Second Hand Hornby Locos - Are They Worth Buying?

[Artisan]

I recently started railway modelling and up till now I have modelled in N gauge only but I'm now looking to also include a OO layout. My questions is that not knowing much about OO locos I see online various Hornby locos being offered, in comparison to N gauge locos, at fairly low prices. Are they worth purchasing or should I be looking at other manufacturers?

 

Best regards,

Greg

 

[ianLMS]

The only advice i can give is to check the model number to see which Hornby range they are from to make it is a bargain. Their Railroad range is the low end of the market with less detail than their better, more expensive range. Always prime candidates for upgrading though, which i did to a dirt cheap Patriot.

[Pete the Elaner]

Older models have chassis & motors which are not in the same league as the newer range. Steam locos are tender powered with 2 axle rubber tyred drive. Diesels are also powered just by 2 axle rubber tyred drive. More modern diesels have all wheel drive with a lot more weight & many more pickups. More modern steam locos have more pickups, loco drive with a lot more weight.

 

Have you seen something in particular you like?

[Artisan]

17 minutes ago, ianLMS said:

The only advice i can give is to check the model number to see which Hornby range they are from to make it is a bargain. Their Railroad range is the low end of the market with less detail than their better, more expensive range. Always prime candidates for upgrading though, which i did to a dirt cheap Patriot.

Thank you for the information. I see other makes as in Triang and Airfix. Are these worth buying?

 

Greg

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

6 minutes ago, Artisan said:

Thank you for the information. I see other makes as in Triang and Airfix. Are these worth buying?

You are looking at very dated items there.

 

Triang progressively morphed into 'Triang-Hornby', then present 'Hornby'; Triang mechanism designs are from the 1950s.

 

Airfix GMR went out of business circa 1980.

 

Some people like this old stuff and are prepared to maintain and repair it to keep it running. It's available cheap because most of us have scampered off to enjoy the supply of vastly superior product from China that kicked in around 20 years ago. Your choice, careful research will make the right decision that best serves your interest...

[Robert Stokes]

I have bought some second-hand Hornby steam engines off Ebay and been pleased with them - but only modern ones. If the age is not given in the details you can always send a question to the seller asking about it. The higher the R number then the newer it will be.

 

My advice is not to bother with anything old engines - Airfix, Lima, Triang or Hornby-Dublo. On the other hand some of the wagons and coaches from Airfix are surprisingly good.

 

Robert

[Artisan]

18 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

You are looking at very dated items there.

 

Triang progressively morphed into 'Triang-Hornby', then present 'Hornby'; Triang mechanism designs are from the 1950s.

 

Airfix GMR went out of business circa 1980.

 

Some people like this old stuff and are prepared to maintain and repair it to keep it running. It's available cheap because most of us have scampered off to enjoy the supply of vastly superior product from China that kicked in around 20 years ago. Your choice, careful research will make the right decision that best serves your interest...

 

Thank you for the advice.  As I am on a budget i'm looking for pre-owned models. What manufacturers would you suggest I look for?

 

[Hitchin Junction]

I'm thinking about about acquiring a recent Hornby B1. Is that likely to be tender drive?  Or any other bad characteristics I should be aware of?

 

Tim

[The Johnster]

It’s a minefield like most secondhand markets, especially if you’re a newbie.  My first advice would be to buy brand new items under warranty, because:-

 

-They are better in detail, finish, and running quality than older toolings,

 

-You will be able to be certain that they have no damage or wear issues,

 

-Even the the best models wear out eventually; mechanical parts wear down, paintwork fades, and plastic goes brittle.  Brand new models will last longer.  

 

However, they cost more and if your pockets are anything like mine they are not bottomless.  Unless you are happy to do a lot of fitting and fettling, my secondary advice is to avoid anything described as Hornby Dublo, Triang, or Triang Hornby as incompatible with modern track or couplings and of low quality.  Also avoid Mainline, which includes some early Dapol locos from toolings bought when Mainline went under.  They have known and incurable chassis issues. 

