Wickham Green Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: ...... You can also see it in the NRM. Of course it would sell. ....... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Gareth Collier said: I can already hear those cottage industries thinking "what can I produce that 'modellers' will find useful to add to and enhance these RTR coaches. As dimensions have already been provided I bet etched overlays are being designed as we speak. Not this cottage industry; (Cambridge Custom Transfers)! I sincerely doubt that many (any?) of the small suppliers that I know of will be the least interested in offering products to 'enhance' these generic models - not least because it will be impossible to produce an accurate item that will fit a donor that never existed. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted October 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, cctransuk said: Not this cottage industry; (Cambridge Custom Transfers)! I sincerely doubt that many (any?) of the small suppliers that I know of will be the least interested in offering products to 'enhance' these generic models - not least because it will be impossible to produce an accurate item that will fit a donor that never existed. Regards, John Isherwood. Just because the donors never existed in prototype form, it doesn't follow that the models won't be the right size to accommodate etched sides to represent some that did. John Edited October 10, 2019 by Dunsignalling 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, cctransuk said: not least because it will be impossible to produce an accurate item that will fit a donor that never existed. Regards, John Isherwood. 2 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said: Just because the donors never existed, it doesn't mean that the models won't be the right size to accommodate etched sides of some that did. John So, I want these carriages to be a scale 30' 1" long Richard 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted October 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2019 46 minutes ago, sem34090 said: Burnt umber would be better. Emphasis on burnt. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted October 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, RLWP said: So, I want these carriages to be a scale 30' 1" long Richard Could you make one two reliably to +/- one scale inch? By eye, not some fancy CAD job. More to the point, if one of 30' and one of 30' 1" was standing on a layout, could you tell them apart? John Edited October 10, 2019 by Dunsignalling 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Collier Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, cctransuk said: Not this cottage industry; (Cambridge Custom Transfers)! I sincerely doubt that many (any?) of the small suppliers that I know of will be the least interested in offering products to 'enhance' these generic models - not least because it will be impossible to produce an accurate item that will fit a donor that never existed. Regards, John Isherwood. Worried to hear you believe all the cottage industries are of the same mindset as you, that makes me fear for the future of the hobby far more than Hattons daring to introduce a generic coach. You aren't their target market and I seriously can't see the introduction of these coaches spelling the end of model making! If people want an accurate model rather than a generic one I am sure they will continue as they always have. Why just because a manufacturer introduces something that doesn't fit their particular niche do people feel the need to complain? People take things far too seriously. 4 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 3 hours ago, RLWP said: To me, six wheeled pretend carriages are not fun, they aren't for me or I suspect for most modellers of pre-grouping companies. I/they are really, really interested in detail differences between items Richard Except that the overwhelming reaction to these has been positive. Thus people are prepared to compromise over detail differences as nothing has been made for that sector specifically and they are prepared to accept this as a means to have something generic at first which might lead to something specific later. So most people are happy with this development, whereas before they would have got nothing and had much less hope of anything else coming. If you think pretend carriages are not fun, then you won't like the fictitious engines I have as part of my fleet and they get an overwhelmingly positive reaction too! 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 58 minutes ago, richarddavies said: Hi Disclaimer: I'm MD of Hatton's I am really enjoying this thread. I think the reaction has been incredibly positive. I had expected it to cause a bit of shock - we realise this project is not to everyone's usual taste Some absolutely brilliant feedback on the designs arriving - very proud of the way our team are responding to it too We are huge fans of the "Prototypically literate" term coined by (I think) @Edwardian Looking forward to talking about this with some of you at GETS this weekend - I will be on the stand Saturday & Sunday Thanks to everyone for all their views. I think it's been received rather well Richard Testing the water with the announcement yesterday, at least you know to expect a welcome and not pitchforks at GETS now. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted October 10, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, RLWP said: So, I want these carriages to be a scale 30' 1" long Richard 1 minute ago, Dunsignalling said: Could you make one reliably to +/- one scale inch? By eye, not some fancy CAD job. John If you made it 120 mm long the thickness of the etches used on the end would account for the extra scale inch. (you need them to be 7 thou thick.) 