'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[BlueLightning]

3 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

I think its a six wheeler and there should be a wheel there.

 

I think it's a 4 wheeler made with the removal of the centre wheelset on a 6 wheeler, as per the description on the Hattons website

 

[PhilJ W]

As well as the smoking/none-smoking signs would not some compartments be designated ladies only? Usually some of those adjacent to the guards compartment. I appreciate that this will require a bit more research as it probably only applied to certain companies. 

[Compound2632]

17 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

but is that gap in the footboard of the four wheeler to be expected on the final model??

 

The 6-wheelers have a gap in the footboard to clear the sideplay of the centre axle. I've felt this to be an unsatisfactory compromise - @maico's Trix 6-wheeler demonstrated that it is possible to avoid this, though perhaps with some compromise on the width over spring/axlebox for the centre axle unit. 

[Compound2632]

5 minutes ago, Skinnylinny said:

I assume its a 6 wheeler with its central wheelset removed as happened to some carriages later in their life. 

 

 

It has to be said that I'm not aware of the LMS doing this with any of their inherited 6-wheelers. I think it's more of a Great Western thing; can't speak for the Southern or LNER.

[BlueLightning]

Yes I saw this on the six wheelers and felt the same, I am hoping that there will be full length footboards for the ones sold with the centre wheelset already removed. (or maybe even some included with the six wheelers for the user to replace if they want? pretty please Hattons)

Edited September 4, 2020 by BlueLightning

[Hattons Dave]

Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback. Here's a revised version of the LMS colour layout following notes above. The yellow lining is thicker and both the mahogany around the windows and black panelling has been added. If you can let us know what you think, it would be appreciated.

The 4 (ex 6) wheel coaches are modelled on coaches that had their centre wheelset removed, and this is how these vehicles will be produced in model form too.

The footboards will retain the gap where the wheelset is removed, as per the colour layouts.

Cheers,

Dave

Edited September 4, 2020 by Hattons Dave

[Skinnylinny]

I'd like to second Gary's request for continuous footboards. The tightest radius I've got on my layout is Peco large radius points so the footboard gap isn't very useful for me on 6-wheelers. 

 

As I was typing this Dave has confirmed the gap will be there. I'll get the plastic strip out to glue along the top of the footboard on my 6-wheelers. Not too difficult a modification to make, no worry about damaging lining or similar, and cheap too. 

 

[BlueLightning]

19 minutes ago, Hattons Dave said:

The 4 (ex 6) wheel coaches are modelled on coaches that had their centre wheelset removed, and this is how these vehicles will be produced in model form too. The footboards will retain the gap where the wheelset is removed, as per the colour layouts.

 

This seems to imply that real life 6 wheelers had a gap in the footboard for the centre wheelset, and then ones that were converted to 4 wheelers continued to have a hole in the footboard to accommodate the removed wheelset. I would be very interested in seeing evidence of this

[maico]

Lots of rich lining on these, even cattle class travelled like Royalty...

[wainwright1]

54 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

It has to be said that I'm not aware of the LMS doing this with any of their inherited 6-wheelers. I think it's more of a Great Western thing; can't speak for the Southern or LNER.

 

Some London Chatham and Dover 6 wheelers had the centre wheel set removed in Southern days. The alterations included the fitting of two diagonal braces on the sole bar and the foot board would have been continuous. All the ones that ran on the Isle of Wight were converted to 4 wheelers, as per the ones preserved on the steam railway, although those are I think grounded bodies which have been remounted onto shortened utility van chassis.

 

All the best

Ray..

[wainwright1]

13 minutes ago, maico said:

Lots of rich lining on these, even cattle class travelled like Royalty...

 

I still think that this livery is much too light.

 

Ray

[Compound2632]

52 minutes ago, Hattons Dave said:

Thanks for the feedback. Here's a revised version of the LMS colour layout following notes above. The yellow lining is thicker and both the mahogany around the windows and black panelling has been added. If you can let us know what you think, it would be appreciated.

 

That looks much more the thing! However, for the door droplights, the fixed surrounds should be the red body colour. I think the actual droplight frame would have been red in LMS days and also Midland days - restorers don't seem to agree on the latter point. Late Midland - red. LMS - red.

 

I have no idea whether the sides of the ducket would be red or black!

Edited September 4, 2020 by Compound2632

[Compound2632]

25 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

 

This seems to imply that real life 6 wheelers had a gap in the footboard for the centre wheelset, and then ones that were converted to 4 wheelers continued to have a hole in the footboard to accommodate the removed wheelset. I would be very interested in seeing evidence of this

 

The gap is unprotypical for any condition. It's there to allow for the sideplay of the centre axle on the model.

[BlueLightning]

Oh I know, I'm well aware I'm asking for evidence of something that didn't happen.

[phil-b259]

26 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

 

This seems to imply that real life 6 wheelers had a gap in the footboard for the centre wheelset, and then ones that were converted to 4 wheelers continued to have a hole in the footboard to accommodate the removed wheelset. I would be very interested in seeing evidence of this

 

My take on it is that the gap in the footboard is not present in real life even on the 6 wheelers!