 

Lima steam outline locos are not good buys either; body detail is reasonable and to scale but the chassis and mechanisms are best not discussed in polite company.  

 

Airfix were a little better, and ran better, but still very crude below the footplate

 

More recent Hornby, Bachmann, Oxford, Heljan, and Dapol are much better; look for the modern NEM type small tension lock couplers as a very general guide to acceptably recent production to current standards of realism and running. 

 

Earlier Hornby and Bachmann products, given away by larger couplings and including some Hornby ‘Railroad’ range items, are a mixed bag and need individual research.  

 

If you are modelling steam or earlier diesel periods, only recent production goods wagons from Bachmann and Oxford and some very recent Hornby feature separate handbrake levers, and while Airfix, Mainline, and Lima made some nice body toolings for vans and wagons, brake levers were crudely moulded and brake blocks out of alignment with the wheels; I’d call this unacceptable.  

 

Only Bachmann and Oxford make mineral wagons with the correct 9’ wheelbase; the others use generic 10’ chassis. 

 

Coaches have improved in terms of body thickness and correctly inset flush or near flush windows.  Avoid Triang Hornby mk3 HST coaches because they are a whole window short on scale length, and avoid the otherwise not bad Lima mk1s because of the body thickness and deep set windows.

 

Older couplings may have compatibility issues with current NEM types, and the distance between vehicles will be greater.  Retrofitting NEM mountings on vehicles not designed for them can be difficult, especially on bogies.  Earlier wheels are coarser, especially Lima, and are often plastic; metal run better and don’t distribute crud all over your track, something that traction tyres also do

 

Be prepared to have to do some work to any secondhand item to bring it up to a decent standard.  By and large you gets wotcha pays fer, and if it looks too good to be true, it is!  

 

[The Johnster]

1 minute ago, The Johnster said:

It’s a minefield like most secondhand markets, especially if you’re a newbie.  My first advice would be to buy brand new items under warranty, because:-

 

-They are better in detail, finish, and running quality than older toolings,

 

-You will be able to be certain that they have no damage or wear issues,

 

-Even the the best models wear out eventually; mechanical parts wear down, paintwork fades, and plastic goes brittle.  Brand new models will last longer.  

 

However, they cost more and if your pockets are anything like mine they are not bottomless.  Unless you are happy to do a lot of fitting and fettling, my secondary advice is to avoid anything described as Hornby Dublo, Triang, or Triang Hornby as incompatible with modern track or couplings and of low quality.  Also avoid Mainline, which includes some early Dapol locos from toolings bought when Mainline went under.  They have known and incurable chassis issues. 

 

Lima steam outline locos are not good buys either; body detail is reasonable and to scale but the chassis and mechanisms are best not discussed in polite company.  

 

Airfix were a little better, and ran better, but still very crude below the footplate

 

More recent Hornby, Bachmann, Oxford, Heljan, and Dapol are much better; look for the modern NEM type small tension lock couplers as a very general guide to acceptably recent production to current standards of realism and running.  Of course these command higher prices...

 

Earlier Hornby and Bachmann products, given away by larger couplings and including some current Hornby ‘Railroad’ range items, are a mixed bag and need individual research.  

 

If you are modelling steam or earlier diesel periods, only recent production goods wagons from Bachmann and Oxford and some very recent Hornby feature separate handbrake levers, and while Airfix, Mainline, and Lima made some nice body toolings for vans and wagons, brake levers were crudely moulded and brake blocks out of alignment with the wheels; I’d call this unacceptable.  

 

Only Bachmann and Oxford make mineral wagons with the correct 9’ wheelbase; the others use generic 10’ chassis. 

 

Coaches have improved in terms of body thickness and correctly inset flush or near flush windows.  Avoid Triang Hornby mk3 HST coaches because they are a whole window short on scale length, and avoid the otherwise not bad Lima mk1s because of the body thickness and deep set windows.

