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'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement


Hattons Dave
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6 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

That teak one on the first page is LCDR not LBSCR. The carriages Hattons are doing are far to modern in appearance for an earlier LBSC livery. 

 

Gary, I'm afraid I don't get this. The Hattons carriages are generic vehicles of, roughly, the mid eighties to the turn of the century - so the idea is that they will pass for carriages built in the elder Billinton's time. The mahogany livery was abandoned in 1903, shortly before his death in service the following year. Therefore Brighton carriages of this type will have been in the mahogany livery from new and presumably retained it in diminishing numbers throughout the reign of Edward VII. I'd take the view that Hattons are right to stick with a livery choice that is compatible with the Hornby offering. This means that anyone wanting to run Terriers in IEG* has a choice of carriage styles and can go some way to representing the mixed rakes seen in photos from the late nineties up to around the turn of the century, while the Hattons carriages are suitable for those with engines liveried for the umber period, up to a point. 

 

*And let's face it: who could resist? It takes a great effort of willpower: repeat after me: Kirtley, Johnson, Deeley; Kirtley, Johnson, Deeley; ...

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I agree that mahogany is the right livery for them, I was just pointing out that the teak livery in picture on the first page was not LBSC, and that they style is too late for a livery earlier than mahogany, that having been used since 1872. So if Hattons wanted to switch to not be releasing the same livery as Hornby (Which I don't think they would at this stage) it would need to be a later livery, therefore umber.

 

Some 6 wheeled stock did receive umber from 1903, but not all. Suburban stock never received the white upper panels, and in one of my books, I cannot for the life of me remember which, but not Southern Style as I just checked, there is reference to mahogany stock not receiving umber and white due to the work required to paint the white panels. So all over umber would be OK for at least some of the Hattons stock, if you use it's genericness to claim it is Billinton stock (certainly easier to do than with Hornby's ones!) but mahogany is definitely the livery I would have them in if I were producing them.

 

Gary

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@BlueLightning, Gary, apologies, there was some confusion on my part. I had assumed the Hornby LBSCR carriages are in mahogany, which, if they represent Stroudley carriages, is the only appropriate livery for them, but having looked again I see they are a sort of plain reddish colour. So it's Hornby not Hattons who are up the creek on this issue, as one might predict from everything else one has seen of the two offerings.

Edited by Compound2632
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The Hornby ones are supposed to be mahogany, they seem to have been matched to the Bluebells Stroudley first for colour, they are close to it, but slightly too red, and the finish looks toy like which I think emphasises the red even more. I think they could be improved with nothing more that a coat of varnish, but I haven't gotten around to trying yet.

 

Gary

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Just now, BlueLightning said:

The Hornby ones are supposed to be mahogany, they seem to have been matched to the Bluebells Stroudley first for colour, they are close to it, but slightly too red, and the finish looks toy like which I think emphasises the red even more. I think they could be improved with nothing more that a coat of varnish, but I haven't gotten around to trying yet.

 

Thanks. Perhaps I'm being too literal-minded. Mahogany, like teak, is a close-grained tropical hardwood which exhibits variation in colour depending upon where it is sourced and which part of the tree it is cut from. Therefore I am expecting to see a finish much as Hornby have managed for their teak carriages but distinctly redder, rather than a uniform "paint" finish. Am I wrong?

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Both companies have cheated and and gone for a flat colour, which can be explained easily by saying they are the stock later in life, as once the finish of the wood was such that a revarnish couldn't bring it back to the standard the LBSC wanted they received a coat of mahogany paint, so the uniform finish is not wrong, but it would have be nice to see one of them looking like varnished wood.

 

Stroudley's stock was made from Honduras Mahogany, so that is the type of wood the paint was trying to match.

 

Gary

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

*And let's face it: who could resist? It takes a great effort of willpower: repeat after me: Kirtley, Johnson, Deeley; Kirtley, Johnson, Deeley; ...

I understand what you are saying but you have the wrong names! 

 

Armstrong, Dean, Churchward; Armstrong, Dean, Churchward;.....are what you are looking for! :jester:

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27 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

Stroudley's stock was made from Honduras Mahogany, so that is the type of wood the paint was trying to match.

