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'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement


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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

 

There are very many who find 19.00 is well before the end of work time.  Commuters are still arriving in Newark (or were until Covid) at 8pm and 9pm, having set off at 6am and 7am.  I've been kicked out of remote marking at midnight when the system closed for the night, fortunately after Mr S and his sister had fled the nest...

 

As I said, modelling time is something not always easy to find.

 

Les

 

Is this a competition?

 

did I ever say there weren’t?

 

I’m really struggling with the idea that my 70 hour weeks plus hours at the weekend for the last 15 years are odd just because I choose to get up at 0500 and go to bed at midnight and spend what spare time I do have modelling rather than in the gym, or watching football.

 

I’m sorry but I do feel rather under attack by you for somehow failing as a parent or a commuter. I *make* the time because it’s important to me - and if that involves modelling on the train, or in hotel rooms (pre-pandemic at least 1-2 nights per week) then that’s what I do. 

 

 

Edited by Helmdon
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47 minutes ago, Helmdon said:

 

 I *make* the time because it’s important to me - and if that involves modelling on the train, or in hotel rooms (pre-pandemic at least 1-2 nights per week) then that’s what I do. 

 

 

You are in good company.

Rod Stewart also does railway modelling in hotel rooms when he is on tour.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Helmdon said:

Is this a competition?

 

did I ever say there weren’t?

 

I’m really struggling with the idea that my 70 hour weeks plus hours at the weekend for the last 15 years are odd just because I choose to get up at 0500 and go to bed at midnight and spend what spare time I do have modelling rather than in the gym, or watching football.

 

I’m sorry but I do feel rather under attack by you for somehow failing as a parent or a commuter. I *make* the time because it’s important to me - and if that involves modelling on the train, or in hotel rooms (pre-pandemic at least 1-2 nights per week) then that’s what I do. 

 

 

 

Sorry if you feel under attack- the point was intended to be the opposite- as someone working long hours who will make time to model you are very rare.  Evidence- look at the ages of those behind layouts and working as stewards at shows.  A few years ago we had a new member join our club who lowered the average age.  He was 62.

 

Railway modelling isn't the only hobby suffering- amateur dramatic and operatic companies and choirs were closing at a steady rate (before covid) due to members getting too old to continue and no supply of twenty to fifty year olds to replace them.  The tendency is for youngsters to be active members up to the point at which they start work, after which most can't get time off for rehearsal and as for guaranteeing to be available for show week or a big concert.......  One of the most successful amateur companies at the Gilbert and Sullivan Festival is called Bus Pass Opera, for obvious reasons.

 

If you are on here, working full-time, and making models you are a star.  However not all stars are the same, and others do their fireside modelling by making buildings or painting and weathering.  

 

Les

 

Edited by Les1952
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On 12/05/2021 at 19:13, Ravenser said:

A lot of light railways do seem to have run varnished teak coaches - although by their latter days the varnished part of the description might have been questionable 

 

Put another way, the varnish had vanished...

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My five penn'orth on the scratch build skills vs time question is that people 'do' railway modelling for different reasons, and there are those for whom the main point of the hobby is to build accurate models from scratch and perhaps to paint them to perfectly represent complex lining schemes, but have no interest in running them on layouts.  Others are mroe concerned with operational accuracy and running the trains, and are happy if the models are to scale and reasonably well detailed and finished, and run well in order to acquire sufficient stock to run their timetables.  And there are an almost infinite variety of approaches that fall between these stools, all of which are fine so long as the main purpose of the hobby, to provide enjoyment to the hobbyist, is served.

 

Most of us have to compromise in order to achieve the results we want in a reasonable amount of time, and as one gets older, one realises that, without being unduly morbid, time is running out!  I am pushing 70 and, assuming my health, eyesight, steadyness of hand and wits manage to hold out (and they are all perceptably deteriorating), am probably good for another 20 years tops, so despite being retired and not short of free time to devote to my trains, I would be ill-advised to embark on any major project.  In the event I started my BLT 6 years ago and got it to a state of reasonable finishedness and fully operating about 3 and half years ago.  There is plenty of operational interest, and while the period of stock acquistion (RTR and kits) is coming to a close I have plenty to keep my interest both in operating trains and in building models for the 20 years at least; paradoxically, this frees me to undertake time consuming projects now that the donkey work is done.

