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'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement

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2 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Which rather begs the question as to whether the prototypes were built to that level of consistency.....:diablo_mini:

 

 

 

You are assuming the measurement only refers to the length. These are different carriages

 

If it helps, I can't identify different classes of GWR pannier, they all look the same to me

 

Richard

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1 minute ago, Gareth Collier said:

... but a RTR generic coach from Hattons is not going to wipe out model makers overnight.

 

I agree entirely.

 

Nonetheless, these RTR coaches will be the first intentionally generic ones, in 4mm. scale at least, for more years than I care to recall.

 

That there is perceived to be a market for them - apparently justified by the content of this thread - does tell me something about the current trend in the model railway market.

 

I, for one, do not feel that it is an positive one in the long term.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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It might be a bit too much to ask of @Hattons Dave but I am wondering how many 4 and 6-wheelers have been pre-ordered to date?

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2 minutes ago, RLWP said:

If it helps, I can't identify different classes of GWR pannier, they all look the same to me

 

That's GWR-ist - I'll report you to the Great Western Society !

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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1 minute ago, RLWP said:

 

The LNWR built both 30' and 30' 1" carriages - they are different (there's a reason and I can't remember what it is)

 

Ah, you've spoilt my little joke. But the 30'1" variety were very much more numerous - 827 of the basic 5-compartment third built, though many converted to brake third etc. subsequently. I've seen the claim that this was the second most numerous single design of carriage built prior to the Mk 1 though the 832 NER 32' thirds that I quoted earlier would appear to call that into question.

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4 minutes ago, RLWP said:

 

The LNWR built both 30' and 30' 1" carriages - they are different (there's a reason and I can't remember what it is)

 

Here:

 

Quote

Some authors have omitted the ‘1in’ when describing these carriages, referring to them as simply ‘30ft’. This can be very misleading for two reasons.

 

One is that standard compartment sizes were used and, when adding these together, plus the partitions and ends, they come to 30ft 1in, not 30ft. For modelers (for example) to adjust dimensions in order to arrive at 30ft is making matters more complicated, not easier! The same standard compartment sizes etc. were used in the contemporary eight-wheeled carriages and in that case worked out to exactly 42ft.

 

The second reason for including the 1in in our descriptions is that there was an earlier standard length of 30ft 0in. These carriages which were built in the early to mid-1870s were totally different in design and details, but were still extant a decade or more after the 30ft 1in types were built.

 

There was also a new 30ft 0in underframe used for post-1908 Covered Carriage Trucks and other NPCS as well as the 11-coach Birmingham-Sutton trains of 1911, but this was of a much more modern design made entirely of steel and with bulb-iron solebars.

 

http://www.lnwrs.org.uk/Sales/portfolio15.php

 

Mind you, paint them in LCDR livery and I doubt most modellers would tell the difference

 

Richard

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3 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Mind you, paint them in LCDR livery and I doubt most modellers would tell the difference

 

... or assume they were Mansion House sets.

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3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

... such as painting it red?

 

1 hour ago, RLWP said:

 

I've been sitting on my hands trying not to point that one out...

 

3 hours ago, Denbridge said:

There is a very advanced replica being built at Tyseley. Last I heard work had resumed with a view towards completion in the next couple of years.

 

Originally they were painted green, although there is little to show exactly what the shade was. In the 1860's several were painted red (inaccurately described as vermilion) although the exact shade is unclear (possibly "brick red"). 

 

Work on the replica (not the full size "model" at Milton Keynes AFAIK) started in 1986 but stopped in 1990 when about 90% completed and has only just started again.  When finished it could be used to scan for a RTR model.

 

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36 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Which rather begs the question as to whether the prototypes were built to that level of consistency.....:diablo_mini:

 

Or was the odd inch more in the nature of a manufacturing tolerance?

 

John

 

 

Those built in winter were 30' and those built in the summer were 30' 1"........:huh:

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If a model purports to be a scale mode of a prototype then I agree that the manufacturer should be doing their best to get the model accurate within reasonable tolerences/cost.

