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'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement


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Having watched Jenny's video, I reckon the only people who aren't going to be delighted with these coaches will be those who plumped for the Hornby ones without waiting to see what Hatton's could do.

 

And Hornby, of course.:devil::girldevil:

 

I'm struggling to resist the urge to pre-order another half-dozen....

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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I am glad to see several modellers citing time as the major constraint.

 

For me, that has been a limiting factor.  'Build your own' may be the ideal, but all too often it is not a practical solution where you lack the time to do so, which must include the time to acquire the skills to do so. 

 

As a result, I have very little finished and running.  My choice. An alternative choice is to compromise using the best fit RTR approximation and have something running. I don't think those choosing the latter option should feel judged. 

 

As Jenny's video shows, the quality, detail and finish of the Hattons coaches is superb and, IMHO, entirely predictably, significantly superior to the Hornby spoiler rivals. Every detail is superior on the Hattons, from gas lamp tops (with piping!) to the Mansell wheels. 

 

They are also very good representations of typical late Victorian coaching practice - prototype literate - as opposed to the educationally sub-normal Hornby versions.   

 

The video really does show these are quality models, whatever one thinks of the concept, and I think they will be the starting point for company-specific coach conversaions for the happy hackers, as well as beautiful OOB rakes for many modellers. At the price, they're cheap enough for bashing and bodging, and likely cheaper than a kit (if you kind find one) of your target prototype. Quite apart from other conversion ideas, I am seriously considering buying 6-wheelers just for the chassis!

 

Bravo Hattons!

 

 

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11 hours ago, Helmdon said:

I’m spending a lot of time on my two layouts - where I am going for accuracy. The GC in the 50s and the L&B in the 30s (in fairness the latter is a plank set up rather than a full on layout before I sound greedy).

 

 

there’s (still) a whiff on this thread of criticism of the “lesser” modeller for taking short cuts, which seems to ignore the market of people without the time or money to do it properly, or indeed people spending their time and money doing something else properly…

 

Maybe I’ve got youth on my side at 40, but I’m enthusiastic about short cuts that help me, and see no conflict between those and the short cuts I won’t take where I want to be accurate.

 

You are lucky at age 40 to have "a lot of time to spend". At 40 I had a full time teaching job, and a 10-year-old Mr Simon and 7-year old Mr-Simon's-sister, and to make ends meet my wife worked weekends so we shared the childcare.  Modelling was not quite nonexistent but was definitely on the back burner for at least another ten years.

 

I suspect the 40-year-old with time to do much modelling is a very rare person.  Our model railway club has three adults under 50 out of an adult membership of 30, plus 3 enthusiastic juniors we are very lucky to have.  

 

I hope that the Genesis coaches sell well to the time-stretched generation- they certainly deserve to.

 

Les

 

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6 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Quite apart from other conversion ideas, I am seriously considering buying 6-wheelers just for the chassis!

 

Bravo Hattons!

 

 

Preaching to the choir, there, Edwardian! :)

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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15 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

 

You are lucky at age 40 to have "a lot of time to spend". At 40 I had a full time teaching job, and a 10-year-old Mr Simon and 7-year old Mr-Simon's-sister, and to make ends meet my wife worked weekends so we shared the childcare.  Modelling was not quite nonexistent but was definitely on the back burner for at least another ten years.

 

'Lot' is a relative concept - I've got a seven month old, a full time job and childcare responsibilities. 

 

However, given that she just about sleeps through the night, and goes to bed at 1900, I'm trying to get ahead on the modelling now so that when she's more active I'm closer to just running trains.

 

I've also, because I knew exactly what I wanted to do, been buying the stock, track, etc piecemeal for over 10 years now and storing it straight into cupboards/under the bed (so I've got quite a large collection now but it didn't cost me anything like what it would if I'd not been so obsessive),  so that when the stars align, as they have, and I had the space I could get on with it.

 

Anyway, sitting next to a baby monitor and watching Midsomer Murders on ITV3 while making a Parkside 16T mineral wagon is therapy...

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12 hours ago, Helmdon said:

I’m spending a lot of time on my two layouts - where I am going for accuracy. The GC in the 50s and the L&B in the 30s (in fairness the latter is a plank set up rather than a full on layout before I sound greedy).