 

I never use RTR items straight out of the box; all are at least given a basic washover of weathering to tone them down and many have had additional detail added or been altered to represent something else entirely.  Scenery and buildings are still a work in progress, and will be for many years yet.  A good layout is of course never finished, but I have achieved my aim; good running of reasonably detailed and scale stock on a plausible track layout against a backdrop of what I hope is plausible scenery and buildings to evoke the area and period that I model.  This is what the original intention was when I started what I suspected would be last layout, and the layout has repaid the effort I put into it many times over (and should continue to do so).

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My attitude is atm as an under 30, who has several hobbies on the go, is to get the heavier ground work done so that if/when we are alittle more limited by family life i can quietly work away in the evenings. These coaches will happily work with my southern and GWR engines for a fun train which isn't as long as if made from birdcages.

 

@Les1952I keep missing Buss pass Opera but do enjoy the annual festival. Charles Court are worth a watch as they have a show based around a train ride for this years festival alongside their Iolanthe.   

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One of the great things about railway modelling is it is such a flexible hobby and you can put in as much or as little as you desire. It's your layout you can do what you want with it and unless you make a claim to be absolutely strictly modelling a particular period or location you can mix and match as you feel. I have no problem at all with modellers who can and want to build their own stock, buildings etc but dont view our hobby as a competition.

 

That classic line of "make time" used to make my blood boil when I worked on the railways. It was usually said by managers who had assistants and secretaries! Personally I find doing work on the layout or building something requires a good deal of concentration so often after a long day my faculties cant cope with much more than operating trains and even then if there's a derailment..........

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I might also add that, I increasingly find that any time left at the end of the day finds me rather too jaded to embark upon any but the simplest tasks, and building rolling stock kits, is not, for me, among the simplest of tasks!

 

Whether you view the Hattons coaches as a RTR solution OOB, or as a modeller's resource, or, indeed, as both, I think these coaches have a lot to offer. 

 

I hope and expect Hattons will be rewarded with strong sales. They deserve to for producing these.

 

And, BTW, this release fully justifies the policy of retailer commissions and shows how they are enriching our hobby.     

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7 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

And, BTW, this release fully justifies the policy of retailer commissions and shows how they are enriching our hobby.     

I would also suggest that it shows Mr Hattons that there's a market for doing more of it, which given the hole in the sales of Hornby stuff...

 

(obviously I know the limited edition loco commission is long proven, but this is punting out £30 stuff in volume - and crucially, from what I can see here, to a higher standard for about the same price than one of the main 'manufacturers')

 

Edited by Helmdon
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Whilst these coaches might not stimulate an immediate upturn in authentic modelling of pre-group railways, it's likely they will attract people who would like to, but currently lack the time and/or have yet to acquire the necessary skills.

 

In my younger days, I went in for a good deal of what I euphemistically call "plausible substitution", the level of plausibility being variable, to put it politely!

 

Nearly all of that material got replaced with better or further adapted to become more plausible over the years. I can easily imagine the Hatton's Genesis range fulfilling similar needs as modellers' aims and abilities develop.

 

John       

Edited by Dunsignalling
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Theres a danger of overthinking this 

 

Obviously there are modelers who only model pregrouping . Starved of rtr, out of necessity they have to scratch build or build kits . They can therefore make specific items they need . These generic coaches are unlikely to appeal to them . Who they will appeal to is folks that have been buying pregrouping locos because they look nice  and now have something to run them with . With me , I have an LMS red precedent on order from Rails and wanted something nice to run with them . The LMS livery on these coaches looks stunning , so that's why I ordered .   

 

I'll bet there are a lot of people in a similar position , have bought SE&CR D class , C class , is it the H class, P class, Terriers , Precedents and Caley 812s that just want something to run with them 

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36 minutes ago, Legend said:

 I'll bet there are a lot of people in a similar position , 

Absolutely, I've got Lucknow on order, so I've ordered 5 LNWR Genesis to be going on with. All my other coaching stock is E numbered crimson and cream (whether Gresley, Thompson or Mk1), so I needed something....

