'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[Compound2632]

It's as much a description of an approach to modelling, or even a state of mind. There's a magazine that at one time described itself as being "for the finescale modeller" and there was, briefly, the Finescale Model Railway Review. These weren't prescribing a particular set of standards.

 

The point is, perhaps, that the Hattons carriages aren't aimed at the "finescale modeller" - which does not imply that they won't meet up-to-date expectations of wheel profile or back-to-back.

[Nile]

3 hours ago, Northroader said:

Being curious, I followed the links back to Mike Trices GNR coaches, but getting onto the Shapeways site, nothing found?? I like the concept of doing them as a flatpack kit, rather than a one piece body, just the wrong scale.

here:

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/mike-trice

 

[Ravenser]

15 hours ago, Nile said:

here:

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/mike-trice

 

 

I think it is good to use this thread to give these kits a plug , for those who feel that the Hattons generics will not do as a representation of GNR coaches (a perfectly reasonable opinion) . They are straightforward kits , from someone with an excellent pedigree in the "cottage-industry" trade for 4mm LNER . There is extensive documentation for how to build them in Mike Trice's thread, linked earlier - far better than most kit instructions . And he has done a detailed thread on his "recipe" for teak finish

 

This is an initiative that deserves to prosper - and as purchase is through Shapeways , a boom in sales isn't going to swamp Mike Trice personally . Shapeways are set up to cope

 

To be honest , this is a much more constructive approach to the issue of coaches to match the GN Single than simply shouting at Hattons to serve the owners of Stirling Singles and forget about everyone else. A set of 3 coaches will cost only slightly more than a Single.... and be only a little more demanding to build than the Ratio kits everyone has been building for years

Edited November 27, 2019 by Ravenser

[truffy]

11 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

A set of 3 coaches will cost only slightly more than a Single.... and be only a little more demanding to build than the Ratio kits everyone has been building for years

The lining, on the other hand, will take you all the way to a mental breakdown.

[Compound2632]

10 minutes ago, truffy said:

The lining, on the other hand, will take you all the way to a mental breakdown.

 

The lining on the raised moldings ought to be straightfoward enough - to anyone who has mastered the technique for producing an effective teak finish!

 

But it's all there in Mike's trial build topic: 

 

 

[Craigw]

Terry (NSWGR 1855) is a modeller of the NSWGR in HO scale and a pretty accomplished one at that . On my reading of things, he purchased a Single and wanted some coaches to display behind it. Plainly, the Hattons ones will not satisfy him. Making suggestions or comments about things is perfectly valid though no matter how much some may dislike the idea.  Here is a youtube video of a DCC fitted loco on the layout of NSWGR 1855. He has done plenty of kit building and wanted something simple for once!

 

Craig W

 

 

[PhilJ W]

Just a thought, the Irish railways continued using four and six wheel stock even into the diesel era. What about some Irish liveries?

[Compound2632]

Looking at the wagons in the video of Terry's NSW layout Craig put up, I'm wondering if they'd also pass for early Australian carriages? (Some of those NSW wagons have a distinctly Irish look to them.)

Edited November 27, 2019 by Compound2632

[Craigw]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

Looking at the wagons in the video of Terry's NSW layout Craig put up, I'm wondering if they'd also pass for early Australian carriages? (Some of those NSW wagons have a distinctly Irish look to them.)

 

We actually have a pretty keen group of local modellers who are producing early NSW rolling stock now. Still a way to go but getting there. Here is a link to a Passenger van produced by SDS in early condition - injection moulded RTR. This aside there are kits being produced or that have been available. The Hattons coaches would probably exceed the loading gauge by the time you took the scale difference into account sadly.

 

http://www.sdsmodels.com.au/xehop.htm

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

 

 

[Compound2632]

5 hours ago, Craigw said:

 

Here is a link to a Passenger van produced by SDS in early condition - injection moulded RTR.

 

 

Some Wolverton emigre at work there!

[Compound2632]

I do think, though, that if there were to be any "finescale" RTR 6-wheelers, the Great Northern carriages are the most likely, since:

• the Locomotion Stirling single provides the (loco)motivation
• they are among the carriages for which the Hattons Genesis carriages are most evidently wrong
• the 1938 train provides an excuse for out-of-period running
• there have been persistent rumours...

Size of the market? Maybe 25% of Stirling single purchasers? Of course, availability might stimulate further Srirling single purchases. Pricing would no doubt be comparable to those SDS carriages, say £60 each - twice Hattons. 

[Wickham Green]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Some Wolverton emigre at work there!

....... though a Doncaster emigre designed the roof ! ........................................ Oops, are we still allowed to mention GNR roofs on this thread ?

[Andy Reichert]

Time is flying by for me because I'm older now.  But weren't Bachmann MK1 coaches around UKP 19 when they were first available?

