'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, RichardT said:

These theoretical carriages would initially be proposed on “rails” I’m guessing, at which point a more southern magic would come into play?  ;-)

 

Richard

You might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.....

[eldomtom2]

If you're into modifying RTR stock, you can always get Stroudley coaches by repainting and detailing Bachmann's "Red Coaches" from their Thomas range...

[barrymx5]

12 hours ago, Hattons Dave said:

Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback so far! A couple of updates on a few discussion points:

• RE the middle axle on the 6 wheel coaches - we understand the need for these coaches to run well through both Setrack curves and finescale track, and we've based our mechanism on successfully running models made for the European market. Thoroughly testing this design is part of the extensive testing that will be carried out when we receive the first Engineering Prototypes of the coaches. ...............

Cheers,

Dave

Thanks Dave

 

Reassuring.  Good to hear you are alert to the problem and have a solution. 
 

regards

 

Barry

[Otis JB]

On 25/08/2020 at 12:13, PhilJ W said:

Not necessarily so, certainly not in the diecast market. For every camel coloured coat a diecast model will sell in hundreds if not in thousands. A lot of other factors come in to play as well such as changes in the production line since the original model was produced. Also production facilities in China are booked well in advance so its not that easy to produce a second run. Its hard for manufacturers sometimes to predict demand so they tend to over order. With production costs so low they can afford to do so with sufficient profit on the first sales to make it worth their while. A prime example of this practice is the London Transport Museum shop. They will stock an item and say order 120 of that item. They expect to make an overall £500 profit on the sale of those 120 items so they 'mark up' each individual item by £5. Once 100 have been sold they have made their profit and the warehouse space is required. If the price they were sold at was £50 just to get rid of the stock they would sell the items off at knock down prices, £50 could be cut to as little as £10. Last year the LT museum sold off a number of Heljans Metropolitan Bo-Bo locomotives at £34 each and earlier this year they sold off the 'S' stock models at a very low price, less than £100 IIRC. Now both those models are selling at ridiculous prices, just check on e-bay.

 

£34 for a Bo-Bo?!?! That's less than the RRP for Hornby's ubiquitous 0-4-0s! I am in disbelief...

[Otis JB]

On 26/08/2020 at 13:17, Hattons Dave said:

Hi all,

We're heading West for today's set of colour layouts, showcasing the Hattons Genesis coach releases in GWR chocolate and cream.

You can view full images and place orders via the link below:

 

Hattons Genesis - GWR colour layouts.

 

As always, I'm interested in any feedback so feel free to share your thoughts here or via the Disqus tab on our website.

Cheers,

Dave

 

 

 

Bloomin' splendid Dave, thanks! 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Otis JB
typo believe it or not!

[PhilJ W]

27 minutes ago, Otis JB said:

 

£34 for a Bo-Bo?!?! That's less than the RRP for Hornby's ubiquitous 0-4-0s! I am in disbelief...

It was indeed, not sure how many they had left in stock but at that price they went in less than an hour. I have notification of such sales delivered to my in-box and as soon as I saw it I tried to get one but I was too late.

[Dunsignalling]

9 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

 

I assume that unlike most recent products these will go round a radius 1 curve?  If not, why is such track still being made?

 

I don't think Hatton's have said they will, and whether they can will depend on how much the centre axle is able to move within the underframe. These models are still under development so it's probably best to assume they won't unless and until they tell us otherwise. The 4-wheelers, of course, shouldn't have any trouble on them.

 

Presumably such curves are still being made to fulfil remaining demand for "backward compatibility" amongst the Smokey Joe fraternity - the vast majority of today's "good stuff" can't handle them.

 

Hornby generally seem to avoid even mentioning 1st radius these days; if you start off with current train sets and expansion packs, (unless I've missed an exception) you'll end up with 2nd and 3rd radius curves.  

 

John

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

Hornby generally seem to avoid even mentioning 1st radius these days; if you start off with current train sets and expansion packs, (unless I've missed an exception) you'll end up with 2nd and 3rd radius curves.  

