RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 7, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said: The LNWR carriage lake (plum) chosen by both Hatton's and Hornby also seems rather wide of the mark, compared to that found on several preserved coaches (including the Picnic Saloon that was restored at Quainton) as well as that available from PPP. I'm not sure one can judge the Hattons colour until it has been seen in the flesh. But since the panelling style is inappropriate for LNWR carriages, should one fret over a little matter of colour? (Without wishing to re-open the debate any more than does @wainwright1, the same could be said for the SECR-liveried carriages.) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venator Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 3 hours ago, wainwright1 said: Without re-opening the previous debate, Hattons do seem determined to produce the SE & CR coaches in an inappropriate colour. I have not ordered any. All the best Ray Inappropriate according to the Bluebell Railway which is not an infallible magisterium on shades of colour. Not inappropriate according to the K&ESR application. Whatever you choose some will be unhappy. I have ordered all of the SE&CR liveried coaches. 3 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronny Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 22 hours ago, Venator said: Inappropriate according to the Bluebell Railway which is not an infallible magisterium on shades of colour. Not inappropriate according to the K&ESR application. Whatever you choose some will be unhappy. I have ordered all of the SE&CR liveried coaches. You didn't leave any for the rest of us? Booo. 1 17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 8, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2022 Seeing as from when they were new and many years afterwards these coaches were hand painted there would be slight variations in the shade of colour. Then add in the effects of age and weathering there would be even more variations. The coach painters of the time couldn't pop down to B&Q with a colour sample and have an exact match made up. The colours came in a solid cake that had to be crushed (and sometimes mixed to get the right shade) and then linseed oil added before it was hand brushed on. Then when the painting was finished there was the several coats of varnish over the top that would also affect the colour. Several coats of paint and varnish were applied to the surface. 6 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Jackson Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 I'm in. I ordered a set of Lancashire and Yorkshire coaches. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drt7uk Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) I'm still in and will keep my Hattons order for 7 of their LNWR coaches. However impatience got the better of me so I also ordered Hornby's 5 LNWR coaches which arrived the other day and look great (FWIW, the plum colour looks all right to my eye, it's not as saturated as in Hornby's stock photos). I don't have anything else on preorder this year apart from the Rails/Sonic GCR tank so can just about justify it! Looking forward to the Hattons carriages, the quality looks very good. Edited January 18, 2022 by drt7uk 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venator Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 11 hours ago, drt7uk said: I'm still in and will keep my Hattons order for 7 of their LNWR coaches. However impatience got the better of me so I also ordered Hornby's 5 LNWR coaches which arrived the other day and look great (FWIW, the plum colour looks all right to my eye, it's not as saturated as in Hornby's stock photos). I don't have anything else on preorder this year apart from the Rails/Sonic GCR tank so can just about justify it! Looking forward to the Hattons carriages, the quality looks very good. I was tempted by some of Hornby's SR liveried coaches but on principle I decided not to buy them and stick with Hattons. I really don't like this tactic of Hornby of releasing products simply to ruin their competitors. Of course I'm sure it happens occasionally that genuinely two or more manufacturers decide to do the same model, but Hornby seem to be going out of their way to release competing products which I'm sure they wouldn't have otherwise released. I used to really like Hornby as a company but things like the 4wheel coaches and the Titfield Thunderbolt saga have dented my view of them. 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 10 minutes ago, Venator said: I was tempted by some of Hornby's SR liveried coaches but on principle I decided not to buy them and stick with Hattons. I really don't like this tactic of Hornby of releasing products simply to ruin their competitors. Of course I'm sure it happens occasionally that genuinely two or more manufacturers decide to do the same model, but Hornby seem to be going out of their way to release competing products which I'm sure they wouldn't have otherwise released. I used to really like Hornby as a company but things like the 4wheel coaches and the Titfield Thunderbolt saga have dented my view of them. It's a little different to Titfield where there is a copyright infringement allegedly. The Hornby SR livery coaches are not really generic, they are actually a very good representation of LBCSR Stroudley 4 and 6 wheel coaches in a variety of liveries - so in an SR livery they are more prototypical than the Hattons version. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 18, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 minute ago, woodenhead said: The Hornby SR livery coaches are not really generic, they are actually a very good representation of LBCSR Stroudley 4 and 6 wheel coaches in a variety of liveries - so in an SR livery they are more prototypical than the Hattons version. You flatter them calling them "a very good representation". Anyway, how prototypical are Stroudley carriages in Southern livery? (Bearing in mind that any survivors at grouping would be at least a third of a century old.) Sorry, not really a question for this thread but it shouldn't be allowed to pass. Hornby is capable of excellent models that are excellent representations of the prototype, but these aren't they, I'm afraid. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 @Compound2632 I was just making the point the Hornby models are a closer representation of what could run on SR metals than the Hattons version, that's all. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 18, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) 33 minutes ago, woodenhead said: @Compound2632 I was just making the point the Hornby models are a closer representation of what could run on SR metals than the Hattons version, that's all. A point I will contest: some of the Hattons carriages are close to Billinton LB&SCR carriages, which, being built in the 1890s, might be better candidates for survival into Southern livery. But sorry, not really for this thread. Yes, for this thread! I had been confused as to where I was by the mention of Titfield. Edited January 18, 2022 by Compound2632 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 18, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2022 I thought that they were intended to represent the Stroudley LBSC coaches but when Hattons announced their generic stock they decided to jump on the bandwagon and changed them. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 18, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2022 12 minutes ago, PhilJ W said: I thought that they were intended to represent the Stroudley LBSC coaches but when Hattons announced their generic stock they decided to jump on the bandwagon and changed them. The points on which they disappoint as representations of the Stroudley carriages have been well-rehearsed on the relevant thread. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Wish I hadn't said anything now. I only brought this up because it seems daft to boycott an option simply because it is a Hornby product. 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 18, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2022 Hornby produce some excellent products and I do not intend to deprive myself of them just because I disapprove of some of their business practices. 1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 18, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2022 48 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: The points on which they disappoint as representations of the Stroudley carriages have been well-rehearsed on the relevant thread. But Hornby would argue they are not (nor advertised specifically as) 'representations of Stroudley coaches'! While many on here have said that it looks like Hornby had some sort of Stroudley coach project on the go which they subverted as a response to the Hattons product - there has been no real evidence to say that defiantly conceived as Stroudley coaches. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 18, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, woodenhead said: Wish I hadn't said anything now. I only brought this up because it seems daft to boycott an option simply because it is a Hornby product. How about 'boycoting' them because they have air brake fittings rather than vacuum and deucedly odd footboards that are far too low to be of any use. They are in many ways decidedly inferior to the Hattons range... Edited January 18, 2022 by phil-b259 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 18, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2022 A squabble about something that doesnt yet exist, of a model that never existed at all. I thought only sci-fi fans did that ? 2 2 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, adb968008 said: A squabble about something that doesnt yet exist, of a model that never existed at all. I thought only sci-fi fans did that ? And apparently modellers...like I said, wish I hadn't said anything it only starts another fire. 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 hour ago, woodenhead said: And apparently modellers...like I said, wish I hadn't said anything it only starts another fire. They look quite tasteful when compared to the steampunk range! 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 18, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2022 2 hours ago, woodenhead said: And apparently modellers...like I said, wish I hadn't said anything it only starts another fire. Fires always burn out, usually by the end of the page. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 18, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2022 2 hours ago, adb968008 said: A squabble about something that doesnt yet exist, of a model that never existed at all. I thought only sci-fi fans did that ? They have the benefit of time travel............ 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2E Sub Shed Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 39 minutes ago, melmerby said: They have the benefit of time travel............ And alternate universes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 18, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, 2E Sub Shed said: And alternate universes. As in, only visiting every other one? 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 From notes read elsewhere and repeated earlier in this thread the SECR 4 wheel 3rd Hattons are going is a good representation of a SECR 4 wheel 2nd and the LBSCR 6 wheel composite lavatory is a good similarity to a LBSCR vehicle albeit wrongly numbered by Hattons. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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