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'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement


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On 26/02/2021 at 17:58, Skinnylinny said:

These look lovely, with lovely filigree lining, but shouldn't the centre lavatory have frosted windows?

 

 

These are only samples and not guaranteed to be the same as the final version.  Hattons Dave will have picked up on the comment....

 

Les

 

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On 26/02/2021 at 13:16, RichardLong said:


Pretty sure I’ve read that - based on the photographic evidence - they didn’t always have the right loco matched up with the right coaches!

 

Incidentally, the FYN’s Terrier was a bit of an oddity as it had a Drummond boiler (fitted when it was owned by the LSWR).  I’m not sure either Hornby or Rails would have the tooling to accurately represent that?

I believe the Manning Wardle was dual-braked, so could work with either set. The Terrier was vacuum-only, so could only legally work with the vacuum set. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if the opposite happened though...

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On 26/02/2021 at 15:09, RichardLong said:


It was originally leased from the LSWR and apparently ran in full LSWR livery - with no changes to number or lettering -  for several years.  Most sources seem to agree that it was repainted in a new “bright green” livery with black & white lining and FYN lettering circa 1916.

According to Bradley 734 arrived on hire 25 June 1913, and was eventually purchased less than two years later, in February 1915. Apparently then painted apple green with dark green bands and yellow lining. 

The Manning Wardle was dual fitted, so could haul both types of rolling stock, when required, the Terrier being confined to the ex-MSLR coaches until the Southern added the longer bunker and changed the brakes back to Westinghouse in 1924, the ex-MSLR coaches being similarly converted at the same time, running for another seven years as a set on the Freshwater line.

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Quite possibly the photography/lighting, but I feel the droplight and bolection colour for the GWR samples is far too red (like Hornby's!). Here are a few suggestions for 'indian red/mahogany':

 

indian-red.png.f0e86d2c3138a9ae8d06e9bd64b07a06.png

(rgb: r129, g32, b16)

 

 

indian-red-2.jpg.167103bbf8019154304c8ec96223f52f.jpg

(rgb: r150, g53, b37)

 

edit:  the following addition is the colour used in the livery page of Penrhos Junction coaches:

 

indian-red-penrhos.png.871ff5723eb1a80a1a0d3f61d5e5c178.png

(rgb: r102, g0, b0)

 

Variations in the 'indian red/mahogany' shade were normal. Originally, droplights were real mahogany, varnished. The colour of real mahogany varies considerably, depending on species. Later, when real mahogany became scarce, a non-mahogany wood was used (oak or teak, I guess) which was painted.

 

Edited by Miss Prism
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On 03/03/2021 at 16:57, Miss Prism said:

Quite possibly the photography/lighting, but I feel the droplight and bolection colour for the GWR samples is far too red (like Hornby's!). Here are a few suggestions for 'indian red/mahogany':

 

indian-red.png.f0e86d2c3138a9ae8d06e9bd64b07a06.png

(rgb: r129, g32, b16)

 

 

indian-red-2.jpg.167103bbf8019154304c8ec96223f52f.jpg

(rgb: r150, g53, b37)

 

edit:  the following addition is the colour used in the livery page of Penrhos Junction coaches:

 

indian-red-penrhos.png.871ff5723eb1a80a1a0d3f61d5e5c178.png

(rgb: r102, g0, b0)

 

Variations in the 'indian red/mahogany' shade were normal. Originally, droplights were real mahogany, varnished. The colour of real mahogany varies considerably, depending on species. Later, when real mahogany became scarce, a non-mahogany wood was used (oak or teak, I guess) which was painted.

 

I’d personally prefer the darker shade.

This isn’t because of any knowledge of the correct shade. 

But my thought was  that at least in the early days when they went away from varnished mahogany they would go for a  shade that to most resembled real aged mahogany than something freshly prepared.

 

Maybe later changing to a redder shade of paint when the link with real mahogany had gone?

Edited by rprodgers
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Apologises if this has been mentioned before re the 4 wheel brake is the arrangement of the guards duckets at the very rear windows at the very rear of the coach unique  just to the LBSC railway or did any other companies have this arrangement?

 

I have ordered a number of sets (different companies) and am wondering if I should re-order some coaches singularly 

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Just now, rprodgers said:

Apologises if this has been mentioned before re the 4 wheel brake is the arrangement of the guards duckets at the very rear windows at the very rear of the coach unique  just to the LBSC railway or did any other companies have this arrangement?

 

Whilst characteristic of the LB&SCR, it's by no means unusual; LNWR 4-wheel brake thirds spring to mind. Of the liveries offered in batches 1 and 2, the only one I'd say categorically not is the Midland livery, since Midland arc-roof carriages of the 1880s-90s didn't have duckets at all, except for the 4-wheel passenger brake vans (i.e. without passenger accommodation). The Great Western had some 4-wheelers with the duckets at the very end but these didn't have the large windows in the end.

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On 03/03/2021 at 16:57, Miss Prism said:

Quite possibly the photography/lighting, but I feel the droplight and bolection colour for the GWR samples is far too red (like Hornby's!). Here are a few suggestions for 'indian red/mahogany':

 

indian-red.png.f0e86d2c3138a9ae8d06e9bd64b07a06.png

(rgb: r129, g32, b16)

 

 

indian-red-2.jpg.167103bbf8019154304c8ec96223f52f.jpg

(rgb: r150, g53, b37)

 

edit:  the following addition is the colour used in the livery page of Penrhos Junction coaches:

 

indian-red-penrhos.png.871ff5723eb1a80a1a0d3f61d5e5c178.png

(rgb: r102, g0, b0)

 

Variations in the 'indian red/mahogany' shade were normal. Originally, droplights were real mahogany, varnished. The colour of real mahogany varies considerably, depending on species. Later, when real mahogany became scarce, a non-mahogany wood was used (oak or teak, I guess) which was painted.

