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'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement


Hattons Dave
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Hi all,

Lets start the week with our final set (from Batch 1) of Hattons Genesis approved colour layouts.

Displaced six wheel coaches were regularly used as departmental vehicles and we're producing a variety of these, covering liveries and locations across the UK from the 1930s to the 1970s.

Check out the link below to view the full colour layouts and place a pre-order.

Hattons Genesis coaches - Departmental liveries

As always, please let us know any feedback either here or via the Disqus box on our website.

Cheers,

Dave

 

H4-6BT-901A_border.jpg.488d18822c4470d98941437eac6abe8b.jpg

H4-6BT-901C_border.jpg.685c5131960221de3ae104c7b73f450d.jpg

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@Hattons Dave

 

All these look excellent, I'll have to decide what I'm ordering now the batch 1 artworks are finished. 

 

I did notice one minor deacrepancy on the two Breakdown Train vans. The staff riding van in your post above has a red buffer beam and thd other in black and but the matching tool van has both buffer beams in black. 

 

Personally I think the red buffer beam looks better but i'm not entirely sure whether they should be black or body colour. But thought I'd draw that to your attention incase it was an oversight when producing the artwork. 

 

Cheers. Matt

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On 07/09/2020 at 10:26, Pre Grouping fan said:

@Hattons Dave

 

All these look excellent, I'll have to decide what I'm ordering now the batch 1 artworks are finished. 

 

I did notice one minor deacrepancy on the two Breakdown Train vans. The staff riding van in your post above has a red buffer beam and thd other in black and but the matching tool van has both buffer beams in black. 

 

Personally I think the red buffer beam looks better but i'm not entirely sure whether they should be black or body colour. But thought I'd draw that to your attention incase it was an oversight when producing the artwork. 

 

Cheers. Matt


Thanks Matt, well spotted! This has now been amended.

Cheers,

Dave

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On 05/09/2020 at 12:32, Compound2632 said:

 

I would suggest that the Rails SECR van has chipped away at that argument. 

 

 

Like with previous other things, I believe that many people bought the vans because they were so limited and the chance of owning something different and special made them see past their relative simplicity. If you are a BR modeller where box vans would all (theoretically!) look quite similar in a train with the same few liveries and markings, I would ask would you still buy the van if it was easy to obtain, not to mention if its manufacturer still wanted £30+ for it. I agree that the demand is definitely for pre-grouping items but I think the van isn't the best example. The dog takes the bone because of the lack of other bones. Would the dog still take the bone if it had other bones to choose from? Deep down, does the dog actually want the bone? Is this a silly analogy? Life's mysteries...

 

Out of interest, does anyone have any idea about how big the batch sizes were for the vans? 

 

Cheers!

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Hi all,

Lets end the week with another interactive livery render. This time we're looking at our Genesis coaches in GWR chocolate and cream.
 

Don't forget you can view this from any angle in our 3D viewer without any additional software needed.

 

Click the link below to view the render and pre-order your coaches:

 

Hattons Genesis coaches GWR livery 3D render

 

As always, let us know what you think either here or on the Disqus thread on our website.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

 

GenesisRenderGWR_RMweb.jpg.bf99db2120ca19c06697ac77e9b98f64.jpg



 

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On 11/09/2020 at 04:55, Hattons Dave said:

Hi all,

Lets end the week with another interactive livery render. This time we're looking at our Genesis coaches in GWR chocolate and cream.
 

Don't forget you can view this from any angle in our 3D viewer without any additional software needed.

 

Click the link below to view the render and pre-order your coaches:

 

Hattons Genesis coaches GWR livery 3D render

 

As always, let us know what you think either here or on the Disqus thread on our website.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

 

GenesisRenderGWR_RMweb.jpg.bf99db2120ca19c06697ac77e9b98f64.jpg



 

Well these 3D renderings have sold me on a GWR set as well as an all brake single. One question I have concerns the axles—are they of a non-ferrous material? This is a concern for those who use under the rails magnets for uncoupling as ferrous axles are attracted by the magnets and tend to afrect rolling stock performance. I have had to replace all the Peco kit wheelsets with Horby ones due to this problem. Also non-metallic axles would make power pickups much easier since they would electrically isolate the wheels. Looking forward to running these with my GWR Mogul if they ever really arrive!

