Jump to content

Hattons Dave

'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Hattons Dave said:

 

Hi JSpencer,

 

SECR livery on our Genesis coaches will be the pre-1912 "rich purple lake lined finely in gold" (as described in Bogie Coaches of the SECR, David Gould, Page 11).

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

 Excellent news. Thanks for the rapid feedback.

  • Like 3
  • Agree 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hattons have shown off the artwork for their LBSC liveried carriages, they are calling the livery Umber and Cream, as an LBSC modeller I'm going to call it Painted Mahogany, since it includes neither Umber or Cream, and is in fact Painted Mahogany.

 

They are very nice looking, and seeing them in this livery may convince me to get some! It makes much more sense to have 4 / 6 wheelers in this livery than Umber and Cream White. (The LBSC didn't use cream, it used White, as can be seen in the appropriate board minutes, or on http://www.lbscr.org/Rolling-Stock/Liveries/index.html )

 

Gary

 

PS. I notice Hattons have removed "and cream" from their website, it's a start, now they just need to change "Umber" to "Mahogany"

 

They did it, they changed it to Mahogany, well done Hattons!! Top job!

 

 

Edited by BlueLightning
  • Like 11
  • Informative/Useful 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting. Did the four wheelers ever actually carry umber and white?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a picture of some later Billinton 4 wheelers in umber and white, I don't think any Stroudley ones got it, and not many of the Billinton ones would have. and I very much doubt any got the later all over Umber livery

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Hattons Dave

 

Your colleagues elsewhere are very insistent that you are doing these in post-1911 Umber, I would therefore advise you return to the drawing board, look at umber carriages. The first thing you need to do is change the colour to Umber, rather than the Mahogany currently shown. You should then remove the Garter used during the era they were in Mahogany, and replace it with the crest that was used with Umber livery, I would also advise getting rid of the Mahogany era font on the lettering and replacing this with the later Umber style.

 

Probably best not to use a carriage in Painted Mahogany as the background either, you won't find a picture of one in all over Umber to use though, there's a good reason for that, I'll leave you to work out what it is.

 

My advice though would be to leave them as they are, and change your description to the livery that you have got them in.

 

Just my 2p, happy to help, I can give any extra details about this you might want.

 

Gary

  • Like 5
  • Agree 3
  • Informative/Useful 1
  • Funny 2
  • Friendly/supportive 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting - thank you, Gary. I agree with Gary that it would make more sense for these carriages to be in the livery as planned and for the name to be updated to reflect this.

 

Gary - I presume that this livery is circa 1890s - 1900s in era (the carriages having been earlier in varnished teak)?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are quite correct James, leaving them as is and changing the name to reflect the livery they have used would be the best option for Hattons. As I said when we discussed them on my livestream when they first announced LBSC livery, umber is a very odd choice for 4 and 6 wheelers, especially since the majority of the LBSC livery locos available RTR are in Stroudley livery, which would go well with the artwork shown.

 

Yeas 1890's to 1900's would be a good era for these, as you say they were varnished when first built, and only received paint once varnish could no longer revive the look of them, you could probably get away with it earlier, the livery having been adopted in 1870, before which LBSC carriages had been in a variety of colours, which could have seen the painted Mahogany earlier, but these were closer in look to the Hornby Rocket coaches than the ones offered by Hattons, with rounder more stagecoach styled lower panelling.

 

Gary

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm very confused by all this. Is the consensus that the new LBSCR color scheme is excellent, would work well with RTR Stroudley painted locomotives, and folks would buy them by pallet load except they won't because the website incorrectly says they are painted umber?

 

Seems an odd thing to get excited about, am I missing something?

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ronny said:

am I missing something?

 

Accuracy and misinformation spread by a large and trusted source.

 

2 hours ago, Ronny said:

Seems an odd thing to get excited about

 

Although I see no-one getting "excited", only a keen interest in seeing accuracy of information spread by such sources.