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31 minutes ago, Helmdon said:

Absolutely, I've got Lucknow on order, so I've ordered 5 LNWR Genesis to be going on with. All my other coaching stock is E numbered crimson and cream (whether Gresley, Thompson or Mk1), so I needed something....

 

How about as an alternative to run with the coaches a suitable Webb Coal Tank.

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5 minutes ago, johnd said:

 

How about as an alternative to run with the coaches a suitable Webb Coal Tank.

I'm planning to get some for that very purpose. Hornby's LNWR livery looks rather off to me.

 

That being said, I have wagons that could run with it, so this is definitely an "I want it" rather than an "I need it" purchase.

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I inadvertently started off this debate so I will say my approach.  I am building a Cambrian layout set in 1895, and as it has taken so long I have found the correct timetable so will run to a sequence using the timetable.  (There could be two hours between trains so a sequence is what works.)  I have also, for various reasons acquired locos an coaches to run this, but up to now I only have 3 Cambrian ones that fit the bill.  I am not sure how many I will need, but at the last look in the race between me and a snail the snail was miles ahead.  I also need to build through coaches, for the GWR, MS&LR, and LNWR.  Period locos and goods stock is also necessary.  So, when I do a running session, which is hampered by the fact I need to actually power the point motors, I can run my timetable with non period stock.  The theory is that I shall gradually replace them with the correct period and company.  (My youngest son told me the other day that I really ought to get on with the scenery, "The wrong stock in the right scenery is better than the wrong stock in the wrong scenery.")

 

So the Hattons coaches will probably save me about four, perhaps only two years work but they are a long way down the line.  Buying them means I will have enough to run the timetable in its entirety.  I also have a coal tank for the same reason.

 

I have to say that I am finally retired and like other people in my position I wonder how I had time to go to work, and modelling time seems even more scarce.

 

Will these coaches move people towards pre-grouping?  Thought?  As younger people join the hobby, who have never seen a steam railway network, the draw of the 50s and 60s will diminish, except if you want to run steam that is where most of the r-t-r is, but there will be no emotional attachment to those years so a good set of r-t-r in the pre-groupng era can only be good?

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I think that, given enough trade support, a much more even spread of interest across the various eras will emerge.

 

However, I think the 1950s/60s period is likely to remain very popular long after we who were around then, no longer are. Why? Not simply the allure of readily available r-t-r steam locos (including quite a few survivors from the pre-group era) but also being able to run them alongside diesels. 

 

Across most of the country, the last decade of steam included probably the broadest mixture of potential modelling subjects in concurrent use of any period in UK railway history; ranging from brand new diesel and electric stock to fairly ancient branch line locos hauling distinctly middle-aged coaches.

 

Added to which, the infrastructure in many locations had changed little from Victorian times, so it's quite easy to backdate layouts to earlier periods if it takes ones fancy, just by changing the stock and any road vehicles.

 

John

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4 hours ago, ChrisN said:

 

Will these coaches move people towards pre-grouping?  Thought?  As younger people join the hobby, who have never seen a steam railway network, the draw of the 50s and 60s will diminish, except if you want to run steam that is where most of the r-t-r is, but there will be no emotional attachment to those years so a good set of r-t-r in the pre-groupng era can only be good?

 

Chicken and egg sort of situation, what the market thinks is popular Vs what is popular because it's already readily available.

 

Certainly when I rejoined the hobby it would have been waaaay easier for me to model the 50s RTR instead of the 40s, but that's where my interest is. And fortunately there has been an influx of more appropriate models for that era in the past few years.

 

My view is, "build it and they will come" , if the RTR stock is there, people will model it!

 

 

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6 hours ago, johnd said:

 

How about as an alternative to run with the coaches a suitable Webb Coal Tank.

don't start - Lucknow (and the Titfield Thunderbolt) are the two exceptions to my single minded pursuit of the GCLE... In 10 years of collecting for this project.

Edited by Helmdon
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actually, to be strictly fair, I did have an A2/3 and Clan on pre-order. But on pre-order with Hattons, so when the inevitable happened I recycled the money back into things I needed. Like a V2.

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On 10/06/2021 at 18:09, Helmdon said:

don't start - Lucknow (and the Titfield Thunderbolt) are the two exceptions to my single minded pursuit of the GCLE... In 10 years of collecting for this project.