 

EDIT—Sorry, but after testing the Hornby wheelsets I found that it is the wheels not the axles that are non ferrous and do not respond to a manget. Either way I’d hate to have to replace these nice wheels and it might interfere with the power pickups of lighted cars. I may have to order the unlit ones and do it myself with function only DCC decoders.

Edited by Cofga
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Hornby coach wheels with non-ferrous axles? Are you sure? I didn't think such a thing existed, apart from plastic ones.

I thought all British 00 RTR wheels has ferrous axles, but a quick check revealed that Oxford wagons don't.

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20 minutes ago, Nile said:

I forgot about those. Defineatley metallic (for electrical pick-up), but non-magnetic.

Badly phrased by me

I was writing "non magnetic" but my fingers went elsewhere;)

They've done similar with Tender wheelsets.

Edited by melmerby
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OK, let’s do that again now that I have refreshed my memory. After I built the Peco GWR 4 wheelers I ran into the problem with the coaches stopping during a free roll as they passed over an under track magnet. I tested my Hornby coaches and they didn’t do it. So I ordered a couple sets of Hornby  R8218 14.1mm coach wheels and swapped them out. I just tested these with a magnet and it is the wheels themselves that are apparently non ferrous not the axles. On the Peco wheels both the axles and wheels are apparently ferrous as they are magnetic which is why they bring the vehicle to a halt over the under track magnet. I have no idea what Hornby uses for their wheels—turned aluminum?

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30 minutes ago, Cofga said:

OK, let’s do that again now that I have refreshed my memory. After I built the Peco GWR 4 wheelers I ran into the problem with the coaches stopping during a free roll as they passed over an under track magnet. I tested my Hornby coaches and they didn’t do it. So I ordered a couple sets of Hornby  R8218 14.1mm coach wheels and swapped them out. I just tested these with a magnet and it is the wheels themselves that are apparently non ferrous not the axles. On the Peco wheels both the axles and wheels are apparently ferrous as they are magnetic which is why they bring the vehicle to a halt over the under track magnet. I have no idea what Hornby uses for their wheels—turned aluminum?

Either Nickel Silver or plated brass, I think. Probably the latter.

 

Non- magnetic replacement axles in various lengths are obtainable from www.Proto87.com who are (I think) based on your side of the pond.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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I have to say I am impressed by the latest livery renderings for the Great Northern and London & North Western Railways. Although the body mouldings are inappropriate for those lines, the way the lining has been applied manages to minimise the discrepancies, at least on the CAD pictures; whether it will be as successful on the actual model, or with the simpler South Eastern and Chatham livery, remains to be seen.  

Many modellers, particularly those who have acquired Hornby and/or Rails Terriers in LBSC Stroudley livery will have images of tiny locos pulling tiny coaches, as shown by the likes of Burgundy, SkinnyLinny and BlueLightning using scale kits from Roxey, K’s, Smallbrook, SkinnyLinny and even ex-Thomas Bachmann products.  Although the initial proposals were very close to Stroudley designs, subsequently Hatton’s have elected to go for a longer body, and as the roof profile is the same as for the 6-wheelers, which is also noticeably higher, this means that the Genesis coaches will be some 12% bigger than a scale Stroudley, and the look may not be as expected.

