RMweb Gold Budgie Posted September 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said: What locomotives are Hatton's expecting people to haul these coaches with? There is not a lot out there. I am going to apply Rule 1. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 3rd Rail Exile Posted September 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, Budgie said: I am going to apply Rule 1. Endless opportunities for fictitious "heritage lines" as well - if Didcot can run Dean 4-wheel Brake 3rd No 416 (coupled with Dean 3rd 1941 and Churchward Brake 3rd 3755) behind 6023 in BR Blue and 2099 in GWR Green as they did a few weekends ago, then surely pretty much "anything goes"! 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted September 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Budgie said: I am going to apply Rule 1. By far the best strategy in this case. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, maico said: Quite a few of the older stock seems to have ended up as camping carriages 15 hours ago, Compound2632 said: A few. On the LMS, old bogie carriages were preferred. At least twelve ex-LCDR 6-wheelers on SR https://sremg.org.uk/coach/camping.html Although I’m not sure whether they’re wearing SR or LCDR livery. Probably the former. The latter isn’t among any of the first three batches. Edited September 18, 2020 by truffy Further information 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted September 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, truffy said: At least twelve ex-LCDR 6-wheelers on SR https://sremg.org.uk/coach/camping.html Although I’m not sure whether they’re wearing SR or LCDR livery. Probably the former. The latter isn’t among any of the first three batches. Photo caption says in BR days but no later than 1953 - so they certainly won't be in LCDR livery! If they were repainted every seven years or so, they would probably have been repainted two or three times in SECR days and maybe once or twice again in Southern days before conversion in 1934. My guess would be that when converted to camping coaches they were repainted in plain Southern green - but which shade is anybody's guess. Edited September 18, 2020 by Compound2632 Added date of conversion from caption and consequently changed estimate of repaints. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted September 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2020 The LNER painted most of their camping coaches in the green/cream tourist livery. They were frequently moved about the system and placed in storage during the winter months as well so it would be quite legitimate to include one in a (goods?) train formation. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maico Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, truffy said: At least twelve ex-LCDR 6-wheelers on SR https://sremg.org.uk/coach/camping.html Although I’m not sure whether they’re wearing SR or LCDR livery. Probably the former. The latter isn’t among any of the first three batches. Wikipedia gives some numbers by region. There were 25 6-wheelers in Northern Island available for booking pre-war for example, 64 in GWR land, 100+ LNER https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camping_coach Edited September 18, 2020 by maico 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted September 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, maico said: Wikipedia gives some numbers by region. There were 25 6-wheelers in Northern available for booking pre-war for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camping_coach That confirms that all LMS camping coaches were conversions from bogie coaches, except in Northern Ireland. An interesting point there is that the carriages were moved around freely, so had not been disabled but retained full running gear, brakes, etc. No steam heating when on site, though. The LNER poster shows a nicely generic carriage! Edited September 18, 2020 by Compound2632 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted September 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2020 Another possible livery perhaps? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 17 hours ago, Compound2632 said: ...On the LMS, old bogie carriages were preferred (as camping coaches). But to make up for that, they had ex-NLR four wheeler sets running from Broad street onto the LNER ex-GNR mainline out to Potters Bar as the country end terminus, almost until these services were abandoned at the start of WWII. Does anyone know when the last of these four wheeler sets operated? The answer is probably 'ask Dennis Lovett!') The available RTR model for traction, the 3F 'Jinty', which displaced the ancient NLR 4-4-0's in the early thirties (3P 2-6-2T's tried and found wanting). 17 hours ago, Compound2632 said: Pour encourager les autres. ...The third tranche is a bit more speculative... Hattons are on a good bet there, however. With the great majority of late surviving steam subjects without models now of pre-group origin, there will be more to join what must already be near 30 pre-group origin designs that worked passenger trains, available or announced from RTR OO. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted September 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2020 1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: But to make up for that, they had ex-NLR four wheeler sets running from Broad street onto the LNER ex-GNR mainline out to Potters Bar as the country end terminus, almost until these services were abandoned at the start of WWII. Does anyone know when the last of these four wheeler sets operated? The answer is probably 'ask Dennis Lovett!') The available RTR model for traction, the 3F 'Jinty', which displaced the ancient NLR 4-4-0's in the early thirties (3P 2-6-2T's tried and found wanting). I hadn't realised those lasted that long. The LMS built seven six-coach sets of bogie 57-fters with second class accommodation in 1930-32 for North London services but it's not evident* exactly which routes these worked [*from R.J. Essery and D. Jenkinson, The LMS Coach (Ian Allan, 1969)]. Photos of LMS Standard 3F 0-6-0Ts with ex-NLR stock at Finsbury Park and at Cannonbury; with ex-LNWR 4-wheel stock (a first attempt at upgrading from the old LNWR stock) at Shoreditch, and, I think, the new LMS 57 ft stock, also at Shoreditch, all c. 1932. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted September 18, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Compound2632 said: Photo caption says in BR days but no later than 1953 - so they certainly won't be in LCDR livery! If they were repainted every seven years or so, they would probably have been repainted two or three times in SECR days and maybe once or twice again in Southern days before conversion in 1934. My guess would be that when converted to camping coaches they were repainted in plain Southern green - but which shade is anybody's guess. I'm pretty certain SR Camping Coaches were repainted in in the course of conversion, but I'd be very surprised if they hadn't already received green livery long before that. It must be said though, that both the SR and BR(s) would have regarded repainting anything other than front-rank coaches more often than once a decade as a gross extravagance.... My plan is to have a couple of these for that purpose, but I'll be invoking Rule 1 for my 1957-62 time-frame. I think the 6-wheel Camping Coaches had all been replaced with bogie vehicles by around 1954. John 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 4 hours ago, Compound2632 said: Photo caption says in BR days but no later than 1953 - so they certainly won't be in LCDR livery! If they were repainted every seven years or so, they would probably have been repainted two or three times in SECR days and maybe once or twice again in Southern days before conversion in 1934. My guess would be that when converted to camping coaches they were repainted in plain Southern green - but which shade is anybody's guess. Actually, they wouldn’t have been LCDR livery anyway, since they would’ve gone into SECR pregrouping. Stupid me. I don’t know much use and love they would’ve received under SR, but they would certainly have been refurbished prior to camping use. So in that photo they would be green. But, as you say, whether Maunsell or malachite, or a variation of either it’s difficult to say. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainwright1 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 There are pictures of two ex-LC&DR six wheeled camping coaches at Amberley I recall seeing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted September 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, truffy said: Actually, they wouldn’t have been LCDR livery anyway, since they would’ve gone into SECR pregrouping. Stupid me. I don’t know much use and love they would’ve received under SR, but they would certainly have been refurbished prior to camping use. So in that photo they would be green. But, as you say, whether Maunsell or malachite, or a variation of either it’s difficult to say. Wouldn't 1934 still be Maunsell green? A far more restful colour for a holiday let... 1 minute ago, wainwright1 said: There are pictures of two ex-LC&DR six wheeled camping coaches at Amberley I recall seeing. The very photo under discussion! https://sremg.org.uk/coach/camping.html. Edited September 18, 2020 by Compound2632 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 6 hours ago, Compound2632 said: Wouldn't 1934 still be Maunsell green? A far more restful colour for a holiday let... Most definitely NOT malachite at that date ......... so 99.99% certain they'd be Maunsell green unless ( 0.01% ? ) they might have been considered 'structures' rather than 'rolling stock'. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted September 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Wickham Green too said: Most definitely NOT malachite at that date ......... so 99.99% certain they'd be Maunsell green unless ( 0.01% ? ) they might have been considered 'structures' rather than 'rolling stock'. I think we've seen that they were moved around! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Compound2632 said: I think we've seen that they were moved around! They certainly returned to works for overhaul in the winter - as did all (?) Camping Coaches - but they certainly weren't passenger carrying stock so the thinking MIGHT have been different. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted September 18, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 18, 2020 (edited) The newest camping coach and far from its original home, must be ex BR mk3 sleeper coach No 10651 which is now at Whitehead, Co. Antrim for use as overnight accommodation for RPSI volunteers with an early start to get locomotives steamed up for railtours etc. The coach was renumbered "Caravan No 26" being the next number in the series of LMS NCC camping coaches. https://www.steamtrainsireland.com/rpsi-collection/26/26-mk3-sleeper-carriage Photos from RPSI web site. Edited September 19, 2020 by Colin_McLeod Correction to number. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted September 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2020 I don't believe the NCC ever had any sleeping cars but I think it can be argued that the Mk3 sleeper stands in a continuous line of development from the LNWR/WCJS sleeping saloons of the 1890s, that introduced transverse berths. So an LMS-derived livery is most appropriate! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted September 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2020 Being pedantic it is numbered "Caravan No. 26" not "Camping Coach No.26" 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted September 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2020 9 hours ago, melmerby said: Being pedantic it is numbered "Caravan No. 26" not "Camping Coach No.26" Whatever, it looks smashing. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted September 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2020 10 hours ago, melmerby said: Being pedantic it is numbered "Caravan No. 26" not "Camping Coach No.26" My error. Corrected. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted September 19, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2020 It does look rather smart Pity it's not going to move again. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis JB Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 On 17/09/2020 at 20:31, Budgie said: I am going to apply Rule 1. I'm sure I always do, if I mean to or not, no matter the situation! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts