gripe about these Genesis carriages is that what Hattons should really be doing is a full set of carriages for the 2pm corridor and Jeanie Deans as well...

 

image.png.4bd50c7bc1b7695b873f4086096a1236.png

 

And to pick off the pick-knitters, I know there's not a WCJS D10 diner in the original 1892 train.

 

I do have some serious (and positive) comments on the revised Genisis drawings, working on my response, but it involves scanning some sketches and my scanner is temperamental.

 

Edited by Compound2632
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1 minute ago, Mark Saunders said:

 

Forward to the Past!

 

Alas after a good start with a Warwell, SECR P class, Barclay, Beilhack snow plough and FEA; however it is now going forward to an up market Thomas range!

 

Mark Saunders

It’s just one set of coaches it doesn’t mean they’ve abandoned the normal ranges ;) 

Think of it as their Railroad range :) 

Edited by PaulRhB
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22 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

I don't know, some of the griping on here you'd think people were being forced to buy these at gunpoint, against their will.

I did think of buying one if I haven't gone down the Ratio route before they appear.

If I do it will end up as one of the Departmentals residing at Aston, Bushbury or other West Midland locations up to about 1960.

The livery will be unlined crud.

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1 minute ago, PaulRhB said:

It’s just one set of coaches it doesn’t mean they’ve abandoned the normal ranges ;) 

Think of it as their Railroad range :) 

 

No as a Railroad range is a one that should have been retired but is perpetuated as an entry level!

 

This is one that should be a non starter!

 

Mark Saunders

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Just now, PaulRhB said:

It’s just one set of coaches it doesn’t mean they’ve abandoned the normal ranges ;) 

Think of it as their Railroad range :) 

 

I'm still finding the reaction here rather odd. Put out a Genesis BR carriage because they all look the same and they'd be torn to pieces

 

Put out a Genesis 'Pre-Grouping' carriage - yes that's OK. They all look the same apart from the colours. Those 'pre-grouping' guys* will be happy to have anything

 

And on this forum Tri-ang Clerestory carriages get short shrift, the Hornby S&D carriage is unacceptable and there is a thread running on what is exactly the right chassis to put under an RTR H&BR refrigerated van!

 

We are a funny lot, railway modellers. Good luck with this Hattons, it looks like they will sell well. As a L&NWR enthusiast I'd only buy them to cut about

 

Richard

 

*Whatever they are

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2 minutes ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

If I do it will end up as one of the Departmentals residing at Aston, Bushbury or other West Midland locations up to about 1960.

The livery will be unlined crud.

 

Ooo... Now a number of those departmentals are rather interesting, especially the ones with matchboarding over the upper panels.

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwra3627.htm

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwra3628.htm

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwra3629.htm

 

The last one is not quite correctly identified. PM me if you would like to know more!

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11 minutes ago, LU Standard Stock said:

The feeling I have got from reading the many comments from about 3 or 4 people on this thread is that there is no room in this hobby for people who don't want to be uber rivet counter level of accurate? Seems a little elitist doesn't it? I would have thought for any hobby to survive it needs to cater for as many tastes as possible, but maybe that's just me? :)

 

So an "uber rivet counter" is someone who would like a model based on an actual prototype.

 

I am glad that is cleared up for me.

 

Craig W

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7 minutes ago, RLWP said:

 

I'm still finding the reaction here rather odd. Put out a Genesis BR carriage because they all look the same and they'd be torn to pieces

 

Put out a Genesis 'Pre-Grouping' carriage - yes that's OK. They all look the same apart from the colours. Those 'pre-grouping' guys* will be happy to have anything

 

And on this forum Tri-ang Clerestory carriages get short shrift, the Hornby S&D carriage is unacceptable and there is a thread running on what is exactly the right chassis to put under an RTR H&BR refrigerated van!

 

We are a funny lot, railway modellers. Good luck with this Hattons, it looks like they will sell well. As a L&NWR enthusiast I'd only buy them to cut about

 

Richard

 

*Whatever they are

 

The BR market is well-supplied and considerably larger than for any individual pre-Grouping company. For pre-Grouping modellers, there is virtually nothing by way of RTR coaching stock, and for many companies there's nothing at all. I like steak, but if I'm starving I'll settle for mince.

Edited by HonestTom
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22 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Or they've been gazumped on one of their 'big announcements' for 2020

 

Bachmann is having a snit with Hattons already, I hope that they're not going to alienate the other major player too!  OTOH, perhaps there's an embargoed Hornby announcement thats been privately shown to the retailers and this is a complementary offering to capitalise on the usual "loco but no stock" situation.

 

I can imagine Hornby having a rest from small industrials for a season and are going to temp us with a pre-grouping express locomotive that one of the livery variants would go with...

 

 

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2 minutes ago, HonestTom said:

 

The BR market is well-supplied and considerably larger than for any individual pre-Grouping company. For pre-Grouping modellers, there is virtually nothing by way of RTR coaching stock, and for many companies there's nothing at all. I like steak, but if I'm starving I'll settle for mince.

 

Then you are in luck! I have several Triang clerestories I can sell you

 

Richard

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11 minutes ago, RLWP said:

 

I'm still finding the reaction here rather odd. Put out a Genesis BR carriage because they all look the same and they'd be torn to pieces

 

Put out a Genesis 'Pre-Grouping' carriage - yes that's OK. They all look the same apart from the colours. Those 'pre-grouping' guys* will be happy to have anything

 

 

I'm afraid that was my reaction too.

 

In my experience, pre-Grouping modellers are usually 'uber-anal' about correct detail - see the endless debate / argument over the two versions of the 'Terrier'.

 

Yet these 'never-wazzers' seem to be being welcomed with open arms - does accuracy end at the face of the loco's rear buffers?

 

.... or is there a new breed of pre-Grouping modellers, who like the pretty liveries of the locos and couldn't care less what they are pulling - so long as the stock liveries are also pretty?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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1 minute ago, cctransuk said:

 

I'm afraid that was my reaction too.

 

In my experience, pre-Grouping modellers are usually 'uber-anal' about correct detail - see the endless debate / argument over the two versions of the 'Terrier'.

 

Yet these 'never-wazzers' seem to be being welcomed with open arms - does accuracy end at the face of the loco's rear buffers?

 

.... or is there a new breed of pre-Grouping modellers, who like the pretty liveries of the locos and couldn't care less what they are pulling - so long as the stock liveries are also pretty?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

That is the thing with us pre-grouping modellers. We are either uber anal or we just don't care. there is nothing in between!

 

Plus we only do it because the trains are pretty colours.

 

Sorry chaps, we have been rumbled!

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