 

Then Rails announce a Precedent, one of my all-time favourites, I need something for it to pull while focused on getting the 50s and 30s right, and Hattons announce Genesis.

 

Frankly, I’m not bothered what the LNWR purists think* (not for a moment a criticism of their layouts), because I just want a quick solution for an LNWR ish train for one locomotive to pull while I concentrate my time and money on getting Northamptonshire in the 1950s as accurate as I can make it.

 

Exactly where I'm at. I'm lucky these days if I get even an evening a week for modelling. I don't have a permanent modelling set-up, so I have to get everything out and put everything away at the end of the session, so that's even less time.

 

My period/region is East London in the late 50s/early 60s, but I have a handful of pre-Grouping liveried locos for no other reason than I think they're pretty. I just want rolling stock that looks "about right" to my uneducated eye.  I don't want to spend what could amount to months on a low-priority project. In the long run, I'd like to swap the generic stock out for something more accurate, but I'm happy for my Terrier to pootle along with a set of not-quite-Stroudleys in the meantime.

 

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

Having watched Jenny's video, I reckon the only people who aren't going to be delighted with these coaches will be those who plumped for the Hornby ones without waiting to see what Hatton's could do.

 

And Hornby, of course.:devil::girldevil:

 

I'm struggling to resist the urge to pre-order another half-dozen....

 

John

I have a pair of Hornby 6-wheelers in BR livery to make up a (historically non-existent) workmen's train, and I'm planning to strengthen the rake with at least one Genesis in LNER brown. I want that mismatched look, to suggest that this train is not very highly regarded by the Powers that Be.

 

Indeed, I think the great strength of two ranges being available is that you can run coaches representing two different companies together and have them be visually more distinct than just the liveries. Ideal both for your shoestring light railway and your pre-Grouping main line.

 

30 minutes ago, Helmdon said:

'Lot' is a relative concept - I've got a seven month old, a full time job and childcare responsibilities. 

 

However, given that she just about sleeps through the night, and goes to bed at 1900

1900, eh? I can see why the Genesis coaches caught your eye.

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29 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Only problem I can see is I was planning some repaints to represent vehicles in military use. It now seems a shame to cover the excellent finish on these models with paint. 

 

Choose the LNWR-liveried ones. The more of those that are taken out of circulation the happier the more fastidious LNWR enthusiasts will be!

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55 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Only problem I can see is I was planning some repaints to represent vehicles in military use. It now seems a shame to cover the excellent finish on these models with paint. 

You could hold out for the Longmoor Military Railway ones and say they've been transferred? Or the NCB ones are relatively plain.

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31 minutes ago, HonestTom said:

You could hold out for the Longmoor Military Railway ones and say they've been transferred? Or the NCB ones are relatively plain.

Not sure what livery they will be in. Might be army green which would be ideal, just maybe change the numbers, or the nice blue which would be more specific. I would like a few of each to go with my small collection of other military stock.

Ray

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15 hours ago, Venator said:

I think some people on this forum overlook an important reason why so many people buy RTR models and accept whatever defects they have. The reason is time. Even if I had the skills to build lots of suitable and more authentic SE&CR stock I doubt I would have the time. I'm grateful that through their genesis range Hattons have given me some rolling stock other than the Bachmann birdcages to complement my SE&CR locos. Please dont reopen the livery application debate again!

Exactly - time is limited for many of us - that's why I've been working on my current layout for 6 months already but haven't even built the baseboards yet. I'd have liked to model earlier periods, but having to build, paint and line all the stock and locos I'd need just isn't a practical proposition - wheras it's very tempting to get a short rake of these and a Terrier as a starting point, to add to later when I do have more time. 

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Couldn't resist . Ordered an LMS set with lights .

 

They look great models . That livery is fantastic . And part of me was happy to order from Hattons after their abominable treatment from Hornby . 

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11 hours ago, Helmdon said:

'Lot' is a relative concept - I've got a seven month old, a full time job and childcare responsibilities. 

 

However, given that she just about sleeps through the night, and goes to bed at 1900, I'm trying to get ahead on the modelling now so that when she's more active I'm closer to just running trains.

 

Anyway, sitting next to a baby monitor and watching Midsomer Murders on ITV3 while making a Parkside 16T mineral wagon is therapy...

