'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[PatB]

I'm not sure that the "You wouldn't accept this approach for a BR Mk1" argument stacks up. Considering how many RMWebbers bought a measurable percentage of the production run of Hachette's not-as-good-as-Bachby offering, clearly many are prepared to accept significant compromise. Certainly when the opportunity arises to bulk out ones stock or feed one's kitbashing habit in an affordable manner. 

[chris45lsw]

This is a bit off the wall but interest in Irish railways seems to be on the up.   And CIE in Ireland was using 6-wheelers in revenue service well into the 1950s.  But I don't suppose there's much chance of them being offered n CIE's two-tone green! 

 

Chris KT

[bingley hall]

25 pages of Comedy Gold Jerry  

 

If you don't like 'em, don't buy 'em. Simples.

[WD0-6-0]

Finding this debate fascinating though through having to go to work I've not been able to keep up with every page. I have to say whether you post to applaud or berate the model Hattons must be loving it because no publicity is bad publicity.

Personally I'll be ordering two sets, one NCB set to compliment my ratio Midland boogie coaches on a forthcoming colliery layout and a GNR set to follow my Single around another layout. I know they're wrong, I know the roof profile will be the most obvious jar for me compared to real GN stock but im not going to build anything better in the next few years and these will look great from a distance

 

Thanks

Rhys

 

Just spotted the "boogie coach" I'm gonna leave it in because it amused me

Edited October 11, 2019 by WD0-6-0

[Bernard Lamb]

10 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 

 

What is it about freelancing that so upsets some people?

 

I ask that as a genuine question, because, judging from this thread, freelancing, as in making stuff up, really does disturb some people very deeply, and I really don't understand why.

 

 

 

 

Dunno.

There is a funny old place in Long Wittenham where they run heavy trains over a timber viaduct and where they also have a larger model on which all the buildings are in the wrong locations. However they do not seem to bring down the fire and brimstone on there heads that other models seem to attract. There would seem to be various levels of intolerance and reasoning behind what is acceptable and what is not is beyond me.

As for these coaches then a brown LNER version brake third might just have survived into BR days to run with my J70.

Bernard

[PJT]

1 hour ago, WD0-6-0 said:

my ratio Midland boogie coaches

 

Now, the burning question is, do they have one glitterball per seating bay or just one per carriage if there's no partitioning?

 

Glad you left it.  Amused me too.  I nearly choked on my coffee reading it.

 

Pete T.

 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, WD0-6-0 said:

 

Just spotted the "boogie coach" I'm gonna leave it in because it amused me

Presumably to compete with the GER "Jazz" service

[AY Mod]

There has been a level of personal unpleasantness within the topic at some points, if there's any re-occurrence access to the topic will be removed for those concerned.

[cctransuk]

8 hours ago, PatB said:

... many RMWebbers bought a measurable percentage of the production run of Hachette's not-as-good-as-Bachby offering....

 

The Hachette Mk.1 was a model of an actual coach, which was not dimensionally compromised.

 

The compromise was in the level of detail, which could easily be improved; it will not be easy at all to turn a model of a non-existent coach into one of an actual prototype.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[PhilJ W]

One big advantage of a generic model is that the manufacturer can add features without worrying about nit-picking and rivet counting. My suggestion for the 4 wheel chassis with a GUV body in the same style as the rest of the range. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by PhilJ W
spill chucker

[JimC]

I think much in this thread demonstrates precisely why it was more sensible of Hattons to produce a generic coach rather than to attempt specific prototypes and deliver them in liveries of different companies they would never have carried.

[HonestTom]

8 hours ago, chris45lsw said:

This is a bit off the wall but interest in Irish railways seems to be on the up.   And CIE in Ireland was using 6-wheelers in revenue service well into the 1950s.  But I don't suppose there's much chance of them being offered n CIE's two-tone green! 

 

Chris KT

 

Put it to Hattons? I don't know how big the market is, but OO Works have done Irish steam locomotives, so I'm sure there'd be takers.

