'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[johnd]

Delivery time seems to have gone very quite. Has anybody any knowledge as to when the first to be released batch will be available, all at the same time or livery dependant ?

[AMJ]

The spec on Hattons says 

Quote

Lit versions feature an 18-pin decoder socket

Therefore your fave decoder will suffice for controlling when on DCC.  Suggest checking the features of available chips as some have a flicker that will be suitable for the lighting and also can adjust the brightness as well.  If not fitting a chip lights will be on when there is track power.

[Jon Harbour]

Any suggestions for cheap Next18 decoders? Is there a function only Next18 decoder?

[AMJ]

@Jon Harbour a quick look at an online auction site shows Lais N18 chips at about £11 - the manual seems to have enough control on the outputs that could suffice for controlling the lights.  Seems to be about half the price of other N18 chips.  Not used any but at that price will be worth a try.

[Jon Harbour]

3 minutes ago, AMJ said:

@Jon Harbour a quick look at an online auction site shows Lais N18 chips at about £11 - the manual seems to have enough control on the outputs that could suffice for controlling the lights.  Seems to be about half the price of other N18 chips.  Not used any but at that price will be worth a try.

 

Yeah at that price worth a punt. I might look on-line at what I can find too as I live in Australia and we lose the 20% VAT on items bought from the UK... That may well give an option.... I've ordered six GWR coaches and was baulking at the thought of six * £30 decoders for them! I'm primarily planning to use the brake coaches on meat / fish van trains and milk tankers... Not all that prototypical I know, but normal brake vans weren't used on these type of trains.

[James Harrison]

In light of Sonic Models announcement earlier today of a Great Central passenger tank, are you (Hattons) considering a later Great Central set?  The GC livery in Batch 2 was replaced in 1903, and the only RTR loco that will match is Bachmann's limited edition collector's club 9J from a few years ago (production run 500 if I remember right).  IMHO going for the 1903-08(ish) cream and brown, or better yet the post-1908 teak, would be a better match for available GC locos. 

[Guest Jack Benson]

On 09/08/2021 at 14:28, johnd said:

Delivery time seems to have gone very quite. Has anybody any knowledge as to when the first to be released batch will be available, all at the same time or livery dependant ?

Currently waiting for an answer from Widnes on this question and will post their response.

 

StaySafe

[Guest Jack Benson]

15 hours ago, Jack Benson said:

Currently waiting for an answer from Widnes on this question and will post their response.

 

StaySafe

Just spoken to Tom in Widnes, these are not expected until (maybe) October. 

 

StaySafe

[Butler Henderson]

Curious to see how they are wired; it to be possible using appropriate connections or conductive couplings to work more than one coach off a decoder.

[Forward!]

22 hours ago, James Harrison said:

In light of Sonic Models announcement earlier today of a Great Central passenger tank, are you (Hattons) considering a later Great Central set?  The GC livery in Batch 2 was replaced in 1903, and the only RTR loco that will match is Bachmann's limited edition collector's club 9J from a few years ago (production run 500 if I remember right).  IMHO going for the 1903-08(ish) cream and brown, or better yet the post-1908 teak, would be a better match for available GC locos. 

 

I agree that a GCR "teak" would have been a more versatile choice, but it's a moot point regarding the GCR 9N. They were built for heavy suburban trains out of Marylebone. By the time they came along the 4-carriage suburban sets were made up of 50ft panelled bogie carriages, or after about 1911, the newer matchboarded bogie non-corridor sets.

 

If you wanted a generic train to run behind the 9N, you'd be better off with a rake of Triang's with the clerestories lopped off!

 

Will

[gr.king]

Or Triang clerestories far more thoroughly chopped and shaped, if you want to count yourself a modeller rather than just a buyer. They do turn into quite good representations of the GC Edwardian, panelled, suburbans, if you do the work, with care.

[Forward!]

5 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Or Triang clerestories far more thoroughly chopped and shaped, if you want to count yourself a modeller rather than just a buyer. They do turn into quite good representations of the GC Edwardian, panelled, suburbans, if you do the work, with care.

 

Sorry, I was being rather jocular. I've done the "full monty" on these too, as I suspect, has pretty much everyone modelling GCR since Peter Denny's time! I wonder how long it will be before some innovative chap comes along and gives the Hattons carriages similar treatment. They're eminently affordable for a bit of old-fashioned cutting and shutting.

[Jon Harbour]

12 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Curious to see how they are wired; it to be possible using appropriate connections or conductive couplings to work more than one coach off a decoder.

I asked Hattons about this and I understand each coach needs a separate decoder, since they use standard NEM coupling pockets.

[JohnR]

18 hours ago, Forward! said:

If you wanted a generic train to run behind the 9N, you'd be better off with a rake of Triang's with the clerestories lopped off!

 

Will

 

Still think the obvious next step is some generic pre-group style "short" bogie stock. 

[HonestTom]

22 hours ago, Forward! said:

 

Sorry, I was being rather jocular. I've done the "full monty" on these too, as I suspect, has pretty much everyone modelling GCR since Peter Denny's time! I wonder how long it will be before some innovative chap comes along and gives the Hattons carriages similar treatment. They're eminently affordable for a bit of old-fashioned cutting and shutting.

Indeed. I've been doing some work on the Hornby generics because they're so very affordable and now my appetite is whetted, I'm looking forward to the Hattons ones giving me a whole new lot of raw material to play with.