 

Older couplings may have compatibility issues with current NEM types, and the distance between vehicles will be greater.  Retrofitting NEM mountings on vehicles not designed for them can be difficult, especially on bogies.  Earlier wheels are coarser, especially Lima, and are often plastic; metal run better and don’t distribute crud all over your track, something that traction tyres also do

 

Be prepared to have to do some work to any secondhand item to bring it up to a decent standard.  By and large you gets wotcha pays fer, and if it looks too good to be true, it is!  

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, Artisan said:

I recently started railway modelling and up till now I have modelled in N gauge only but I'm now looking to also include a OO layout. My questions is that not knowing much about OO locos I see online various Hornby locos being offered, in comparison to N gauge locos, at fairly low prices. Are they worth purchasing or should I be looking at other manufacturers?

 

Best regards,

Greg

 

There's Hornby and there's Hornby, ranging from items little changed from 1950s/60s Tri-ang through to the latest hi-spec models.

 

As a newcomer, I'd strongly recommend only buying stuff you can actually see running until you get a feel for what's what and how to fix it if you need to.

 

John

Edited October 8, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[Legend]

I think the above is sound advice  ie maybe buy second hand stuff from a shop that you can see it running in.

 

There are a lot of good quality second hand models out there and I've had some real bargains from eBay, but then again I've also had the occasional duff one , that was not quite as buyer described.  But generally its a good source of models that are perhaps just not quite as good as the latest iterations of the model.  The previous version of the Hornby duchess for instance can be had for £70-£90, whereas I think a new one is £184 (maybe £160 discounted?) . Its really up to you though. If you must have the latest version second hands not for you, but there are lots of model railway people who are not so bothered about bells and whistles of latest model and are happy with models that are reasonably accurate . But then I still run and enjoy Triang Hornby, Hornby , Wrenn  and Lima !

 

 

[Hitchin Junction]

12 minutes ago, AlexHolt said:

 

The Hornby B1 is loco drive it came out around 2011.  I have both the Hornby and Bachmann B1s. The Hornby variant is better but I've had issues with quality control from them. 

 

Bad characterises:
Smoke box dart is flimsy and mine had fallen off in the box. Most the ones listed on ebay or secondhand in model shops I see are missing this.

Front of loco and rear of tender were crushed by the box being too tight for the model.

Plastic on tender is very thin and does bend when you pick it up. (Also part of the problem with box crushing the rear of tender)

 

I sent mine back once, second one I got wasn't much better so just decided to do the repairs myself. I got mine brand new. Motor runs perfectly fine, no issues at all but be prepared to do some detail repairs. 

 

 

 

Terrific. Thanks

 

Tim

[cypherman]

Hi all,

It is really horses for courses. Some here mentioned not buying Hornby Dublo engines( I include Wrenn engines in this list). I have latest count 23 H/D engines. All of them at least 60 years old. I can truly say that they run just as well if not better than a lot of the modern engines out there. Yes they are not as detailed as the latest engines. But the have a presence that the newer engines do not have. Yes some may need a little touching up or even fully repainting to make them look their best. But surely this is half the fun. But again in the end it all boils down to how much you can afford to spend.

Edited October 8, 2019 by cypherman

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

4 hours ago, Artisan said:

...As I am on a budget i'm looking for pre-owned models. What manufacturers would you suggest I look for?

Not knowing what you are interested in, it is difficult to be specific. But what I would think is a good guideline while finding your feet is to look for locos with DCC decoder sockets. These will be relatively modern, and not at bargain basement prices, but should give you a feel of what to look for. One exception, don't purchase anything from DJM: maker gone bust, future sparing likely to be problematic.

