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'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement


Hattons Dave
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I thought Hornby's olive SR Maunsells were pretty good, and I recall Larry Goddard saying in these pages he'd be hard put to improve upon them. But that LMS finish is exceptional, proving that the factories back east are not resting on any laurels. 

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1 hour ago, Rowsley17D said:

Seeing that LMS 6-wheeler makes me wish I could go for full "Midland" livery for my LMS bogies.

You want the old Rivarossi coaches. They're ok if you don't mix them with other stock.

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2 hours ago, Jenny Emily said:

A couple more images showing the LMS and departmental ones. BDBF0D17-C16F-486B-BD9B-6BEC37341985.jpeg.e1764ea359499faea3d527de9ee488b4.jpegEFD345C1-967E-4D6D-85B7-EE1BDD522C38.jpeg.a667c9e1d79fe8cd3a0f60154db0b901.jpeg

 

I will be very interested to see if the GW lining has been amended. The standard is superb.

 

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Raises the bar, doesn't it?

 

I wonder if you're thinking what I'm thinking "crikey, I'll have to try to line out to that standard now!"

 

In my case a couple of clayton 6-wheelers for the MGN and then 2 bogie and 1 6-wheel clerestories for my portion of 'the Leicester'. Damn them for getting as far as Norfolk!

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Fortunately, I am only getting LNWR stock, so if the other stock from other companies is not up to standard, well the LNWR can just boast how good they are.  :D

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3 hours ago, ChrisN said:

Fortunately, I am only getting LNWR stock, so if the other stock from other companies is not up to standard, well the LNWR can just boast how good they are.  :D

I have modelled the LNWR for many years, building my own models from kits and painting/lining them, so  I shan't be buying any,

 

Firstly they don't look sufficiently like LNWR in terms of the panelling, underframes, etc. Secondly, the livery, although exceptionally well applied, doesn't match the LNWR coach "plum" as represented by the paints supplied by  the model trade, or match the preserved prototype carriages. Hence the Hatton's "generic" LNWR wouldn't match what I already have.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I have modelled the LNWR for many years, building my own models from kits and painting/lining them, so  I shan't be buying any,

 

Firstly they don't look sufficiently like LNWR in terms of the panelling, underframes, etc. Secondly, the livery, although exceptionally well applied, doesn't match the LNWR coach "plum" as represented by the paints supplied by  the model trade, or match the preserved prototype carriages. Hence the Hatton's "generic" LNWR wouldn't match what I already have.

 

Ah well, Jol, you have to remember that these models are not aimed at such experienced modeller of the LNWR as yourself. Rather, they are for the discerning LNWR modeller of the future who, having bought these for the sake of having something vaguely appropriate to run, will be inspired to acquire the techniques and skills to move on to a higher plane, with the many kits for authentic LNWR carriages that are available.

 

But it is a shame that neither Hattons or Hornby have got near LNWR carriage lake with this rather milk-chocolatey shade. 

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7 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Ah well, Jol, you have to remember that these models are not aimed at such experienced modeller of the LNWR as yourself. Rather, they are for the discerning LNWR modeller of the future who, having bought these for the sake of having something vaguely appropriate to run, will be inspired to acquire the techniques and skills to move on to a higher plane, with the many kits for authentic LNWR carriages that are available.

 

But it is a shame that neither Hattons or Hornby have got near LNWR carriage lake with this rather milk-chocolatey shade. 

Stephen,

 

I wish I could share such an optimistic view. Having assisted one of the major suppliers of LNWR (and other pre-group railway companies) 4mm kits including carriages, for over twenty five years and been a member of the LNWR Society (including as a Committee Member) for even longer, I don't beleive that the introduction of these (and Hornby's versions) will do very much at all to actually increase modelling of the pre-group  era. 

 

It is even possible that the superb finish of these  model liveries will put people off trying  to build and paint their own models. Add to that the need to build your own locos, as so few RTR pre-group locos are available, if you want any sort of reasonable representation of even a minor station or line and most modellers will probably feel the challenge too daunting.

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2 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Stephen,

 

I wish I could share such an optimistic view. Having assisted one of the major suppliers of LNWR (and other pre-group railway companies) 4mm kits including carriages, for over twenty five years and been a member of the LNWR Society (including as a Committee Member) for even longer, I don't beleive that the introduction of these (and Hornby's versions) will do very much at all to actually increase modelling of the pre-group  era. 