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said: Could you make one two reliably to +/- one scale inch? By eye, not some fancy CAD job. More to the point if one of 30' and one of 30' 1" was standing on a layout, could you tell them apart? John Oh yes. a 30' carriage looks quite different to a 30' 1" Completely different class and era Richard 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, The Black Hat said: If you think pretend carriages are not fun, then you won't like the fictitious engines I have as part of my fleet and they get an overwhelmingly positive reaction too! Somewhere along the line you missed that I'm also an 009 modeller Richard 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted October 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, RLWP said: Somewhere along the line you missed that I'm also an 009 modeller Richard So everything you own will be imaginary in at least one respect unless you exclusively model the Talyllyn. Edited October 10, 2019 by Dunsignalling 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Just now, Dunsignalling said: So everything you own will be imaginary in at least one respect unless you model the Talyllyn. Would you like to see my Campbeltown and Machrihanish brake van? Richard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) Annie looks OK, but Claribel looks a bit rough!! Sorry, had to!! Al. Edited October 10, 2019 by atom3624 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, Gareth Collier said: Worried to hear you believe all the cottage industries are of the same mindset as you, that makes me fear for the future of the hobby far more than Hattons daring to introduce a generic coach. You aren't their target market and I seriously can't see the introduction of these coaches spelling the end of model making! If people want an accurate model rather than a generic one I am sure they will continue as they always have. Why just because a manufacturer introduces something that doesn't fit their particular niche do people feel the need to complain? People take things far too seriously. The overwhelming majority of 'cottage industries' (all?) produce items that allow modellers who care about such things to produce more accurate models than the RTR offerings. Why on earth would they have the slightest interest in producing items that would, at best, allow modellers to produce marginally less accurate, but still mostly imaginary models. I think that you will find the answer is 'No thanks'. Regards, John Isherwood. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted October 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, RLWP said: Would you like to see my Campbeltown and Machrihanish brake van? Richard Dammit. I'd forgotten the C&M. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Denbridge said: There is a very advanced replica being built at Tyseley. Last I heard work had resumed with a view towards completion in the next couple of years. Or you could go to Milton Keynes... Jason Edited October 10, 2019 by Steamport Southport 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aire Head Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, cctransuk said: If they did, they were doing me a grave injustice. Lack of funds meant that I had no alternative but to produce dire, but ever improving, scratch and kit-built models. It's the only way if you want to become a skilled modeller - there's no escape from that fact. .... if, on the other hand, you just want to drive trains - so be it. Regards, John Isherwood. My point isn't about becoming a skilled modeller. It's about sweeping statements made by one generation about another. If people just want to run trains and your content for people to do it why feel the need to make belittling comments? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted October 10, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2019 21 minutes ago, RLWP said: So, I want these carriages to be a scale 30' 1" long So you'll be wanting LNWR style panelling too... 18 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said: More to the point, if one of 30' and one of 30' 1" was standing on a layout, could you tell them apart? Yes, because the 30'1" carriage would have LNWR style panelling whilst the 30'0" carriage would have the panelling style of some other company! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Collier Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Just now, cctransuk said: The overwhelming majority of 'cottage industries' (all?) produce items that allow modellers who care about such things to produce more accurate models than the RTR offerings. Why on earth would they have the slightest interest in producing items that would, at best, allow modellers to produce marginally less accurate, but still mostly imaginary models. I think that you will find the answer is 'No thanks'. Regards, John Isherwood. OK, so in your opinion no cottage industry will be interested, fine, but a RTR generic coach from Hattons is not going to wipe out model makers overnight. Like I said, different target markets which will have zero impact on you. It's more likely someone will use them as an introduction to pre grouping that then may inspire them to move on to building something more accurate rather than give up modelling. The glass can be half full sometimes. 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted October 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: So you'll be wanting LNWR style panelling too... Yes, because the 30'1" carriage would have LNWR style panelling whilst the 30'0" carriage would have the panelling style of some other company! Which rather begs the question as to whether the prototypes were built to that level of consistency..... Or was the odd inch more in the nature of a manufacturing tolerance? John Edited October 10, 2019 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: So you'll be wanting LNWR style panelling too... Yes, because the 30'1" carriage would have LNWR style panelling whilst the 30'0" carriage would have the panelling style of some other company! The LNWR built both 30' and 30' 1" carriages - they are different (there's a reason and I can't remember what it is) And no, I'm not bothered about the panelling. A 30' 1" chassis could take all sorts of etched bodies or carriage sides on a flatted down carcase Richard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said: Which rather begs the question as to whether the prototypes were built to that level of consistency..... You are assuming the measurement only refers to the length. These are different carriages If it helps, I can't identify different classes of GWR pannier, they all look the same to me Richard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Gareth Collier said: ... but a RTR generic coach from Hattons is not going to wipe out model makers overnight. I agree entirely. Nonetheless, these RTR coaches will be the first intentionally generic ones, in 4mm. scale at least, for more years than I care to recall. That there is perceived to be a market for them - apparently justified by the content of this thread - does tell me something about the current trend in the model railway market. I, for one, do not feel that it is an positive one in the long term. Regards, John Isherwood. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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