James Harrison Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 My only worry is, when mine arrive, will I decide they're too nice to risk repainting? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 4, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 4, 2021 5 hours ago, James Harrison said: My only worry is, when mine arrive, will I decide they're too nice to risk repainting? Surely it is the nicely applied liveries on a basically inaccurate coach that make these look so good? Why would you even consider repainting them? 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Harrison Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Just now, melmerby said: Surely it is the nicely applied liveries on a basically inaccurate coach that make these look so good? Why would you even consider repainting them? Because the livery I want isn't on offer. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 4, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 4, 2021 5 hours ago, Oldddudders said: Sam's form of presentation grates because I find it verbose and lugubrious. Goes with the times. From what I have seen, clear concise info is not the normal on "social" media. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 4, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, James Harrison said: Because the livery I want isn't on offer. No kits available that could be modified? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Harrison Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 1 minute ago, melmerby said: No kits available that could be modified? What is the difference between modifying a kit, and modifying one of these though? And what if the kits that you're asking about are either 1) difficult to come by 2) in materials that I don't feel comfortable with 3) the manufacturer has assume a degree of ability that not everybody has 4) more expensive than this RTR alternative 5) require additional materials and components to be sourced, at additional expense (assuming that between the kit being tooled and the present, they haven't been taken off the market) Or what about if 6) I'm buying these specifically for the challenge of seeing whether they can be made closer to my prototype 7) these are quite close enough for my purposes 8) I happen to be modelling a freelance railway Or are we driving more at the 'you're not a proper modeller if you buy these' sort of attitude? 6 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 10 hours ago, ChrisN said: I was interested that they had a 'Smoking' sign in one window of a GWR coach. I will not be picky and ask if they have changed the colour of the seats. That sort of detail is amazing, and would make what I am building look a little poor. However, I am waiting for the LNWR coaches as I need through coaches and I am sure they will certainly look the part. You're quite right - the seats should be tobacco-stained, as should the paintwork. 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 4, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 4, 2021 4 hours ago, James Harrison said: Or are we driving more at the 'you're not a proper modeller if you buy these' sort of attitude? As I don't build coach kits apart from a few Ratio GW ones and I intend to buy a couple of rakes of these coaches, that is a charge you can't lay at my feet. I was just curious as to why someone would want to "deface" such exquisite liveries and wondered whether some cheap plastic kits might do the job. (e.g. Ratio) 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted May 4, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 4, 2021 8 minutes ago, melmerby said: I was just curious as to why someone would want to "deface" such exquisite liveries If such iconoclasm makes one wince one could attack one of the simpler-liveried versions such as the LNER brown or remove from circulation some of the ones where the livery is less appropriate for the panelling style such as the GNR or LNWR vesions! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted May 4, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 4, 2021 Pity they don't do any undecorated. Many diecast makers offer their models in plain white for the buyer to add paint and decals. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Harrison Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 1 hour ago, melmerby said: As I don't build coach kits apart from a few Ratio GW ones and I intend to buy a couple of rakes of these coaches, that is a charge you can't lay at my feet. I was just curious as to why someone would want to "deface" such exquisite liveries and wondered whether some cheap plastic kits might do the job. (e.g. Ratio) I've got some Ratio ones but these are closer to what I want. 1 hour ago, Compound2632 said: If such iconoclasm makes one wince one could attack one of the simpler-liveried versions such as the LNER brown or remove from circulation some of the ones where the livery is less appropriate for the panelling style such as the GNR or LNWR vesions! I've gone for the GNR type myself as I need a teak/mahogany sort of finish, with gas lighting. Now it's just darkening that down. I'm sure I'll find a more appropriate starting point, but GNR seems to fit the bill. 4 minutes ago, PhilJ W said: Pity they don't do any undecorated. Many diecast makers offer their models in plain white for the buyer to add paint and decals. If they were offered undecorated that's the option I'd have chosen too! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhutnick Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 I am in the US and may just be accustomed to somewhat different practices. Couldn't Hatton's simply sell undecorated versions? Anyone who wants to complain about liveries could simply paint their own. Of course, this would negate some of the discussion here. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted May 5, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 5, 2021 9 hours ago, melmerby said: wondered whether some cheap plastic kits might do the job. (e.g. Ratio) Not that cheap these days. There must be a super profit made from selling kits at these prices from tooling that has been amortised many years ago. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted May 5, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said: Not that cheap these days. There must be a super profit made from selling kits at these prices from tooling that has been amortised many years ago. An effect of general inflation that happens across the board. The basic tooling is effectively free, but everything else involved in production and distribution is at 2021 prices. Hornby are currently asking north of £200 for an air-smoothed Battle of Britain that's essentially the same thing that retailed at less than 40% of that when the tooling was new, twenty years ago. John Edited May 5, 2021 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 10 hours ago, PhilJ W said: Pity they don't do any undecorated. Yet! It is clear that they will produce further liveries in due course if these sell well, which seems likely given how well received they have been, especially compared to their competitor. If they perceive a demand for unliveried, that could be one for the future 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted May 5, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 5, 2021 16 hours ago, melmerby said: Surely it is the nicely applied liveries on a basically inaccurate coach that make these look so good? Why would you even consider repainting them? Yes, I agree. I'd want some coaches in the earlier Taff Vale Railway livery, (which I'm told ) is a halfway house between Great Western, and L&NWR. A lot of so-called 'generic' coaches were in fact, just that; generic. Badge engineering existed long before BMW started making knock-off copies of the Austin 7, only nowadays it's called 'shared platform*. * Shared platform. Citroen C1, Peugeot & Nissan/ Mazda all use the same basic mechanics & floorplan. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted May 5, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 5, 2021 30 minutes ago, tomparryharry said: A lot of so-called 'generic' coaches were in fact, just that; generic. Can you unpick that statement for me? These models are "generic" in the sense that they are not models of specific prototypes but incorporate typical features. A prototype carriage must of necessity be specific, not generic. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted May 5, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 5, 2021 Ha Ha! Yes, Stephen, my bad! A touch of crossed keys over here. If I can, I'll return and present a more detailed reasoning. Cheers, Ian. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 5, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said: Not that cheap these days. There must be a super profit made from selling kits at these prices from tooling that has been amortised many years ago. I believe they refurbished the tools a while back. The recent mouldings are better than some from say 20 years ago. IMHO available at less than £12 is a cheap kit. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venator Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 All I can say, rather selfishly I guess, is I'm glad Hattons are doing the SE&CR coaches instead of Hornby. I haven't seen either in the flesh but it does look like Hattons have gone that little bit further on quality. To my mind £36 a coach with lights in this day and age is good value given a traintech lighting strip is £20 alone. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted May 5, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 5, 2021 7 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said: Yet! It is clear that they will produce further liveries in due course if these sell well, which seems likely given how well received they have been, especially compared to their competitor. If they perceive a demand for unliveried, that could be one for the future The conundrum for Hatton's in doing some of these unliveried would be what set of roof and underframe details to use. I can't see it being viable to offer the full selection as per the finished coaches. In any case, the painted ones are so keenly priced that I doubt there'd be a significant cash saving. The only real advantage would therefore be reducing the preparatory work required before applying ones own paint. I think the only practicable solution will be to buy whatever livery comes with the specification you want, and go from there. John 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 5, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 5, 2021 9 hours ago, Dunsignalling said: An effect of general inflation that happens across the board. The basic tooling is effectively free, but everything else involved in production and distribution is at 2021 prices. Hornby are currently asking north of £200 for an air-smoothed Battle of Britain that's essentially the same thing that retailed at less than 40% of that when the tooling was new, twenty years ago. John And Bachmann are charging £22.95 for ex-Mainline wagons e.g. 33-300H 20T Toad How much was that?. It's called business, often the initial costs outweigh the early profits but later sales more than recoup that. However some items don't sell well and will end up overall loss makers. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted May 5, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, melmerby said: And Bachmann are charging £22.95 for ex-Mainline wagons e.g. 33-300H 20T Toad How much was that?. It's called business, often the initial costs outweigh the early profits but later sales more than recoup that. However some items don't sell well and will end up overall loss makers. Agreed, but it does seem a little bizarre that Hornby are asking fifty quid more for an old-tooling Light Pacific than for the new MN which has a much more sophisticated specification. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted May 5, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 5, 2021 The wheels on these Genesis coaches look wonderful. But I do wonder how well they are going to work with Code 100 Setrack pointwork. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted May 5, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said: The wheels on these Genesis coaches look wonderful. But I do wonder how well they are going to work with Code 100 Setrack pointwork. That's presumably what Sam runs them on for his reviews (unless he just uses a plain oval), and I think he'd have commented if they kept derailing. John Edited May 5, 2021 by Dunsignalling 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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