 

It is even possible that the superb finish of these  model liveries will put people off trying  to build and paint their own models. Add to that the need to build your own locos, as so few RTR pre-group locos are available, if you want any sort of reasonable representation of even a minor station or line and most modellers will probably feel the challenge too daunting.

 

I think to some extent it depends how you describe what you're seeing here ....

 

Half-empty-glass-008.jpg.559108987914b10cfe91f8f3f9d29f97.jpg

 

You may be right in terms of how some modellers will react to these. For some, the "they'll do" conclusion, especially in a loco-centric hobby, will disincline them to upgrade to accurate models, but, at least, such folk were unlikely to build more accurate models in any case; no loss but no gain to the corps of pre-Groupers.

 

Some may well be put off trying to match those standards. I'm intimidated, but will still try my incompetent best!

 

I think, though, the effect will be beneficial but in a more general and long-term way. It promotes earlier periods more generally and I do think will lead to a greater popularity. Hand in hand with that, manufacturers and retailers are learning that pre-Grouping does pay. Coaches are always a problem due to tooling costs, but the Rails 3D wagons and the relatively recent trend towards "in-dsvice" pre-Grouping loco liveries is, IMHO, noteworthy.  A lot has changed since I started lurking here c.2013.

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
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We have the disadvantage of seeing these coaches in images captured on a digital camera then loaded to a computer before we subsequently view them on our own computer screens so they go through three electronic versions of portraying the colour before we apply the use of our own colour judgement based on our eyesight.  So there is room for colour distortion which means the colour might be misrepresented in the imah ge we see with our own eyes.

 

but having said that and having owned an LNWR colour panel some years ago what I'm seeing on my computer screen doesn't match the colour that was on that panel.  as to enciouraging Pre-Gropup modelling I think it depends entirely on what you think of as Pre-Group modelling.   For what i understand as Jol's viewpoint vbased on what I've seen of his modelling then I wouldn't argue with his view one bit.  But from the point of view of providing a pretty little Pre-Group engine with something to pull on an 00 layout which has little or no trace of any hints of Pre-Group about it then I think they'll be a rip-roaring commercial success because they are pretty and they can go with equally pretty engines.

 

And they'll definitely be feed corn for some modellers of that era.

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2 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

t is even possible that the superb finish of these  model liveries will put people off trying  to build and paint their own models.

I doubt it’ll make any difference to that. If people want to be absolutely accurate then they will still learn the skills, these will just allow others to dabble in it for a bit of fun. It’s not detrimental and it might lead to more rtr locos therefore making it easier to jump in and actually model it. Personally I’m ok building stuff but hate lining and painting, I can do it I just find it incredibly tedious so it’s not fun and takes me ages, layouts and operation are my thing that’s all. I’ve always had a soft spot for LNWR locos so I’ve bought a few H ones and might get a few of these too just to run on my OO. I’ll save the effort in painting and lining for the ng models I build from scratch and kits ;) 

 

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As someone who builds his own exhibition layouts and upgrades as much as he is capable of I ask myself two questions.

 

Are any of these coaches suitable for my layout? - in this case yes, for the next one, probably a pair of teaks to go with a pair of Hornby teaks to add variety.  They will all get a light spray of muck on the roof to tone down the white, and a small amount of muck lower down for where the cleaners have missed.

 

Is there any chance I can make better myself? - not in a million years.

 

There are plenty of modellers of my standard around.....

 

Les

 

 

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15 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

It is even possible that the superb finish of these model liveries will put people off trying  to build and paint their own models.

Society generally seems obsessed with minimising effort at the moment and expecting everything on a plate. If riding a scooter is seen as a marvellous idea to save you the effort of walking, I doubt many people are going to be bothering to learn modelling skills anyway!

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1 hour ago, Hal Nail said:

 

Society generally seems obsessed with minimising effort at the moment and expecting everything on a plate. If riding a scooter is seen as a marvellous idea to save you the effort of walking, I doubt many people are going to be bothering to learn modelling skills anyway!

 

It has been ever thus- when I was small "modelling skills" included winding your own motors and building your own transformers from bare wires upwards- what each generation sees as modelling skills are not the same skill set that the next generation sees. 

 

Oddly enough as I get older the idea of using a pavement scooter for longer distances seems more attractive- but not while I can still cover the range of one of these machines on foot....

 

Les

 

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10 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

 

It has been ever thus- when I was small "modelling skills" included winding your own motors and building your own transformers from bare wires upwards- what each generation sees as modelling skills are not the same skill set that the next generation sees.

 

Les

 

Never did any motor winding or transformer building for modelling but I have done that for higher power devices.

