'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[Skinnylinny 5,427]

It could be argued that there's little point in adding the lighting if it's so dim you can't see it. That being said, the best of both worlds would be having a small potentiometer to allow the end customer to set their desired brightness level. I assume this is an option if using a DCC decoder, but I'm old fashioned and using DC. 

[Edge 842]

I was originally going to order a bunch with the lighting in myself, but decided not to on the basis that I’ve actually never been satisfied with the way that model coach lights look under normal conditions - either so dim that they may as well not be on or so bright that the passengers would be clutching their hands to their eyes. So my first rake will be for a mix of liveries with no lighting.

 

however, among my innumerable future planned layouts, I would like to model a winters night, and this sort of lighting would be utterly perfect. So am going to purchase one or two sooner or later

 

These are looking very good indeed - the sliding centre wheel set is a bit glaring on occasion through the reverse curves of the points but I think that that is possibly a combination of tight radius, close up shot, unsympathetic paint scheme not hiding anything and over critical eye - I do like that the wheel sets are removable though - very handy

Edited September 28, 2020 by Edge

[SHMD 2,777]

I think the lit coaches would be perfect for running around the base of a Christmas Tree!

 

Lovely models, so much better than I was expecting. They seem to have real character.

The sole survivor, that made it into BR blue/grey, gets my vote for "yes please"!

 

 

Kev.

[MarkSG 1,752]

The problem with lighting is that most of us tend not to run our layouts in the dark! Even those of us who like the use of lighting effects (and that can be things like yard lights and street lamps as well as loco and rolling stock lights) tend to do it in light levels that are probably better described as "gloomy" rather than dark. Imagine a layout at Warley that doesn't have its own floodlights, and you get the idea

 

So for coach lighting to be visible at all, it has to be bright enough to work over at least some background lighting. But then it's probably a bit too bright for real darkness. As with all such things, it's a compromise.

[maico 721]

I hope that the batch 3 SDJR trundles along in due course

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by maico

[PhilJ W 83,367]

The flickering lights could be due to the camera rather than the lights.

[Dunsignalling 7,401]

1 hour ago, Skinnylinny said:

It could be argued that there's little point in adding the lighting if it's so dim you can't see it. That being said, the best of both worlds would be having a small potentiometer to allow the end customer to set their desired brightness level. I assume this is an option if using a DCC decoder, but I'm old fashioned and using DC. 

If you are running with the coach lights on, you should be running with the layout lights off.

 

Personally, I dislike the latter when that part of the timetable comes around on friends' layouts so have taken a conscious decision that my own layout will only be equipped with artificial sunshine, apart from the table lamps in my Pullmans.

 

John

Edited September 28, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[Compound2632 27,012]

26 minutes ago, maico said:

I hope that the batch 3 SDJR trundles along in due course

 

 

A timely reminder that my earlier comments on Midland / LMS livery apply to S&DJR livery, simply substituting blue for red!

Edited September 28, 2020 by Compound2632

[Wickham Green too 1,721]

5 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

Interesting question - is it stood on 4'8.5" gauge track or 5'3"?? 

 

It would seem extravagant to regauge /rebogie a coach to stand on a detached bit of plain track

It's on standard gauge track ........ Irish standard gauge, that is .................. don't forget there were zillions of bogies available when the Irish Rail Mk!!!s got the chop.

[Zunnan 742]

8 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Would have liked to see some closer shots of the six-wheelers going over some crossovers/slips.

 

 

Sams Trains (I know...) gave them probably the worst track you could expect. They didn't seem too phased being propelled over second radius reverse curves but he did report the 6 wheelers sliding axle occasionally sticking and causing the offending ehicle to derail. Considering his floor setup, I'm not too surprised. To be honest, I would have expected more than the handful of derailments he declared after an hour 'playing'!

 

The one thing I didn't like was the arrangement for powering the lighting. I know these are EPs and subject to change, but I really hope they blacken those metal contacts somewhat as they're really quite surprisingly visible. Really looking forward to these now, and for more than just the odd engineers train example I was originally intending on.