 

[Butler Henderson]

11 hours ago, Jon Harbour said:

I asked Hattons about this and I understand each coach needs a separate decoder, since they use standard NEM coupling pockets.

There are ways around that; conductive coupler's exist that use normal NEM pockets or separate connectors

[MarkSG]

10 hours ago, JohnR said:

 

Still think the obvious next step is some generic pre-group style "short" bogie stock. 

 

Or even some non-generic short bogie stock, since a lot of that did last a lot longer than the four and six wheelers.

 

For that matter, we are, surely, long overdue a set of clerestories to contemporary standards.

[No Decorum]

9 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

 

Or even some non-generic short bogie stock, since a lot of that did last a lot longer than the four and six wheelers.

 

For that matter, we are, surely, long overdue a set of clerestories to contemporary standards.

Non-generic. Absolutely!

[Joseph the L&YR lover]

6 hours ago, MarkSG said:

 

Or even some non-generic short bogie stock, since a lot of that did last a lot longer than the four and six wheelers.

 

For that matter, we are, surely, long overdue a set of clerestories to contemporary standards.

think the concept of generic bogie stock has come up a lot so i kinda expect that to happen within the next 10 years?

[Northroader]

I think getting a generic bogie coach would create more problems from the variations encountered than has happened with the four and six wheelers.

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Northroader said:

I think getting a generic bogie coach would create more problems from the variations encountered than has happened with the four and six wheelers.

Length-wise, four and six wheelers seemed to be of a few common lengths, but the question that would arise with a generic range of short bogie stock is simply, how short is short....

 

Different companies had their own preferred sizes, at different times, ranging between roughly 40' and 50', in 2' increments, so many of the possible choices might involve much more noticeable compromises.

 

However, taking my preferred LSWR as an example, they built stock on 44', 46' and 48' frames at various times. I don't know enough about stock of other railways to be sure but I'd guess a lot of them did likewise. It therefore might be possible to pick vehicles from a number of different railways that shared a common length or were acceptably close; say, for the sake of argument, within a foot of it.

 

If it turned out that (say) 45' turned out to be especially common across the board, I'd be willing to accept "averaged out" representations of LSWR 44' and 46' prototypes. The obvious choice of bogie would be the Fox's patent design which was prototypically generic (with minor variations to step-boards etc) across much of the pre-grouping railway industry.

 

The probable alternative is either nothing or a very limited range of coaches, drawn from one or two companies, that might look rather less like LSWR prototypes than any generic models would.  

 

For me, the benefits of a carefully considered range of generic coaches incorporating sufficient variation (i.e. the Hatton's approach rather than that taken by Hornby) will be:

 

1. We actually get something for a decent number of companies, rather than nothing for any.

 

2. The models we do get will all be "a bit out", (and opinion inevitably varies as to how much is acceptable), but should not be "wildly wrong" for anyone. 

 

John

Edited August 14, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[The Johnster]

A generic non-gangwayed panelled bogie coach could be viable, but I don’t really know as I’m not knowledgeable about hoe to design, produce, and market RTR models, or anything rlse for that matter.  The long running success and recent re- introduction of the Triang shorty GW clerestories suggests something like it might be a flyer, though.  
 

How about a generic underframe and basic body, in brake third, third, and composite versions, with separate roof so that different profiles and clerestory could be accommodated, and a few types of bogies.   This ‘mix’n’match’ approach would enable passable ‘layout’ coaches to be provided in a number of suitable liveries that would satisfy most customers, and it is my view that those for whom such a standard is not good enough are probably modellers capable of scratchbuilding dead scale models to their own satisfaction.  I will never be as good a modeller as Peter Denny, and Triang shorties were good enough for him!
 

A browse through Shapeways’ website will reveal that some such bodyshell prints are already available, though 3D tends to be costly and needs competion, which not everybody will be comfortable with, and Shapeways’ interpretation of the new Brexit VAT rules and insistence on using a particularly expensive, slow, and IMHO incompetent delivery service makes matters worse. 

 

Have to say that I think Hornby are missing a trick with the shorties; interiors, new underframe, alternative roofs and bogies, and buffers and other fittings and they have the basis of my above concept.  Make ‘em the right length and put me down for a few, perhaps to go with an upgraded new tooling for the 2721…

[JohnR]

7 hours ago, Northroader said:

I think getting a generic bogie coach would create more problems from the variations encountered than has happened with the four and six wheelers.

 

And yet the 4/6 wheelers have proved extremely popular. The Hornby ones are more problematic, yet they too have sold well. 

 

The Hornby (Triang) clerestories have filled this role for at least 50 years, and something a bit betterfor today would be really good.

[Michael Hodgson]

7 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Length-wise, four and six wheelers seemed to be of a few common lengths, but the question that would arise with a generic range of short bogie stock is simply, how short is short....

 

I think it was Walthers who produced a very short bogie coach in HO three of four decades ago.  It had a clerestory roof and a President Lincoln type balcony at one end for haranguing the electors and it was so short it sat very neatly on a single 6-wheel bogie.  Would that be short enough for you?

[Colin_McLeod]

On 14/08/2021 at 14:28, The Johnster said:

 I will never be as good a modeller as Peter Denny, and Triang shorties were good enough for him!

 

Agree 100%.  This statement neatly puts into context the ever increasing demand for 100% accuracy in RTR models as an (expensive) alternative to either a bit or modelling, or a bit of flexibility in what one will accept from the manufacturer.