[Edwardian]

6 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

One big advantage of a generic model is that the manufacturer can add features without worrying about nit-picking and rivet counting. My suggestion four the 4 wheel chassis with a GUV body in the same style as the rest of the range. 

 

Indeed.  It is possible to produce an accurate freelance model!  Let's get our heads around this; it seems to me that Hattons are a very long way down the road to designing  a realistic model of a typical/prototypical late Nineteenth Century coach. As such, I would rate this as a successful model from a critical standpoint.  I am pleased for Hattons that it looks like being a successful release in terms of sales.

 

This is, of course, distinct from a model that is intended to represent a given prototype but which might do so indifferently in some respects, or, indeed, a prototype or freelance subject where the design is prototype-illiterate, in that the model does not represent how a/the prototype looked/was constructed. 

 

By way of illustration, a good example of what-not-to-do is the old pseudo-Hull & Barnsley wagon body.  Hopefully this is such an ancient OOP example that no one will take too much umbrage. The basic construction of the van with external angle plates on internal diagonal bracing had been fundamentally misunderstood by the designer.  It would not matter whether this was intended as a generic van or to represent the H&B one, either way it's 'wrong' because no real prototype van would ever be constructed in quite the way the model's designer has represented it. 

 

Of course, a freelance design gets more critical leeway, as it does not need to match any one prototype exactly, but it is still important that it is prototypical.  I like what Hattons is showing us because they have clearly got this, even to the extent of inviting and embracing feedback that might help the designs be both more typical and prototypical. That's refreshing and positive and helps both manufacturer and customer. 

 

it's clear that not everyone thinks this is a good direction in which to head - though I think this topic suggests that a majority do - and if it's not your cup of tea I say 'fair enough', but I do not see why individual members should be attacked over a difference in philosophy.  This is a positive development in the eyes of many.  Let's keep the topic positive.

 

 

[GreenGiraffe22]

There an image on the internet somewhere of a Terrier looking really powerful with around 10 4 wheelers behind it, I cannot for the life of me remember where I found it but I'm sure the location in the photo was between Brighton and Portsmouth. I did find this nice photo while searching for it though. 

 

 

Edit: Found someone selling a copy of the image I was thinkjing about on ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAILWAY-LBSC-MORRIS-PHOTOCARD-1914-BARNHAM-BOGNOR-BALLOON-TRAILER-TRAIN-/272416295382

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by GreenGiraffe22

[Tramshed]

On 08/10/2019 at 12:40, Neal Ball said:

This is a great range from Hattons as everyone needs the odd 4 wheeler lurking around their layout.

 

Sadly, I doubt that it will do anything for their spat with Bachmann. In some respects that is good as it means Hattons are not going to roll over, but I hope they resolve their differences ASAP.

Looking on the positive side (some on here do, others less so), perhaps this might even help to heal relations.....

 

Examination of Hattons 'formations guide' we see the following Bachmann items:-

 

GNR C1 Atlantic in the 'Cambridge express'

LNWR Coal Tank in the 'North Western Local Passenger'

LMS 1P in the 'Midland Local'

Ransomes 45T crane in the 'BR crane'

 

In the latter two cases these products have yet to hit the shelves but, with a following wind, should do so by 2021 when the 6 and 4 wheel stock is due.

Free publicity for Bachy then and an excuse to make up previously impossible trains with their products. Own goal or olive branch? I hope the latter.

[PhilJ W]

8 hours ago, chris45lsw said:

This is a bit off the wall but interest in Irish railways seems to be on the up.   And CIE in Ireland was using 6-wheelers in revenue service well into the 1950s.  But I don't suppose there's much chance of them being offered n CIE's two-tone green! 

 

Chris KT

And they could be seen hauled by diesel locomotives. As for Edwardians comments above, you have to look no further than Hornby's 3 compartment abomination. 