[SDJR7F88 4,579]

3 hours ago, maico said:

I hope that the batch 3 SDJR trundles along in due course

 

Fingers crossed! Was really surprised that SDJR was not in one of the earlier batches with the number of SDJR locos made over the years, waiting for something to haul behind them

Edited September 28, 2020 by SDJR7F88

[sem34090 5,939]

"Number of SDJR locos"

 

'Scuse my ignorance, but what S&D locos have we seen that these would be a fair partner to?

[Compound2632 27,012]

28 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

"Number of SDJR locos"

 

'Scuse my ignorance, but what S&D locos have we seen that these would be a fair partner to?

 

Nil. By the time the 2P 4-4-0s came along, there were enough of the 46 ft bogie carriages for the "main line" trains those engines worked. Of course we might get the Bachmann 1532 Class in SDJR livery as No. 54, but even that didn't arrive until 1920 and then still in red though lettered SDJR. The earliest RTR SDJR locomotive made to date is the 7F 2-8-0; the first batch of those arrived in 1914 and the last of the bogie carriages was built in 1913. I doubt they saw any use on passenger trains until the 1950s. Any other RTR SDJR locomotives represent types that arrived in the 1920s - the Bulldogs in their rebuilt form as 3Fs and the Bagnall 3F tank engines.

 

But none of that is going to bother anyone who is sufficiently determined. 

 

Some SDJR carriages spent most of their time on Midland metals, being used on semi-fast trains between Bristol, Birmingham, Derby and Nottingham according to the 1911 carriage marshalling instructions - these were bogie carriages with lavatories. I believe this was done to balance the mileage worked over the SDJR by Midland carriages on the through trains between Bournemouth and the North. Before the introduction of the bogie carriages, 6-wheelers may have been used; 6-wheel centre-luggage composite No. 16 was recorded at Manchester Central in 1925. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Compound2632

[sem34090 5,939]

That sort of confirms what I thought, but I wasn't entirely sure of the dates.

[Compound2632 27,012]

1 minute ago, sem34090 said:

That sort of confirms what I thought, but I wasn't entirely sure of the dates.

 

My reference for the locomotive dates is D. Bradley & D. Milton, Somerset & Dorset Locomotive History (David & Charles, 1973). The reference to No. 16 at Manchester Central is from G. Dow, Midland Style (HMRS, 1975) while my reference for carriage building dates is R, Garner, The Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway Locomotive and Rolling Sock Registers 1886-1930 (The Somerset & Dorset Railway Trust, 2000)*. 

 

The following mapping applies:

• Hattons 6-wheel third: moderately close to the numerous SDJR 6-wheel thirds, built by Oldbury, Cravens, and Highbridge in the late 1880s/early 1890s; these were identical to the standard Midland 6-wheel third - the major difference is that these were a foot shorter than the Hattons carriages and had a turn-under / tumblehome to the ends.
• Hattons 6-wheel brake third: something like the five SDJR 6-wheel brake thirds built by Cravens except that these had only two passenger compartments; like the thirds these were a foot shorter and had tumblehome ends.
• Hattons 6-wheel lavatory composite: the SDJR had no lavatory 6-wheelers but quite a few centre-luggage composites; these were also a foot shorter than the Hattons carriages and had tumblehome ends. They also had a flatter roof profile - 10 ft radius arc rather than 8 ft.
• Hattons 6-wheel brake: really quite close to the SDJR 6-wheel brakes though these were 2 ft shorter; they did, however, have flat ends like the Hattons carriages. The SDJR brakes either had the flatter arc roofs or the later LSWR-style elliptical roof.
• Hattons 4-wheel third: no a good match; SDJR 4-wheel thirds were shorter - 22'6" is one recorded length - with only 4 compartments; flat ends and the lower arc roof.
• Hattons 4-wheel first or composite: there were a number of four-compartment firsts and composites like the restored No. 4, these were mostly 5" longer than the Hattons carriage and were all 6-wheeled; however there were some earlier 4-wheel composites that were very like but a bit shorter.
• Hattons 4-wheel third brake: there were some rather similar SDJR carriages but they seem mostly to have had the guard's lookout not at the end but inboard, with the guard's compartment door at the end; on the other hand there were some 4-wheel brakes with the lookouts at the end.