 

2 hours ago, Ronny said:

buy them by pallet load except they won't because the website incorrectly says they are painted umber

 

I also fail to see where I said people won't buy them because of the name. I am sure they will sell well, no matter what, and in fact I wish Hattons the best in this, but as a modeller of the LBSC, and a member of the Brighton Circle, it would be nice for them to get basic facts right.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm also confused, they look umber to me, with no cream to be seen. I can't see any varnished mahogany.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Nile said:

they look umber to me

 

they're not, the livery was completely different

 

3 minutes ago, Nile said:

no cream to be seen

 

They altered the website to remove reference to "and cream", but they wouldn't have worn Umber without it anyway

 

4 minutes ago, Nile said:

varnished mahogany

 

They're not

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even more confused now. I'll wait for Dave to clarify things.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are in the Painted Mahogany Livery, as per the coach at the Bluebell, it's the best livery for them, and Hattons have done a great job of it.

 

Every detail of the livery is different to the later Umber livery. I can't post photos here because of copyright, but I can link to them (maybe...... hopefully)

 

https://twitter.com/OakHillRailway/status/1221164476889796608?s=20

 

Gary

Edited by BlueLightning

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Ronny said:

Seems an odd thing to get excited about, am I missing something?

People take umberage to all sorts of things.

  • Craftsmanship/clever 1
  • Funny 14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 25/01/2020 at 18:28, BlueLightning said:

 

Accuracy and misinformation spread by a large and trusted source.

 

 

Didn't you get the memo, Gary? This is post-truth Brexit Britain, we'll have none of that accuracy and correct information here.  :p

 

Pssst Hattons, just change your description. 

  • Like 1
  • Funny 5
  • Friendly/supportive 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well done Hattons for listening to feedback and updating the description!

 

The fact you do listen like this is yet more proof that the "big boy" manufacturers should be very wary of what you come out with in the future!

 

Gary

  • Like 5
  • Agree 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, I think I see now. I thought that umber livery looked a bit light, it's actually painted mahogany, a new one to me. How long did this livery last? And can you recommend a paint that matches it?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nile,

 

Yes painted, once Stroudley became CME in 1870 he changed the carriage livery to be varnished mahogany, however there is only so much that varnish can do when working with older carriages, so once they got to a point that the varnish wouldn't give a satisfactory finish they got painted so that they still matched the rest of the coaching stock. The livery was officially changed in 1903 to umber and white, and then again in 1911 to plain umber.

 

I use Phoenix Precision P988 Mahogany for my carriages in that livery.

 

As we can't see the ends of the ends in the Hattons artwork I will also point out that brake ends should be painted Vermillion, again I use Phoenix for this. In this case P994 Buffer Beam Vermillion

 

The only carriages I have to hand to show this are Bachmann TTTE Red Coaches, modified and detailed, but still waiting for transfers!

637251440_2020-01-2818_45_55.jpg.ec9e98b67361cd104ceca664a3eb9b5a.jpg

  • Like 9
  • Thanks 1
  • Informative/Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Hattons Dave Great news on the LBSCR coaches. Have there been any decisions on the running numbers yet please?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like I am the only one disappointed with the change from Umber! So have cancelled. Nevertheless am very much looking forward to the SECR coaches when they arrive.

  • Like 1
  • Funny 2
  • Friendly/supportive 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 28/01/2020 at 21:24, JSpencer said:

@Hattons Dave Great news on the LBSCR coaches. Have there been any decisions on the running numbers yet please?

 

Hello JSpencer,

 

Running numbers are in the product titles or descriptions for all of the batch 1 products with the exception of the LBSCR pack of 4 which I will do momentarily.

The numbers in that pack will be: 332, 272, 411 and 450.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 4
  • Informative/Useful 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, LB&SCR 337 said:

I don't see why in another batch they can't do the umber livery coaches

 

They could, but since 4 wheelers didn't get all over Umber, why make something even more wrong?

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 25/01/2020 at 18:28, BlueLightning said:


it would be nice for them to get basic facts right.

Such as an accurate prototype ?

 

i’m not sure why everyones so ate up about precision accuracy on a pretend product ?

 

enjoy them for what they are.. cheap coaches in nice colours... gap fillers.

i’m sure they will be modellers fodder for many years teased i to accurate types, just as Hornbys 4 wheeler was.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 11
  • Friendly/supportive 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.