 

 

The geometry was devised when the longest bogie vehicle was a Triang Mk1 - or even before that. Are there clearance issues for scale Mk3 or Mk1 carriages passing on a 1/2 radius double track? One of the great advantages of shorter carriages is that they don't look quite so ridiculous on tighter radii curves. The Triang shortie clerestories, at scale 46'6", are not far from ideal. 

 

In the 70s, Hornby made a battery-powered toy train that came with plastic track that looked like system 6 but was 0th radius - 67 mm less than 1st radius: 304 mm / 12". I don't think anybody's expecting the 6-wheelers to go round those but the chunky continental-style wagons with the battery set were not far off the length and wheelbase of the 4-wheelers. Of course those had the chunky Triang-style tension locks, so were pretty tolerant of end overthrow.

[Hattons Dave]

Hi all,

Thanks for keeping the replies coming! A couple more points and answers:

• First Radius curves - the coaches have been specified to run on a minimum of second radius. As with a lot of small wheelbase items we may find that they also run on first radius too during testing of the 1st EPs.
• GWR lining - thanks for the messages regarding this, this has been corrected.

Cheers,

Dave

[Dunsignalling]

23 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The geometry was devised when the longest bogie vehicle was a Triang Mk1 - or even before that. Are there clearance issues for scale Mk3 or Mk1 carriages passing on a 1/2 radius double track? One of the great advantages of shorter carriages is that they don't look quite so ridiculous on tighter radii curves. The Triang shortie clerestories, at scale 46'6", are not far from ideal. 

 

In the 70s, Hornby made a battery-powered toy train that came with plastic track that looked like system 6 but was 0th radius - 67 mm less than 1st radius: 304 mm / 12". I don't think anybody's expecting the 6-wheelers to go round those but the chunky continental-style wagons with the battery set were not far off the length and wheelbase of the 4-wheelers. Of course those had the chunky Triang-style tension locks, so were pretty tolerant of end overthrow.

IIRC, it was a very long time ago, after all: The larger of the Tri-ang Standard and Series 3 curves matched what we today know as No.2 radius. However, the double track spacing was greater, so the inner curves were smaller than No.1 radius, at 13 1/2" or thereabouts.

 

No.1 Radius (nominally 14 5/8") was introduced with Tri-ang's Super 4 track, which I think came along at around the same time as their scale-length Mk1 coaches. The geometry of that was retained in the System 6 range, which at last reduced the rail section to the Code 100 as previously used by Hornby Dublo.

 

I'm not sure if they still call it System 6, but that is basically still what Hornby make, albeit expanded to include Third and Fourth radii and things like high-speed points. The geometry has effectively become a "UK standard" for r-t-r, with Bachmann and Peco sectional track being made compatible with it.    

 

John

[MarkSG]

4 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

I'm not sure if they still call it System 6, but that is basically still what Hornby make, albeit expanded to include Third and Fourth radii and things like high-speed points. The geometry has effectively become a "UK standard" for r-t-r, with Bachmann and Peco sectional track being made compatible with it.   

 

Hornby's current track is the next iteration after System 6, and no longer uses that name. It's the same geometry, and is therefore interchangeable, but the current track is nickel silver rather than steel and has slightly different sleeper spacing.

 

Visually, Hornby's track is now pretty much identical to Peco Setrack. I have a feeling that Hornby deliberately made their track more like Peco's when they moved on from System 6, because the Peco design was better! Bachman's track, too, is near enough identical to both. From a customer perspective, though, that's fine because it makes all three brands fully interchangeable without even any significant visual difference as well as sharing the geometry.

[Compound2632]

Apologies for leading us off track...

 

We wait to see how these six-wheelers will swing round those curves! A second-radius reverse curve will be the limiting test - i.e. a crossover with standard set-track points.

[Dunsignalling]

53 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Apologies for leading us off track...

 

We wait to see how these six-wheelers will swing round those curves! A second-radius reverse curve will be the limiting test - i.e. a crossover with standard set-track points.

