RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: Chariots are out of court And, if equipped with the optional scythes, out of gauge, too. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted October 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, Oldddudders said: And, if equipped with the optional scythes, out of gauge, too. ... perhaps we need to move to the "Driving standards" thread? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 On 08/10/2019 at 22:04, Nearholmer said: The SR did a better job: they took the centre axles off, and used them as LWB four-wheeler PP sets. I don’t know about other SR constituents, but the Brighton finished off its 6-wheeler fleet by putting pairs of bodies onto bogie underframes, to make three car sets, brake third-composite-brake third, which ran well into SR days Do you happen to know when they were converted from PP sets to beach huts and bonfires? @Graham_Muz suggested that they didn't last well into the 30s on the mainland (Hattons' only SR example is for IoW in the 30s), and SEMGonline doesn't show them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Oldddudders said: And, if equipped with the optional scythes, out of gauge, too. But if you narrowed the gauge by 2.33mm there would be room to fit the blades. Bernard 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 3 hours ago, Oldddudders said: And, if equipped with the optional scythes, out of gauge, too. Perhaps that's why they didn't have lineside forests in those days !!?! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Popular Post Hattons Dave Posted October 16, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Popular Post Share Posted October 16, 2019 Afternoon all, As Richard said yesterday, I have been making notes and looking into suggestions that have been made since we last updated the drawings. With some of the changes taking a while to copy over the multiple types, I have just updated the 6 wheel Brake Third in order to show the changes, once we have some feedback I will then roll it out over the other body types. Changes/additions include: Increased depth to the top and waist panels Droplights added Bolections on quarter lights added Sides and roof now fit over the ends Guards door added in addition to the luggage doors Gas and Electric lights have also been added in more detail with the gas pipe, tank and electrical boxes shown where appropriate I've also got a dimensioned view of the brake third to give you a good idea of the major dimensions of the coach. I hope this helps. Cheers, Dave 32 1 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted October 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2019 Very good move to have the brake third with the three compartments aligned with exactly half a coach, Dave, it will allow coach bashers to produce six compartment thirds quite easily. The GER, LSWR, and Irish GS&WR come to mind. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackRoomBoffin Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 7 hours ago, Wickham Green said: That's VERY pre-grouping ! .................................. anyone know anything about panelling styles on chariots ? Judging by this, round-top panelling not unremeniscent of Metropolitan stock, or early Midland pullmans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_horse_in_Britain#/media/File:Anglo-Saxon_Chariot_10th_century.jpg 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackRoomBoffin Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Oh, and Dave is effectively now working as CME / Chief Draughtsman to a railway of roughly the period 1880 to 1900 that that never existed. (Hattonshire Union Railway?) 3 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted October 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, BackRoomBoffin said: Judging by this, round-top panelling not unremeniscent of Metropolitan stock, or early Midland pullmans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_horse_in_Britain#/media/File:Anglo-Saxon_Chariot_10th_century.jpg Avoid scaling from a drawing; always rely on marked dimensions. Are those Mansell wheels? 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted October 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2019 They are Mansell wheels, Stephen, and as I previously remarked, they should be a standard fitting, forget about options on the wheels. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted October 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Miss Prism said: Having read it a few times, my reaction to Compound's 'long post': - The lav windows would be frosted, but there would not be droplights. - I feel the windows in the luggage doors on the centre luggage compo would probably have droplights (as per the Brake 3rd). Admittedly, this is on the cusp of overlapping eras, but droplights on luggage doors can be seen on an LA9-style U20 as early as 1885, as per melmerby's post. (Question: when did bars/grilles started to be fitted to luggage/brake doors?) - I suggest duckets should be non-mirrored (unless the ducket is on the vehicle centreline, in which case the guard's doors should not be mirrored). Not a criticism at all but just a comment that these preferences show @Miss Prism's Great Western interests - absolutely nothing wrong with that. My position in favour of droplights for lavatory windows and blank luggage doors (except where also a guard's compartment) reflects Midland (and North Eastern) practice. The Midland didn't do duckets at this period, except on the 25' 4-wheeled full brakes. Just goes to show how hard it is to be "typical". Edited October 16, 2019 by Compound2632 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitchin Junction Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 The soon to be published "Hattons Illustrated Guide to Pre-grouping 4/6 Wheel Coach Detail Variations" is going to be a huge commercial success. Tim 2 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted October 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) You ain't seen nuffin' yet... Guide to panelling dimensions is out to review. Edited October 16, 2019 by Compound2632 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronny Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Excellent work Hattons Dave. Very much appreciated. Thanks. Shame we have to wait so long to see them in the flesh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Compound2632 said: You ain't seen nuffin' yet... Guide to panelling dimensions is out to review. Just cleared the kids out of the house and poured myself a large glass of Ozzy red; you will have my undivided attention ... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Compound2632 said: Not a criticism at all but just a comment that these preferences show @Miss Prism's Great Western interests - absolutely nothing wrong with that. My position in favour of droplights for lavatory windows and blank luggage doors (except where also a guard's compartment) reflects Midland (and North Eastern) practice. The Midland didn't do duckets at this period, except on the 25' 4-wheeled full brakes. Just goes to show how hard it is to be "typical". It is inevitable that those providing proposed dimensions to Hatton's will do so based upon their own knowledge and preferences. Whether the eventual design frozen by Hatton's is more or less of a camel than their original design will only be obvious to a few. 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted October 16, 2019 Moderators Share Posted October 16, 2019 36 minutes ago, Ronny said: Shame we have to wait so long to see them in the flesh What corners do you want them to cut in the product development process? 2 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, Oldddudders said: It is inevitable that those providing proposed dimensions to Hatton's will do so based upon their own knowledge and preferences. Whether the eventual design frozen by Hatton's is more or less of a camel than their original design will only be obvious to a few. Well, I'm trying to take a catholic approach, having fed through on LB&SCR, GWR, LWSR and NER measurements! Others are collecting data for these and other companies, so I do feel that reasonable coverage is being provided to Hattons. Compound is working hard on this with a view to being typically prototypical; rest assured, no one is pushing a particular company's agenda here. 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackRoomBoffin Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 I'm mainly watching the assembled throng with awe, but with regard to Saxon chariot styles, it's worth pointing out that the Saxon kingdoms can be divided in the early kingdoms, the so-called Heptarchy, the period of VIking invasion, and the unified kingdom of England (ie pre-grouping, post-grouping, wartime, and nationalisation). So the 10th century drawing I posted is OT, as it's post-grouping (I think). I'll get me coat. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted October 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 minute ago, BackRoomBoffin said: I'm mainly watching the assembled throng with awe, but with regard to Saxon chariot styles, it's worth pointing out that the Saxon kingdoms can be divided in the early kingdoms, the so-called Heptarchy, the period of VIking invasion, and the unified kingdom of England (ie pre-grouping, post-grouping, wartime, and nationalisation). So the 10th century drawing I posted is OT, as it's post-grouping (I think). I'll get me coat. But post-grouping is off-topic, I'm afraid. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted October 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Hattons Dave said: I hope this helps. Cheers, Dave Take out one compartment and turn the luggage and guard's end around and you have S&DJR's 4 wheeled No. 33 and I wouldn't have to carve away the big GWR grab handles as I should have done when Triang clerestory bashing all those years ago! The current end pair of panels would be a bit too wide, but if the Triangs were good enough.... Edited October 16, 2019 by phil_sutters 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 I don't see the need for the separate guard's door. It's not a very large van section in the vehicle anyway. I think a dual-purpose guard's / luggage door forming half of the pair of doors would be seen as less wasteful of space in the van as well as probably cheaper to build and maintain, an ever important consideration for the less affluent of the pre-group companies.... Still taller panels in the waistband much preferred - at least tall enough to allow a hint of a straight section to the vertical moulding, rather than fully rounded ends to each panel. As a compromise, panels slightly taller and with slightly more tightly rounded corners could be tried. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2019 55 minutes ago, Edwardian said: Well, I'm trying to take a catholic approach, having fed through on LB&SCR, GWR, LWSR and NER measurements! Others are collecting data for these and other companies, so I do feel that reasonable coverage is being provided to Hattons. Compound is working hard on this with a view to being typically prototypical; rest assured, no one is pushing a particular company's agenda here. It certainly wasn't a criticism, merely an observation on process. And I, and most others, would be unlikely to spot the Company influence anyway. I am in no way less likely to be a purchaser than before. These will be fun. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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