 

Andy

[Compound2632]

The first coaches I bought, in 1972, were Mk 1s in blood & custard - they were £1.25 each; £16.20 in 2018 according to the Bank of England inflation calculator. Given the difference in quality between the Triang-Hornby Mk 1s and the models now on offer, I don't think the mark up in price is that unreasonable. After all, the old Triang-Hornby coaches can be got for rather less than £16.20 from second-hand stalls!

[Ravenser]

21 hours ago, Craigw said:

Terry (NSWGR 1855) is a modeller of the NSWGR in HO scale and a pretty accomplished one at that . On my reading of things, he purchased a Single and wanted some coaches to display behind it. Plainly, the Hattons ones will not satisfy him. Making suggestions or comments about things is perfectly valid though no matter how much some may dislike the idea.  Here is a youtube video of a DCC fitted loco on the layout of NSWGR 1855. He has done plenty of kit building and wanted something simple for once!

 

Craig W

 

 

 

 

Point taken,  but GN teak 6 wheelers and "something simple" don't go together . We established pretty quickly in the thread that the Hattons coaches weren't going to be convincing for the LNWR and GNR modeller (and there aren't an awful lot of the latter... Bill Bedford did some of the later Howlden bogie stock from the late 1890s as straightforward kits - but they were very short-run resin kits and not cheap. The market doesn't look like it's there )

 

These Hattons coaches are aimed at those who have bought recent RTR pre-grouping locos released in SECR , LBSCR , and GC livery , not to mention the various MR, GE and NE locos which are/will be available. There are quite a few locos available for each company ,  and that's clearly what  Hattons are aiming at.

 

The frustration arises from Terry's insistence that accurate RTR coaches for the Single must be the key focus for Hattons, and disregard every other company - when everyone this end had already concluded this project wasn't really going to suit the LNWR and GN

[Nile]

19 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

Just a thought, the Irish railways continued using four and six wheel stock even into the diesel era. What about some Irish liveries?

You're not the only one to have that thought.

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/7970-new-generic-4-and-6-wheel-coaches-in-00-what-can-we-use-them-for/

 

[Ravenser]

11 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Some Wolverton emigre at work there!

 

 

I have heard it said that there was a marked LNW influence on the NSWGR . On the other hand they also had a very close relationship with Beyer-Peacock over many decades (right down to the end and the AD60 Garretts)

 

I would respectfully point out that those SDS coaches are for stock which survived in revenue service well into the 1950s . That's not "early" in the way were are using it here - we are talking about vehicles from the 1870s-early 1890s which survived into the first half of the 1930s. ie a generation earlier  SDS can sell to post-war modellers : these Hattons coaches can't - except as service stock

[Craigw]

53 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

 

I have heard it said that there was a marked LNW influence on the NSWGR . On the other hand they also had a very close relationship with Beyer-Peacock over many decades (right down to the end and the AD60 Garretts)

 

I would respectfully point out that those SDS coaches are for stock which survived in revenue service well into the 1950s . That's not "early" in the way were are using it here - we are talking about vehicles from the 1870s-early 1890s which survived into the first half of the 1930s. ie a generation earlier  SDS can sell to post-war modellers : these Hattons coaches can't - except as service stock

 

The one I linked to is a full panelled version of the EHO, these had all been rebuilt well before WW2 and they are also produced in the "as delivered" livery. Granted, they are not 1870s-1890s vintage stock, but I am really scratching to think of much in the way of RTR UK rolling stock that is accurate even for the 1910-1920 period. 

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[chris45lsw]

On 27/11/2019 at 23:04, PhilJ W said:

Just a thought, the Irish railways continued using four and six wheel stock even into the diesel era. What about some Irish liveries?

Yes I'd buy some of these in Coras Iompair Eireann green livery.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

[GNR Dave]

You might be the only one though 

[PhilJ W]

14 hours ago, Nile said:

You're not the only one to have that thought.

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/7970-new-generic-4-and-6-wheel-coaches-in-00-what-can-we-use-them-for/

 

I see that there's a few there that don't understand the word generic as well.

[Robin Brasher]

Several examples of four and six wheel coaches have survived into the preservation area and I enclose a picture of a Midland Railway third class coach no 78 ' with a luggage rack heading for Carlisle which bears a passing resemblance to one of Hattons'  coaches. 

[Wickham Green]

..... apart from the square panelling and unusual vents 'n' louvres ...... and the luggage rack ............................

[Compound2632]

"Similar, apart from the differences" might be a suitable motto for this discussion.

 

Looking at No. 78 there for similarities, I've got:

• 4 wheels
•  

The Clayton 6-wheeler next along is more like.

[57xx]

6 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Looking at No. 78 there for similarities, I've got:

• 4 wheels
•  

 

Spooky, that's as far as I got too...