 

But these are not accurate prototypes therefore such criticism is uncalled for, there is no hypocrisy in accepting a generic item but being critical of something that someone purports is an accurate representation. 

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“Those built in winter were 30' and those built in the summer were 30' 1"

 

You’re misunderstanding: the ones built in the summer, with dry wood, grew an inch longer when it rained; and, the ones built in winter with wet wood shrunk by an inch when spring came.

 

 

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I've just finished slogging through all 23 pages. It started out a lot better than it ended. Anyhow, even after reading all that, good and bad, my excitement  remains undiminished.

 

I think this is a brilliant announcement and made even more brilliant by the thought of full brakes being added.

 

Well done Hattons, I'm off to order a bunch. I do hope these are a great financial success for you.

 

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55 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I agree entirely.

 

Nonetheless, these RTR coaches will be the first intentionally generic ones, in 4mm. scale at least, for more years than I care to recall.

 

That there is perceived to be a market for them - apparently justified by the content of this thread - does tell me something about the current trend in the model railway market.

 

I, for one, do not feel that it is an positive one in the long term.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

You’re extrapolating an entire trend from one announcement.

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9 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

“Those built in winter were 30' and those built in the summer were 30' 1"

 

You’re misunderstanding: the ones built in the summer, with dry wood, grew an inch longer when it rained; and, the ones built in winter with wet wood shrunk by an inch when spring came.

 

 

 

One hard shunt and all bets are off.

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Not my area of interest - unless there is a convincing BR Departmental version - but i can't believe that there is not plenty of scope for after market activity here, to provide the gubbins needed to make these coaches look more accurate for any particular line, be it the roof, the windows, the panelling, the underframe. A great opportunity for someone.

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2 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

 

Why not break the cycle of lookalike/fantasy when you can get it right first time for the same price!

 

Mark Saunders

I agree, don't get me wrong... But tooling up a set of coaches, lets say SECR stock, is rather limited in terms of return. You will get maybe 2 or 3 livery options and your done. With a generic set of the right "feeling" you can get far more livery options and runs reaching more customers for your tooling cost. These may not be strictly accurate but will satisfy people even as a place holder to get something running while you work on the proper kits. If it was my money I would do the same. Then if say the SECR models sell out on day 1 while others sit on a shelf for a year perhaps later I would follow them up with proper stock for the region that is biting.  The only surprise to me here is there is no LSWR livery set for people who bought the radial. 

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Really seems like this thread is just derailing into arguments about generic coaches vs "must fit the railway/railways I'm modeling and screw the rest of them". I personally think the last announcement was the best compromise before turning this to a "build it yourself painted kit" thing.

Edited by Joseph the L&YR lover
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Just now, Mr chapman said:

  The only surprise to me here is there is no LSWR livery set for people who bought the radial. 

It's in the later sets announced ;)

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11 minutes ago, Pteremy said:

Not my area of interest - unless there is a convincing BR Departmental version - but i can't believe that there is not plenty of scope for after market activity here, to provide the gubbins needed to make these coaches look more accurate for any particular line, be it the roof, the windows, the panelling, the underframe. A great opportunity for someone.

There is two BR departmental version announced in the first run

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1 minute ago, Aire Head said:

There is two BR departmental version announced in the first run

theres 3 green, crimson & red

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Just now, mozzer models said:

theres 3 green, crimson & red

Whoops my bias is showing I tend to ignore green things :jester:

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1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Or you could go to Milton Keynes...

 

1009_Wolverton.jpg

 

 

 

Jason

 

The 'Bloomer' is no longer resident outside the front of Milton Keynes Central station.

 

The replica cosmetic (non working) locomotive was moved to Milton Keynes Museum in March 2017 and the front of the station rebuilt to accommodate a new bus station, taxi rank and pick-up/drop off points. 

 

It was built at the same time as construction began on the other one at Tyseley.

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4 minutes ago, Vistisen said:

And the wheels should be 18.83 mm apart!

 

Really?

 

Talk us through that one.

 

 

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