[Edwardian]

1 minute ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

There an image on the internet somewhere of a Terrier looking really powerful with around 10 4 wheelers behind it, I cannot for the life of me remember where I found it but I'm sure the location in the photo was between Brighton and Portsmouth. I did find this nice photo while searching for it though. 

 

Whereas most of us will be content with a nice branch train, like the one you picture, the Terriers and the Stroudley coaches were introduced to do intensive inner suburban work and the Stroudly 4-wheelers were typically formed into 10 coach sets, though numbers did vary.  

[Ryde-on-time]

56 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

One big advantage of a generic model is that the manufacturer can add features without worrying about nit-picking and rivet counting. My suggestion for the 4 wheel chassis with a GUV body in the same style as the rest of the range. 

I wouldn't be so sure about that

 

When Dapol introduced its O gauge 6 wheel milk tanker it was similarly generic. That didn't stop some on this forum from getting very worked up about the position of rivets, small details and other aspects of the model

[Oldddudders]

8 minutes ago, Ryde-on-time said:

When Dapol introduced its O gauge 6 wheel milk tanker it was similarly generic. That didn't stop some on this forum from getting very worked up about the position of rivets, small details and other aspects of the model

The arguments were broadly comparable. Offering a model that was neither fish nor fowl, in a scale where RTR availability is distinctly limited, was seen as a crime against modelling civilisation. I have no idea how well they sold.

[NHY 581]

Just announced. 

 

Hattons are to produce Hair shirts in a variety of liveries for those modellers who cannot bring themselves to purchase prototypically inaccurate stock regardless of how attractive and useful it might be. 

 

Rob. 

[RLWP]

1 minute ago, NHY 581 said:

Just announced. 

 

Hattons are to produce Hair shirts in a variety of liveries for those modellers who cannot bring themselves to purchase prototypically inaccurate stock regardless of how attractive and useful it might be. 

 

Rob. 

 

I notice the early versions are in BR maroon, GWR mid Brunswick and NSE

[Oldddudders]

1 minute ago, NHY 581 said:

Just announced. 

 

Hattons are to produce Hair shirts in a variety of liveries for those modellers who cannot bring themselves to purchase prototypically inaccurate stock regardless of how attractive and useful it might be. 

 

Rob. 

Oh you are having a good day, Rob! I saw your RMwebGold remarks about Warley!

[Mark Saunders]

3 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

Just announced. 

 

Hattons are to produce Hair shirts in a variety of liveries for those modellers who cannot bring themselves to purchase prototypically inaccurate stock regardless of how attractive and useful it might be. 

 

Rob. 

 

Sorry to differ it is not about the purchase of such models it is about having the ability to start with a clean slate and produce a really good accurate model, after that who cares what colour you want it painted in!

 

Mark Saunders

[burgundy]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

Whereas most of us will be content with a nice branch train, like the one you picture, the Terriers and the Stroudley coaches were introduced to do intensive inner suburban work and the Stroudly 4-wheelers were typically formed into 10 coach sets, though numbers did vary.  

Sorry. This one is only an 8 coach set. 

 

Best wishes 

Eric 

[black05]

Why are all the posters on this missing the obvious, all r-t-r stock is just over 4ft gauge, not 4ft 8 1/2in. If people are prepared to accept that compromise then leave them to it. If people want to build an accurate brass kit of an LNWR coach to go with their re-gauged Bachmann Coal Tank then that is their choice. Running the same engine out of the box with a rake of generic 4 & 6 wheelers is not a crime.

The hobby is being promoted at the moment by a national channel TV series on which I am sure I saw a Coal Tank on Mars and a Sentinel diesel shunter on a Swiss mountain railway.

There is room for excellent scale modelling for people who have the skills, time and patience, and for people to build a layout and run what they want on it straight out of the box. Hornby O gauge used to make an 0-4-0 tank in every big 4 livery, and a detailed Princess Elizabeth. There is enough intolerence in this country now without taking it into the model railway community.