 

Well, at least they're both from the same railway company; sort of

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Did a searh and couldn’t find an answer and no time to slog through 127 pages of posts in this topic so here goes. Was there a general time period when 4 and 6 wheel coaches were retired? I am mostly interested in the SR ones to possibly run with my Wainwright 4-4-0 when it arrives. From what I could find on the internet it appears many 4 wheel coaches were moved to the Isle of Wight around 1930 and retired over the coming decade. However what about 6 wheelers? Were they like on the GWR, retired to maintenance use over the 1930s, or did some have the middle wheel removed and boggies added on each end? Or did they just have a big bonfire? Unfortunately not much on the internet about the SR. Thanks 

Edited by Cofga
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32 minutes ago, Cofga said:

Did a searh and couldn’t find an answer and no time to slog through 127 pages of posts in this topic so here goes. Was there a general time period when 4 and 6 wheel coaches were retired? I am mostly interested in the SR ones to possibly run with my Wainwright 4-4-0 when it arrives. From what I could find on the internet it appears many 4 wheel coaches were moved to the Isle of Wight around 1930 and retired over the coming decade. However what about 6 wheelers? Were they like on the GWR, retired to maintenance use over the 1930s, or did some have the middle wheel removed and boggies added on each end? Or did they just have a big bonfire? Unfortunately not much on the internet about the SR? Thanks 

 

One word - Electrification!

 

While some 4 / 6 wheelers did migrate to the IOW an awful lot had their underframe removed and were then doubled (or sometimes trebled up on a new underframe to make EMU vehicles.

 

See https://www.bloodandcustard.com/LSWR-3carmotorunits.html#ESUFourteenZeroOne

 

 

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2 hours ago, Cofga said:

Did a searh and couldn’t find an answer and no time to slog through 127 pages of posts in this topic so here goes. Was there a general time period when 4 and 6 wheel coaches were retired? 

 

As a general rule of thumb, they survived longest on the LNER - especially in East Anglia. They were generally in rapid decline on the GWR and the LMS constituents by the Great War, though on the LMS some survivors could be seen even in express trains on the Midland Division in the early 1920s, usually as strengtheners. Some actual numbers were posted upthread somewhere, so it will be worth trawling back through if you really want to know. Carriages of this type were built in the 1880s/90s at a time when the capital value of a passenger carriage was written down to nil after a bit over 20 years, so it could legitimately be replaced by a new carriage paid for out of revenue (i.e. not increasing the company's capitalisation). Of course many such carriages continued in service for some years more as duplicate stock. 

 

On withdrawal, they were usually broken up. Quite how the material was usually disposed of - how much recycling went on - would be interesting to know. Only a small fraction were adapted as service stock - mess and tool vans etc. - or sold off for housing, sports pavilions, etc. Those tend to be the ones that have survived to be restored - or to sit in some forlorn queue awaiting restoration one day.

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I assume Hattons can go the further mile on detail as they do not sell to dealers often if at all so they keep the money each model earns where as Hornby sell all over the world to shops etc and profits are split .So  maybe 25-30 per cent extra detailing money is allowed..Who knows .....?

Edited by friscopete
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17 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

As a general rule of thumb, they survived longest on the LNER - especially in East Anglia. They were generally in rapid decline on the GWR and the LMS constituents by the Great War, though on the LMS some survivors could be seen even in express trains on the Midland Division in the early 1920s, usually as strengtheners. Some actual numbers were posted upthread somewhere, so it will be worth trawling back through if you really want to know. Carriages of this type were built in the 1880s/90s at a time when the capital value of a passenger carriage was written down to nil after a bit over 20 years, so it could legitimately be replaced by a new carriage paid for out of revenue (i.e. not increasing the company's capitalisation). Of course many such carriages continued in service for some years more as duplicate stock. 

 

On withdrawal, they were usually broken up. Quite how the material was usually disposed of - how much recycling went on - would be interesting to know. Only a small fraction were adapted as service stock - mess and tool vans etc. - or sold off for housing, sports pavilions, etc. Those tend to be the ones that have survived to be restored - or to sit in some forlorn queue awaiting restoration one day.

The six wheel coaches lasted even longer in Ireland. There is even pictures of a rake of six wheelers hauled by diesel locomotives.

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