 

I'd go for the darkest shade though as the coach weathered the shade would probably lighten.

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32 minutes ago, rprodgers said:

Apologises if this has been mentioned before re the 4 wheel brake is the arrangement of the guards duckets at the very rear windows at the very rear of the coach unique  just to the LBSC railway or did any other companies have this arrangement?

 

 

 

No, Great Eastern is another such. There are others,

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12 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Whilst characteristic of the LB&SCR, it's by no means unusual; LNWR 4-wheel brake thirds spring to mind. Of the liveries offered in batches 1 and 2, the only one I'd say categorically not is the Midland livery, since Midland arc-roof carriages of the 1880s-90s didn't have duckets at all, except for the 4-wheel passenger brake vans (i.e. without passenger accommodation). The Great Western had some 4-wheelers with the duckets at the very end but these didn't have the large windows in the end.

I want a GER brake third. The end windows on the Hattons coach are more or less the right size and shape but the duckets are wrong. The Hornby offering has duckets that are right for the GER but the end windows are completely wrong. 

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5 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

I want a GER brake third. The end windows on the Hattons coach are more or less the right size and shape but the duckets are wrong. The Hornby offering has duckets that are right for the GER but the end windows are completely wrong. 

 

The GER livery is in batch 3, along with NER, Caledonian, and S&DJR. The ducket is a separate piece in the assembly. Perhaps if you speak nicely to them they might be persuaded to tool up for a round-topped ducket, which I think would be right for all those except the North Eastern. Alternatively, Evergreen do a range of quarter-round styrene section...

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1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The GER livery is in batch 3, along with NER, Caledonian, and S&DJR. The ducket is a separate piece in the assembly. Perhaps if you speak nicely to them they might be persuaded to tool up for a round-topped ducket, which I think would be right for all those except the North Eastern. Alternatively, Evergreen do a range of quarter-round styrene section...

The alternative is to replace the end of the Hornby one. This is a one piece clear plastic moulding so it shouldn't be difficult. I am looking into replacing it with clear plasticard or acrylic with an overlay either etched or laser cut. 

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12 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

The alternative is to replace the end of the Hornby one. 

 

That sounds to me like a more difficult modification to an inferior approximation to a GER carriage.

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2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

That sounds to me like a more difficult modification to an inferior approximation to a GER carriage.

Not difficult at all, as I said the end is a separate piece in clear plastic so should be readily removable. I won't know for certain though until I get one to check it out.

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Posted (edited)
On 05/03/2021 at 09:30, rprodgers said:

Apologises if this has been mentioned before re the 4 wheel brake is the arrangement of the guards duckets at the very rear windows at the very rear of the coach unique  just to the LBSC railway or did any other companies have this arrangement?

 

I have ordered a number of sets (different companies) and am wondering if I should re-order some coaches singularly 

A quick image search on the internet when this came up on the Hornby thread a few weeks ago showed at least the following with that arrangement: LBSCR, LSWR, LCDR, SECR, GNR, GWR, LYR, Caledonian, GER, LNWR, M&GN - not all the coaches from those companies, and there's almost certainly others, but it was definitely a common feature - especially for those companies that ran fixed/'block' sets and suburban services, which would generally be marshalled with a brake at either end of each set.

Edited by Nick C
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3 minutes ago, Nick C said:

A quick image search [...] LYR, 

 

I wouldn't claim to have done a comprehensive search but the L&Y examples I found had the ducket near but not at the end - a short blank panel intervened. But since the L&Y's style of panelling was so radically different from that of the Hattons and Hornby carriages, it's really a minor quibble!

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4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Whilst characteristic of the LB&SCR, it's by no means unusual; LNWR 4-wheel brake thirds spring to mind. Of the liveries offered in batches 1 and 2, the only one I'd say categorically not is the Midland livery, since Midland arc-roof carriages of the 1880s-90s didn't have duckets at all, except for the 4-wheel passenger brake vans (i.e. without passenger accommodation). The Great Western had some 4-wheelers with the duckets at the very end but these didn't have the large windows in the end.

Thanks Stephen your reply is much appreciated 

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I was looking at the expected arrival date of the GWR Hattons Genesis coaches and noticed in the search return the absence of the full brake coach.  Perhaps an omission in the search return or has it been dropped from the line up please?

 

Edit:  I could only find the coach by searching "6 wheel full brake" rather than a specific search for a GWR variant.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/498081/hattons_originals_h4_6fb_101_6_wheel_full_brake_99_in_gwr_chocolate_and_cream/stockdetail.aspx

 

Edit:  a subsequent search specifically for a "GWR 6 wheel full brake coach" actually found the coach.  Odd that it did not work previously.

 

Edited by GWR-fan
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On 14/03/2021 at 00:04, GWR-fan said:

I was looking at the expected arrival date of the GWR Hattons Genesis coaches and noticed in the search return the absence of the full brake coach.  Perhaps an omission in the search return or has it been dropped from the line up please?

 

Edit:  I could only find the coach by searching "6 wheel full brake" rather than a specific search for a GWR variant.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/498081/hattons_originals_h4_6fb_101_6_wheel_full_brake_99_in_gwr_chocolate_and_cream/stockdetail.aspx

 

Edit:  a subsequent search specifically for a "GWR 6 wheel full brake coach" actually found the coach.  Odd that it did not work previously.

 

 

Exactly the same happened to me. When I first looked, none of the 6-W full brakes would display.

 

I found if I navigated via this page however. I could see and order everything.

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