785226187_stroudleythirdcomparison.png.302ef7317f5528cf76e6b52f5e310404.png

However, all is not lost, because Stroudley’s successor, Robert Billinton, produced in 1896 four sets of 4-wheeled coaches to the higher roof profile and 28 feet long, and with bolection mouldings, which were absent on the Stroudley stock.  Apart from the precise arrangement of the guard’s lookout, (perhaps someone will produce an etching for correcting this) and the handrails, the Genesis models are a pretty accurate representation of designs which have not been catered for by the kit manufacturers.  The sets included a four compartment first, a five compartment second, five compartment third and a three compartment third brake, all closely matching Hatton’s designs, and three of the sets were fitted with gas lighting from the start, and I believe at least one appeared in the later umber and white livery, so plenty of potential for subsequent releases, perhaps.  As other have noted, three sets of these Billinton 4-wheelers were sent to the Isle of Wight, and would make a sensible 4-pack with the correct numbering in Southern livery.

I’m a bit surprised that Hatton’s haven’t gone initially with the oil lamp fittings for the 4-wheelers, which many would have wanted to complete a more Victorian looking Terrier-hauled train, although the gas lighting suits the Billinton stock. A minor point is that up until 1908 or so, second class was still common on the Brighton, and the composite carriages, both 4 and 6 wheel, should really be labelled First and Second whilst in mahogany, but downgraded to First and Third by the period of the all-over umber that Hatton’s had looked at earlier.  

Regarding the 6-wheeled stock, the five compartment third should really be only 30’ long, but there were also five compartment seconds which were the 32’ length of the Genesis design, and unfortunately the LBSC had no brake thirds or seconds which had the guard’s ducket away from the end, or a lavatory first.  There are some unnecessary numbering mistakes, the lavatory composite (1st & 2nd) is numbered as a smaller Stroudley version, although there were at least two accurate Billinton examples that could have be used, and the numbers chosen for the third brake and full brake are all those of 1906 built vehicles, which would probably not have appeared in mahogany, as the umber and white livery was adopted in 1905, whereas similar designs had been built from 1893.

I know that numbering is probably at the back of most purchasers’ minds, but it seems a pity that the correct information doesn’t seem to have been received, and a few minor changes to the lettering and numbering would make these lovely items even more accurate, and less prone to critical sniping. I wonder if there is a market for part-finished coaches, with all the paintwork and lining there, but no numbers, lettering or company insignia, so that those who can be bothered can apply their own, particularly useful for the likes of Edwardian who fancy a rake of these for their own railway company, whether fictitious or one of several that are unlikely to enter Hatton’s cross-hairs, such as the Glasgow & South Western, Cambrian or Furness Railways?

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13 minutes ago, Nick Holliday said:

 

Robert Billinton, produced in 1896 four sets of 4-wheeled coaches to the higher roof profile and 28 feet long, and with bolection mouldings, which were absent on the Stroudley stock. 

 

Stroudley's carriages had the glass inserted from the inside up against the exterior framing, with bolections inside, IIRC. Billinton followed the more usual practice of inserting the glass from the outside, held in place by the exterior bolection moldings with which we are familiar. As Stroudly's design was rather unusual, it's inappropriate for a generic carriage.

Edited by Compound2632
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6 hours ago, Cofga said:

OK, let’s do that again now that I have refreshed my memory. After I built the Peco GWR 4 wheelers I ran into the problem with the coaches stopping during a free roll as they passed over an under track magnet. I tested my Hornby coaches and they didn’t do it. So I ordered a couple sets of Hornby  R8218 14.1mm coach wheels and swapped them out. I just tested these with a magnet and it is the wheels themselves that are apparently non ferrous not the axles. On the Peco wheels both the axles and wheels are apparently ferrous as they are magnetic which is why they bring the vehicle to a halt over the under track magnet. I have no idea what Hornby uses for their wheels—turned aluminum?

That makes more sense. The wheels that are included in Peco/Ratio/Parkside 00 kits are made by Alan Gibson and have steel axles and rims. It's the rims that cause problems with uncoupling magnets (the same for me in 009), the axles are usually far enough away from the magnets to not be a problem. I agree that non-magnet wheelsets (blackened brass) would be ideal, these can be sourced in China as well.

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6 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Plated Mazak .......... I tried re-profiling some on Pullman cars to retain the lighting pickup - 'orrible stuff to work with !