Which I'd expect to be the first thing to be tested.

 

The second should be propelling a train of them over the same crossover....

 

Get both of those dependably trouble free, and they'll have pretty much nailed it.

 

John

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Dunsignalling said:

The second should be propelling a train of them over the same crossover....

 

 

... and mixed 4 and 6-wheelers, which will have different overthrow, so putting the couplings through their paces.

[JohnR]

6 hours ago, MarkSG said:

 

Hornby's current track is the next iteration after System 6, and no longer uses that name. It's the same geometry, and is therefore interchangeable, but the current track is nickel silver rather than steel and has slightly different sleeper spacing.

 

Visually, Hornby's track is now pretty much identical to Peco Setrack. I have a feeling that Hornby deliberately made their track more like Peco's when they moved on from System 6, because the Peco design was better! Bachman's track, too, is near enough identical to both. From a customer perspective, though, that's fine because it makes all three brands fully interchangeable without even any significant visual difference as well as sharing the geometry.

 

Bachmann use the old Hornby track tooling, when it was made in Austria by Roco I believe?

 

[Hattons Dave]

Hi all,

A little late here due to the forum issues on Friday but here's the latest Genesis updates:

The latest completed colour layouts are SR olive green.

These have been produced for all the vehicles and can be seen and pre-ordered via the link below:

Hattons Genesis coaches - SR green livery

Cheers,

Dave

 

 

[Hattons Dave]

Hi all,

The second Hattons Genesis update today is another full colour render, this time in SECR livery.

You can view this from any angle in our 3D viewer without any additional software needed.

Click the link below to view the render and pre-order your coaches:

Hattons Genesis coaches SECR livery 3D render

As always, let us know what you think either here or on the Disqus thread on our website.

Cheers,

Dave

 

[sem34090]

Looks really nice! I really do prefer that shade of lake to the Bachmann/Bluebell shade. In the render it's perhaps looking the tiniest bit too light (it reminds me more of Metropolitan 'Deep Red') but it's looking wonderful.

[Opelsi]

Lovely coaches.

Must say that I really do prefer the Bachmann 'Dark Lake' colour myself though accept others having their own personal preferences.

I may wait and see if a later run materialises in the darker form as not too bothered if in this livery at the moment.

A quick straw pole might have been a good idea to see which was most popular, light or dark.

[sem34090]

Obviously not the soundest guide, but most of these postcards indicate a shade of lake much like @AVS1998 describes.

http://southeasternandchathamrailway.org.uk/gallery.html

Some of the more distant ones are a more brown shade, the rail motor is the only one which to me even remotely resembles Bachmann's shade. But definitely these indicate to me that the shade on the side (i.e. the bit in direct virtual light) of the render screenshot above is a bit light. The shade on the buffers looks to be closer.

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by sem34090

[Hattons Dave]

Hi all,

The image above is taken from the rendering software which includes an artificial light source. This will have an impact on the colours shown similar to looking at a model in direct sunlight, so will appear lighter and darker from certain angles.

I'd recommend looking at the render in the viewer via the link below to see it in different lighting conditions.

The colour itself will be as specified in the colour layouts which can also be found below:

Hattons Genesis coaches SECR livery 3D render

Cheers,

Dave

[sem34090]

I should have thought that; The colour in the renders looks alright to me.

[truffy]

Something I've just noticed about these is that the guard in the 4BT gets a nice view of the retreating landscape, while those in the 6BT and 6FB don't. I assume that that's because there are more side windows in the 6-wheelers' guard's compartment to let in light.

 

Was that a common practice? It certainly adds visual interest (and not just for the guard!)

[PhilJ W]

That depends, in some instances the only light in the guards compartment was through the door drop lights (Metropolitan) whereas others had well glazed ends (GER).

 

[Ravenser]

14 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

That depends, in some instances the only light in the guards compartment was through the door drop lights (Metropolitan) whereas others had well glazed ends (GER).

 

 

I suppose daylight was something of a notional concept on the steam-worked Circle anyway.... If there's not much to let in, why bother?