I rewound the motor in a Wolf 350W electric drill and I also used to wind mains transformers to get the right secondary voltage for projects.

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1 hour ago, melmerby said:

Never did any motor winding or transformer building for modelling but I have done that for higher power devices.

I rewound the motor in a Wolf 350W electric drill and I also used to wind mains transformers to get the right secondary voltage for projects.

 

My father wound a transformer when we were given a 3-rail tinplate train set in  the fifties.  I remember the motor giving off a nasty smell after a while. I was only about 5 or 6 at the time so can't remember the make. It wasn't used after that and we reverted to clockwork.

 

Les

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4 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

It has been ever thus- when I was small "modelling skills" included winding your own motors and building your own transformers from bare wires upwards- what each generation sees as modelling skills are not the same skill set that the next generation sees. 

 

When I was small you had to wind up the motor if you wanted the train to go!

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On 07/06/2021 at 15:56, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

 

It is even possible that the superb finish of these  model liveries will put people off trying  to build and paint their own models. 

On the other hand, it may arouse interest in the LNWR and we may see an increase in the number of (ex-Ratio) Peco Parkside LNWR coach kits purchased and some may even get built and painted! Then they may progress on to brass kits and joining the LNWR society and before you know it you have the next generation of serious LNWR modellers pontificating on the livery rendition on the latest LNWResque RTR item.

Long may history repeat itself in our hobby!

 

Brian.

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I think some people on this forum overlook an important reason why so many people buy RTR models and accept whatever defects they have. The reason is time. Even if I had the skills to build lots of suitable and more authentic SE&CR stock I doubt I would have the time. I'm grateful that through their genesis range Hattons have given me some rolling stock other than the Bachmann birdcages to complement my SE&CR locos. Please dont reopen the livery application debate again!

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28 minutes ago, Venator said:

I think some people on this forum overlook an important reason why so many people buy RTR models and accept whatever defects they have. The reason is time. Even if I had the skills to build lots of suitable and more authentic SE&CR stock I doubt I would have the time. I'm grateful that through their genesis range Hattons have given me some rolling stock other than the Bachmann birdcages to complement my SE&CR locos. Please dont reopen the livery application debate again!

 

I would agree.  When I first retired I put about half of the pre-retirement working hours each week into making my first exhibition layout, Furtwangen Ost.  I got it onto the exhibition circuit as a "finished" item in 5 months.  I also found a lot more time to sleep, visit friends and get a social life again.

 

Even as a "winding down" teacher in the last year before retiring I was working most nights towards 10pm and putting in Saturday and Sunday hours- and teachers aren't renowned for working the longest hours.  A friend in management was commuting daily at that time from Newark to Chelmsford and his boss in Chelmsford was commuting from Abingdon or thereabouts- maybe a little extreme but the world of work means time to sit down and model isn't easily available to many until retirement.

 

Les

 

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1 hour ago, Venator said:

I think some people on this forum overlook an important reason why so many people buy RTR models and accept whatever defects they have. The reason is time. Even if I had the skills to build lots of suitable and more authentic SE&CR stock I doubt I would have the time. I'm grateful that through their genesis range Hattons have given me some rolling stock other than the Bachmann birdcages to complement my SE&CR locos. Please dont reopen the livery application debate again!

I’m spending a lot of time on my two layouts - where I am going for accuracy. The GC in the 50s and the L&B in the 30s (in fairness the latter is a plank set up rather than a full on layout before I sound greedy).

 

Then Rails announce a Precedent, one of my all-time favourites, I need something for it to pull while focused on getting the 50s and 30s right, and Hattons announce Genesis.

 

Frankly, I’m not bothered what the LNWR purists think* (not for a moment a criticism of their layouts), because I just want a quick solution for an LNWR ish train for one locomotive to pull while I concentrate my time and money on getting Northamptonshire in the 1950s as accurate as I can make it.

 

there’s (still) a whiff on this thread of criticism of the “lesser” modeller for taking short cuts, which seems to ignore the market of people without the time or money to do it properly, or indeed people spending their time and money doing something else properly…

 

*anymore than I worry that an LNWR modeller who happens to have a nice green J11 and wants some quick GC carriages to pull is queering my pitch. I think part of the issue is that what is being offered here is both flawed but in some ways better than even some of the better modellers are capable of (especially in terms of application) and so some people feel threatened.

 

Maybe I’ve got youth on my side at 40, but I’m enthusiastic about short cuts that help me, and see no conflict between those and the short cuts I won’t take where I want to be accurate.

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