 

The gap is only necessary because of the need to allow the centre wheel set considerable side to side play so the coach can go round Radius 2 setrack curves. The reason the gap is retained in the 6 to 4 wheel conversions is simply because Hattons do not want to alter the tooling to provide yet another variant* that increases costs and provides more opportunities for assembly errors.

 

If it bugs people that much then I'm sure a bit of plasticard / filler will fix the issue.

 

*much like Oxford Rail didn't get rid of the gap in the footboards of their 4 wheeled Toad brake vans, these also being designed for a 6 wheeled vehicle.

[phil-b259]

9 minutes ago, wainwright1 said:

 

I still think that this livery is much too light.

 

Ray

 

It has been pointed out that the SECR themselves had a very bright / redish livery at one stage.

 

Compare https://www.flickr.com/photos/31514768@N05/3254543265  and http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pic2/lcdr/668.html

 

They are BOTH completely authentic - just represent different time periods (the redish version being the earlier one)

 

[Zunnan]

Grouping liveries had to fit a good many different companies vehicles, and I think as more of these colour layouts arrive it is in the grouping liveries where these coaches really shine. It takes a little emphasis away from the company origins and in effect becomes just another absorbed vehicle. Particularly the updated LMS livery following correction after Compounds comments, that really is pretty! I think I might be in for more than just the odd engineering example...

[Hattons Dave]

37 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

 

This seems to imply that real life 6 wheelers had a gap in the footboard for the centre wheelset, and then ones that were converted to 4 wheelers continued to have a hole in the footboard to accommodate the removed wheelset. I would be very interested in seeing evidence of this

 

Hi BlueLightning,

Apologies for not being clearer - these are two separate points that should have been on separate lines to distinguish them in my original post.

The 4 (ex 6) wheel coaches are being produced based on vehicles that had the centre axle removed in real life.

The models of the 6 wheel (and '4 ex 6' wheel) vehicles will have the cutout in the running boards which is a design element on the models to allow for operation through tighter radius curves.

I've edited the original post to clarify this too.

Cheers,

Dave

[Hattons Dave]

23 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

That looks much more the thing! However, for the door droplights, the fixed surrounds should be the red body colour. I think the actual droplight frame would have been red in LMS days and also Midland days - restorers don't seem to agree on the latter point. Late Midland - red. LMS - red.

 

I have no idea whether the sides of the ducket would be red or black!

Thanks Compound2632, I've looked at this and contemporary images too and have amended the colour layout as below. As before, if you (and others) can let me know what you think it'd be appreciated.

Cheers,

Dave

[Compound2632]

Just now, Hattons Dave said:

Thanks Compound2632, I've looked at this and contemporary images too and have amended the colour layout as below. As before, if you (and others) can let me know what you think it'd be appreciated.
 

 

Bingo!

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, Hattons Dave said:

Hi all,
 

Today we're showing the approved colour layouts for the Genesis coaches in LMS crimson lake.

These will carry the initial 'Period I' livery and also show the smoking signs added following feedback. Appropriate smoking signage for each livery will be added to the coaches and we'll be showing the revised colour layouts in due course.


 

I like the window labels.  Just wondering whether there were still a few LADIES ONLY compartments in that period.

 

 

[BlueLightning]

32 minutes ago, Hattons Dave said:

these are two separate points that should have been on separate lines to distinguish them in my original post.

 

Thanks for the clarification

 

I still think it's a shame that there will be a gap, and a separate part cannot be supplied, but that is totally your prerogative.

 

Gary

[Hattons Dave]

Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback on the LMS colour layouts so far. To end the week, we're showing another full 3D render, this time for the Great Northern Railway's vehicles.

You can view this from any angle in our 3D viewer without any additional software needed.

Please note that the wood grain effect on the render is for illustration only at this stage. The decorated samples will feature authentically reproduced 'Teak' wood grain.
 

Click the link below to view the render and pre-order your coaches:

Hattons Genesis coaches GNR livery 3D render

As always, let us know what you think either here or on the Disqus thread on our website.

Cheers,

Dave

 

[MarkSG]

Teak is going to be the interesting one. It's a notoriously difficult finish to pull off. But if it works, these will look great behind a Stirling Single.

[Zunnan]

The talk of footboards got me digging through my books for 6 to 4 wheel conversions...but I have only succeeded in making things worse (for myself!). This has set in my mind something entirely the opposite way around to the 6 to 4 wheel.

 

S&MJR 6 wheel compos numbers 6 to 9 and thirds 11 to 13 from the 4 wheelers; great! Saloon conversion number 10 might be a bit more work however...but I think even that might even be doable from one single 5 compartment coach body with the careful extraction and reversal of one and a half compartments from each side. A bit of a rearrangement with central double doors and 4 windows between the single compartment and the guards double doors really won't be far off. Even the real thing looks to have been done this same way judging by the misaligned panelling that resulted.

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/smjsa280.htm

 

Good grief, every time I dig a bit deeper I find myself liking these coaches even more.