 

There are very many who find 19.00 is well before the end of work time.  Commuters are still arriving in Newark (or were until Covid) at 8pm and 9pm, having set off at 6am and 7am.  I've been kicked out of remote marking at midnight when the system closed for the night, fortunately after Mr S and his sister had fled the nest...

 

As I said, modelling time is something not always easy to find.

 

Les

 

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25 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

 

There are very many who find 19.00 is well before the end of work time.  Commuters are still arriving in Newark (or were until Covid) at 8pm and 9pm, having set off at 6am and 7am.  I've been kicked out of remote marking at midnight when the system closed for the night, fortunately after Mr S and his sister had fled the nest...

 

As I said, modelling time is something not always easy to find.

 

Les

 

Is this a competition?

 

did I ever say there weren’t?

 

I’m really struggling with the idea that my 70 hour weeks plus hours at the weekend for the last 15 years are odd just because I choose to get up at 0500 and go to bed at midnight and spend what spare time I do have modelling rather than in the gym, or watching football.

 

I’m sorry but I do feel rather under attack by you for somehow failing as a parent or a commuter. I *make* the time because it’s important to me - and if that involves modelling on the train, or in hotel rooms (pre-pandemic at least 1-2 nights per week) then that’s what I do. 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Helmdon said:

 

 I *make* the time because it’s important to me - and if that involves modelling on the train, or in hotel rooms (pre-pandemic at least 1-2 nights per week) then that’s what I do. 

 

 

You are in good company.

Rod Stewart also does railway modelling in hotel rooms when he is on tour.

 

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1 hour ago, Helmdon said:

Is this a competition?

 

did I ever say there weren’t?

 

I’m really struggling with the idea that my 70 hour weeks plus hours at the weekend for the last 15 years are odd just because I choose to get up at 0500 and go to bed at midnight and spend what spare time I do have modelling rather than in the gym, or watching football.

 

I’m sorry but I do feel rather under attack by you for somehow failing as a parent or a commuter. I *make* the time because it’s important to me - and if that involves modelling on the train, or in hotel rooms (pre-pandemic at least 1-2 nights per week) then that’s what I do. 

 

 

 

Sorry if you feel under attack- the point was intended to be the opposite- as someone working long hours who will make time to model you are very rare.  Evidence- look at the ages of those behind layouts and working as stewards at shows.  A few years ago we had a new member join our club who lowered the average age.  He was 62.

 

Railway modelling isn't the only hobby suffering- amateur dramatic and operatic companies and choirs were closing at a steady rate (before covid) due to members getting too old to continue and no supply of twenty to fifty year olds to replace them.  The tendency is for youngsters to be active members up to the point at which they start work, after which most can't get time off for rehearsal and as for guaranteeing to be available for show week or a big concert.......  One of the most successful amateur companies at the Gilbert and Sullivan Festival is called Bus Pass Opera, for obvious reasons.

 

If you are on here, working full-time, and making models you are a star.  However not all stars are the same, and others do their fireside modelling by making buildings or painting and weathering.  

 

Les

 

Edited by Les1952
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On 12/05/2021 at 19:13, Ravenser said:

A lot of light railways do seem to have run varnished teak coaches - although by their latter days the varnished part of the description might have been questionable 

 

Put another way, the varnish had vanished...

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My five penn'orth on the scratch build skills vs time question is that people 'do' railway modelling for different reasons, and there are those for whom the main point of the hobby is to build accurate models from scratch and perhaps to paint them to perfectly represent complex lining schemes, but have no interest in running them on layouts.  Others are mroe concerned with operational accuracy and running the trains, and are happy if the models are to scale and reasonably well detailed and finished, and run well in order to acquire sufficient stock to run their timetables.  And there are an almost infinite variety of approaches that fall between these stools, all of which are fine so long as the main purpose of the hobby, to provide enjoyment to the hobbyist, is served.