The 4-wheelers were all replaced by bogie carriages in the first decade of the 20th century if they had not already been replaced by 6-wheelers in the 1890s.

 

*Boy do I get fed up of typing that reference out!

[barrymx5 309]

1 hour ago, sem34090 said:

"Number of SDJR locos"

 

'Scuse my ignorance, but what S&D locos have we seen that these would be a fair partner to?

What about the 1P? Bachmann have already shown  prototypes 

[Compound2632 27,012]

4 minutes ago, barrymx5 said:

What about the 1P? Bachmann have already shown  prototypes 

 

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

Of course we might get the Bachmann 1532 Class in SDJR livery as No. 54, but even that didn't arrive until 1920 and then still in red though lettered SDJR.

 

The native S&DJR 0-4-4Ts - the Avonsides - represent an earlier stage in the evolution of the Johnson 0-4-4T and have significant dimensional differences to the Midland 1532 Class represented by the forthcoming Bachmann model. The engine I mentioned was supplied by the Midland as a replacement for the original No. 54 that had been withdrawn owing to frame damage.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Compound2632

[truffy 2,755]

Phew! Modelling era3 is so much easier!

[Compound2632 27,012]

34 minutes ago, truffy said:

Phew! Modelling era3 is so much easier!

 

Nothing like a challenge!

[SDJR7F88 4,579]

11 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

My reference for the locomotive dates is D. Bradley & D. Milton, Somerset & Dorset Locomotive History (David & Charles, 1973). The reference to No. 16 at Manchester Central is from G. Dow, Midland Style (HMRS, 1975) while my reference for carriage building dates is R, Garner, The Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway Locomotive and Rolling Sock Registers 1886-1930 (The Somerset & Dorset Railway Trust, 2000)*. 

 

The following mapping applies:

• Hattons 6-wheel third: moderately close to the numerous SDJR 6-wheel thirds, built by Oldbury, Cravens, and Highbridge in the late 1880s/early 1890s; these were identical to the standard Midland 6-wheel third - the major difference is that these were a foot shorter than the Hattons carriages and had a turn-under / tumblehome to the ends.
• Hattons 6-wheel brake third: something like the five SDJR 6-wheel brake thirds built by Cravens except that these had only two passenger compartments; like the thirds these were a foot shorter and had tumblehome ends.
• Hattons 6-wheel lavatory composite: the SDJR had no lavatory 6-wheelers but quite a few centre-luggage composites; these were also a foot shorter than the Hattons carriages and had tumblehome ends. They also had a flatter roof profile - 10 ft radius arc rather than 8 ft.
• Hattons 6-wheel brake: really quite close to the SDJR 6-wheel brakes though these were 2 ft shorter; they did, however, have flat ends like the Hattons carriages. The SDJR brakes either had the flatter arc roofs or the later LSWR-style elliptical roof.
• Hattons 4-wheel third: no a good match; SDJR 4-wheel thirds were shorter - 22'6" is one recorded length - with only 4 compartments; flat ends and the lower arc roof.
• Hattons 4-wheel first or composite: there were a number of four-compartment firsts and composites like the restored No. 4, these were mostly 5" longer than the Hattons carriage and were all 6-wheeled; however there were some earlier 4-wheel composites that were very like but a bit shorter.
• Hattons 4-wheel third brake: there were some rather similar SDJR carriages but they seem mostly to have had the guard's lookout not at the end but inboard, with the guard's compartment door at the end; on the other hand there were some 4-wheel brakes with the lookouts at the end.

The 4-wheelers were all replaced by bogie carriages in the first decade of the 20th century if they had not already been replaced by 6-wheelers in the 1890s.

 

*Boy do I get fed up of typing that reference out!

Thanks for all the info. Honestly didn't know the 4-wheelers were gone that early! Though my reference on the number of locos was referring to the number of models available on the market in the livery (both real and fictitious) compared to other pre-grouping liveries

Edited September 29, 2020 by SDJR7F88

[Compound2632 27,012]

28 minutes ago, SDJR7F88 said:

Though my reference on the number of locos was referring to the number of models available on the market in the livery (both real and fictitious) compared to other pre-grouping liveries

That's true enough except for the anomaly that S&DJR blue, like M&GN brown, is a post-grouping as well as pre-grouping livery; all the models that have appeared in it authentically are post-1923 locomotives. 

 

Of course you can perfectly realistically have an S&DJR 6-wheel carriage alongside a blue 7F, if modelling Washford before the recent debacle.

[TonyMay 97]

15 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

My reference for the locomotive dates is D. Bradley & D. Milton, Somerset & Dorset Locomotive History (David & Charles, 1973). The reference to No. 16 at Manchester Central is from G. Dow, Midland Style (HMRS, 1975) while my reference for carriage building dates is R, Garner, The Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway Locomotive and Rolling Sock Registers 1886-1930 (The Somerset & Dorset Railway Trust, 2000)*. 

 

The following mapping applies:

• Hattons 6-wheel third: moderately close to the numerous SDJR 6-wheel thirds, built by Oldbury, Cravens, and Highbridge in the late 1880s/early 1890s; these were identical to the standard Midland 6-wheel third - the major difference is that these were a foot shorter than the Hattons carriages and had a turn-under / tumblehome to the ends.
• Hattons 6-wheel brake third: something like the five SDJR 6-wheel brake thirds built by Cravens except that these had only two passenger compartments; like the thirds these were a foot shorter and had tumblehome ends.
• Hattons 6-wheel lavatory composite: the SDJR had no lavatory 6-wheelers but quite a few centre-luggage composites; these were also a foot shorter than the Hattons carriages and had tumblehome ends. They also had a flatter roof profile - 10 ft radius arc rather than 8 ft.
• Hattons 6-wheel brake: really quite close to the SDJR 6-wheel brakes though these were 2 ft shorter; they did, however, have flat ends like the Hattons carriages. The SDJR brakes either had the flatter arc roofs or the later LSWR-style elliptical roof.
• Hattons 4-wheel third: no a good match; SDJR 4-wheel thirds were shorter - 22'6" is one recorded length - with only 4 compartments; flat ends and the lower arc roof.
• Hattons 4-wheel first or composite: there were a number of four-compartment firsts and composites like the restored No. 4, these were mostly 5" longer than the Hattons carriage and were all 6-wheeled; however there were some earlier 4-wheel composites that were very like but a bit shorter.
• Hattons 4-wheel third brake: there were some rather similar SDJR carriages but they seem mostly to have had the guard's lookout not at the end but inboard, with the guard's compartment door at the end; on the other hand there were some 4-wheel brakes with the lookouts at the end.

The 4-wheelers were all replaced by bogie carriages in the first decade of the 20th century if they had not already been replaced by 6-wheelers in the 1890s.

 

*Boy do I get fed up of typing that reference out!

 

You appear to be struggling with the basic concept of generic coaches.  I think the four wheel brake third (or "brake ferd" as the Hattons bloke calls them) would look good in SD&JR blue, regardless of actual authenticity.

[PhilJ W 83,367]

I thought the four wheel brake third looked very Great Eastern. And before anyone takes me to task over that they are generic coaches after all.

[sem34090 5,939]

Generic though they may be I think many of us intend using them to represent real vehicles from those companies. So if I were modelling the S&D in, say, 1915 I probably wouldn't want to make use of the 4-Wheelers nice though they'll look.

 

Does anyone know if there are were any Cambrian vehicles remotely like these? I was thinking a couple might be nice in GWR livery to represent ex-Cambrian types and add a bit of variety amongst the Ratio 4-Wheelers I'm also likely to use.

[GreenGiraffe22 1,775]

I get a lot of Southern vibes from the carriages which is good for me, as said previously ,being in a grouping or post-grouping livery the carriages could be from anywhere =)