 

I googled Honduras Mahogany and am none the wiser as to what colour it should be!

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13 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I googled Honduras Mahogany and am none the wiser as to what colour it should be!

 

In that case, you are in luck, as I just so happen to have a cabinet made of Honduras Mahogany in my kitchen, seen here with both Phoenix Precision and Hornby's attempt at the colour, So as you an see, Hornby's while not great, isn't particularly bad either (and unlike that other carriage, they at least bothered to do the lining :jester:)

 

Gary

 

819499693_2021-02-2310_45_07.jpg.91e49363bcf62632f8df4a6455127b69.jpg

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I'm not sure it would, it's a very plastic-y finish on the Hornby carriage, although something to tone down the lining would be good, it's brightness is caused by it being over thick, but I don't think Hornby could have made it any thinner, perhaps doing a slightly darker colour would have given a better effect

 

Gary

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2 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

I'm not sure it would, it's a very plastic-y finish on the Hornby carriage, although something to tone down the lining would be good, it's brightness is caused by it being over thick, but I don't think Hornby could have made it any thinner, perhaps doing a slightly darker colour would have given a better effect

 

Gary

Perhaps rubbing it with a finger would tone it down.

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4 hours ago, BlueLightning said:

Some 6 wheeled stock did receive umber from 1903, but not all. Suburban stock never received the white upper panels, and in one of my books, I cannot for the life of me remember which, but not Southern Style as I just checked, there is reference to mahogany stock not receiving umber and white due to the work required to paint the white panels. So all over umber would be OK for at least some of the Hattons stock, if you use it's genericness to claim it is Billinton stock (certainly easier to do than with Hornby's ones!) but mahogany is definitely the livery I would have them in if I were producing them.

 

Gary

This is quite confusing.

Any chance of a simple table showing the time periods and what colours used, possibly linked to the appropriate loco livery/lettering style. Then matching where possible the liveries being offered on these models.

 

Ray

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11 minutes ago, wainwright1 said:

This is quite confusing.

Any chance of a simple table showing the time periods and what colours used, possibly linked to the appropriate loco livery/lettering style. Then matching where possible the liveries being offered on these models.

 

Here you go, courtesy of the Brighton Circle. It's where I've got all my information from!

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24 minutes ago, SteamingWales said:

Just had an email from Hattons showing off GWR Painted Samples and they look amazing!!!!!!!

 

 

Absolutely and I'm finding them hard to resist.:rolleyes:

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5 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

Livery looks excellent.

 

May just be me but the lighting looks way to bright still for the period.

 

I agree, but with the pull-off roofs it should be possible to put some paint over the LEDs.

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Moreover, one does not know what camera settings were used, but it is likely that the lighting is a bit on the bright side; nearly all model railway lighting is.  I suspect 'marketing' insists that it should be clearly visible in normal 'daylight' conditions that the lighting is on, which in reality is nonsence; the real lighting was pretty feeble, electric not significantly brighter than oil or gas.  Even into the 70s, where stock retained incandescent filament bulbs, it had to be pretty dark outside for one to see that the lights were on inside the coaches; flourescent and later halogen or led lighting has completely transformed this and lighting can be seen to be on even through tinted windows on all but the brightest days.

 

A wash of acylic cream or white will easily take the edge off.  Don't forget that night time was much darker in those days (kids terday, don't know they're born), especially in urban areas where street lighting, shop displays left on all overnight, and advertising make it harder to see if passing trains are lit, and even in many semi-rural locations bright lighting is apparent; there are not many places you can now stand at night that are not within a mile of some light source, and usually the distance is much less.

 

Cwmdimbath has an auto set with Amazon cheapo Chinese lighting, warm led strips powered by CR2032 battery in much the same form as the Hornby 4/6 wheel coach lighting, and I have had to tone these down considerably by painting over them to get the sort of effect that I remember from back in the day.  They are probably still too bright, but much less intrusively so.  I also have platform, street, and some building interior lighting, which has also been toned down, as have my Dapol lit signals.  The purpose is to emulate the atmosphere of a rainy day in the 50s in the South Wales mountain fastnesses, as there are no working head or tail lamps on the trains for proper 'nigh' operation.

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