 

Most of us have to compromise in order to achieve the results we want in a reasonable amount of time, and as one gets older, one realises that, without being unduly morbid, time is running out!  I am pushing 70 and, assuming my health, eyesight, steadyness of hand and wits manage to hold out (and they are all perceptably deteriorating), am probably good for another 20 years tops, so despite being retired and not short of free time to devote to my trains, I would be ill-advised to embark on any major project.  In the event I started my BLT 6 years ago and got it to a state of reasonable finishedness and fully operating about 3 and half years ago.  There is plenty of operational interest, and while the period of stock acquistion (RTR and kits) is coming to a close I have plenty to keep my interest both in operating trains and in building models for the 20 years at least; paradoxically, this frees me to undertake time consuming projects now that the donkey work is done.

 

I never use RTR items straight out of the box; all are at least given a basic washover of weathering to tone them down and many have had additional detail added or been altered to represent something else entirely.  Scenery and buildings are still a work in progress, and will be for many years yet.  A good layout is of course never finished, but I have achieved my aim; good running of reasonably detailed and scale stock on a plausible track layout against a backdrop of what I hope is plausible scenery and buildings to evoke the area and period that I model.  This is what the original intention was when I started what I suspected would be last layout, and the layout has repaid the effort I put into it many times over (and should continue to do so).

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My attitude is atm as an under 30, who has several hobbies on the go, is to get the heavier ground work done so that if/when we are alittle more limited by family life i can quietly work away in the evenings. These coaches will happily work with my southern and GWR engines for a fun train which isn't as long as if made from birdcages.

 

@Les1952I keep missing Buss pass Opera but do enjoy the annual festival. Charles Court are worth a watch as they have a show based around a train ride for this years festival alongside their Iolanthe.   

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One of the great things about railway modelling is it is such a flexible hobby and you can put in as much or as little as you desire. It's your layout you can do what you want with it and unless you make a claim to be absolutely strictly modelling a particular period or location you can mix and match as you feel. I have no problem at all with modellers who can and want to build their own stock, buildings etc but dont view our hobby as a competition.

 

That classic line of "make time" used to make my blood boil when I worked on the railways. It was usually said by managers who had assistants and secretaries! Personally I find doing work on the layout or building something requires a good deal of concentration so often after a long day my faculties cant cope with much more than operating trains and even then if there's a derailment..........

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I might also add that, I increasingly find that any time left at the end of the day finds me rather too jaded to embark upon any but the simplest tasks, and building rolling stock kits, is not, for me, among the simplest of tasks!

 

Whether you view the Hattons coaches as a RTR solution OOB, or as a modeller's resource, or, indeed, as both, I think these coaches have a lot to offer. 

 

I hope and expect Hattons will be rewarded with strong sales. They deserve to for producing these.

 

And, BTW, this release fully justifies the policy of retailer commissions and shows how they are enriching our hobby.     

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7 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

And, BTW, this release fully justifies the policy of retailer commissions and shows how they are enriching our hobby.     

I would also suggest that it shows Mr Hattons that there's a market for doing more of it, which given the hole in the sales of Hornby stuff...

 

(obviously I know the limited edition loco commission is long proven, but this is punting out £30 stuff in volume - and crucially, from what I can see here, to a higher standard for about the same price than one of the main 'manufacturers')

 

Edited by Helmdon
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Whilst these coaches might not stimulate an immediate upturn in authentic modelling of pre-group railways, it's likely they will attract people who would like to, but currently lack the time and/or have yet to acquire the necessary skills.

 

In my younger days, I went in for a good deal of what I euphemistically call "plausible substitution", the level of plausibility being variable, to put it politely!

 

Nearly all of that material got replaced with better or further adapted to become more plausible over the years. I can easily imagine the Hatton's Genesis range fulfilling similar needs as modellers' aims and abilities develop.

 

John       

Edited by Dunsignalling
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Theres a danger of overthinking this 

 

Obviously there are modelers who only model pregrouping . Starved of rtr, out of necessity they have to scratch build or build kits . They can therefore make specific items they need . These generic coaches are unlikely to appeal to them . Who they will appeal to is folks that have been buying pregrouping locos because they look nice  and now have something to run them with . With me , I have an LMS red precedent on order from Rails and wanted something nice to run with them . The LMS livery on these coaches looks stunning , so that's why I ordered .   

 

I'll bet there are a lot of people in a similar position , have bought SE&CR D class , C class , is it the H class, P class, Terriers , Precedents and Caley 812s that just want something to run with them 

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