Yukk 

 

Suggest Alan Gibson part no. 4M52: shorting-out bushes for Romford etc. wheels. Apply to one side only [:jester:] and insert them in the same orientation as the originals.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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Catching up on my reading, I came across an analysis of the prevalence of four and six wheeled passenger carrying vehicles in the Railway Magazine for July 1934. It’s quite an extensive article so I will summarise.  The state of play is given in 1928 through to 1932.

 

                     1928             1932

GWR            1,887              912

LMS             3,990            1,486

LNER           5,233            3,598

SR                1,015               551

 

GWR

 

Remainder confined to a few branches in short sets and workmen’s trains. Odd vehicles are kept at stations as strengtheners or for emergency use. The Bristol area was previously a stronghold for 4 and 6 wheelers but these vehicles were sent to South Wales for use in workmen’s trains. Some special saloons (Picnic or Invalid presumably) are recently refurbished.

 

SR

 

Very few vehicles in regular service. 9 and 13 coach sets (LSW, SER & LCDR origin) stored in the London area and used for holiday traffic only and have been loaned out. On the Isle of Wight 50% of the stock is 6-wheeled of LCDR origin. Previously, many of 4 and 6 wheeled vehicles were mounted on new bogie underframes.

 

LMS

 

Still to be found on branch lines throughout the system usually converted to electric lighting. When provided for workmen’s trains the upholstery has generally been removed. In England and Wales it is mainly LNW stock that survived but with a fair smattering of Midland (even pre-clerestory examples). In Scotland examples from all three companies were running as workmen’s trains and on the Highland they were still found at junction stations as strengtheners.

 

LNER

 

Still to be found in every area of the system, except the former NER. Particularly prevalent on the GER section both in London, on East Anglian branches and on the main line alongside bogie stock. Quite a few had gangways fitted for ticket purposes. The GN out of King’s Cross still had gas-lit 6-wheelers and these could also be found as strengtheners on semi-fasts. They were also to be found in the East Midlands as were ex-GC vehicles, especially on excursions. GC 6-wheeled stock remained in use in Manchester and south Merseyside suburban workings. The NBR had a few in use around Edinburgh and the GNSR had some quite modern examples in use all over its lines and on semi-fasts.

 

Joint Lines

 

The CLC uses 6-wheelers in Manchester and the M&GN stock is almost entirely of that type (GNR origin).

 

There was no mention of the SDJR.

 

The article was compiled from observations sent in by readers.

 

Six-wheeled brakes and other NPCS are not included and we know many lasted much, much longer.

 

I respect of livery, I can only speak for the LMS. The survey covers the change to the simple livery and so it is likely that nearly all would have remained fully lined until withdrawal, a bit faded but probably clean (except for the workmen’s trains).

 

 

Alan

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3 hours ago, Buhar said:

The state of play is given in 1928 through to 1932.

 

There was no mention of the SDJR.

 

 

A significant decline over a relatively brief period.

 

The S&DJR passenger stock was divided between the LMS and Southern in 1930. Records survive for the stock transferred to the Southern, which withdrew its share of the surviving 6-wheelers more-or-less immediately (most going in March 1930) with the bogie carriages surviving until the mid-late 30s [R, Garner, The Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway Locomotive and Rolling Stock Registers 1886-1930 (The Somerset & Dorset Railway Trust, 2000)].

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In 1932 the IOW stock had no 6 wheelers,  the 50% figure given is probably right for ex 6 wheel LCDR vehicles although all had been converted to 4 wheelers.  This was not done specifically for the Island but mainly around 1919 when a lot of 6 wheel mainline stock was cascaded to suburban duties.  By this time LCDR  bogie vehicles were arriving as replacements, several sets each year.  A small number of other non LCDR stock was also in use.

The last 4 wheelers in general traffic on the Island were withdrawn in 1938 although the Freshwater line mail set which was formed of three 4 wheel brake thirds lasted until BR days in 1949, its replacement had probably been delayed by WW2.

 

Pete

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