 

If you go to the top of the forum you will find the product and trades area, there are the major manufacturers for you to inspect. I have acquired and operate OO locos made by Bachmann, Dapol, Heljan, Hornby, Mainline, Oxford Rail, Rapido picking the subjects I am interested in from each maker's range and will buy more when they offer suitable products; and am happily anticipating purchases from Accurascale, Cavalex, Hattons, all relatively new kids on the block. A lot of choice in decent - and better - quality in short.

[Right Away]

It is useful to check a model's item code against the "Mazak Rot List" on this forum. Replacements for affected parts are available in many cases.

 

Another important decision is whether you are using, or thinking of moving on to Digital Control. Earlier, split-chassis locomotives will require additional work before a decoder can be fitted.

There are still bargains to be had on new locomotives but naturally these may not always be the classes you are looking for.

As the other members recommend, striving for as late a model as possible is probably your best route.

[hayfield]

18 hours ago, Artisan said:

I recently started railway modelling and up till now I have modelled in N gauge only but I'm now looking to also include a OO layout. My questions is that not knowing much about OO locos I see online various Hornby locos being offered, in comparison to N gauge locos, at fairly low prices. Are they worth purchasing or should I be looking at other manufacturers?

 

Best regards,

Greg

 

 

Greg

 

I see from your second and third postings you are looking for second hand locos. Until the emergence of the likes of Airfix (GMR), mainline Dapol etc Triang (laterly to become Hornby) and Hornby Dublo supplied rather basic but reliable and easy to service locos and rolling stock. The emergence of new players in the market brought to the trade far better detailed locos and rolling stock, however sometimes if an issue occurred some were nigh on un-repairable. Fast forward to today's offerings taking the body off can be a challenge let alone trying to service a loco. As for DCC this can muddy the water even further, though if you have a friend who can teach you the basics its a skill set which can be easily learnt

 

I guess the first step is to decide on what you actually want to model, namely era and location, the less you spend lowers the financial risk, but might be a false economy. An idea of what type of layout you wish to build may result in specific models being recommended

 

[DCB]

17 hours ago, The Johnster said:

"avoid anything described as Hornby Dublo, Triang, or Triang Hornby as incompatible with modern track or couplings and of low quality. "

  Re Locos

 

Wrenn are very high quality, use metal couplings compatible with Bachmann, Hornby etc and literally will last for years, even though already 40 years old.  Hornby Dublo likewise though with better couplers not compatible with Hornby.

They were designed for code 100 track, run very sweetly and are very robust.  Comparing a Wrenn Duchess to a 2010s Hornby Duchess like comparing a  1960 Rolls Royce to a 2019 Ford Fusion.   The Wrenn Duchess will pull 24 coaches  where the Hornby strugges with 8.

 

Triang and Triang Hornby  is fairly robust but won't run nicely on a lot of code 100 track.  The tender drive is awful and also powers some diesels.   Handy for bits for scratch building or for kit bodies but not RTR.  Avoid

 

Airfix GMR, Probably all died by now, Awful tender drive, Awful Steam chassis. Nice bodies still used by Hornby. Avoid.

 

Mainline should all have died by now, Awful chassis.  Need extensive bodgery /New chassis to make them run.  Avoid

 

Bachmann Ditto.  Older ones have  short life mechanisms.  Buy new, buy current production, not something already 10 years old sold as "New",  My last "New" Old stock lasted 30 minutes before a driving wheel came off.  Get some practice with super glue sticking the detail back on when you handle them a bit roughly.

 

Dapol, cheap and cheerful, bit crude avoid the 14XX and Dean goods as they don't run nicely for long., 

 

Hornby 1980- 2000, Crude.  OK for code 100 track, Thomas Range is fun. but basically Avoid

 

Hornby  2000 on  Fragile, nice detail, some chassis crumble to dust, spares difficult due to variation between batches of similar locos, Drive pinions seem to cause other people problems. Many need more loco weight and removal f tender pick ups to haul a decent train.   The one with traction tyres suffer with random derailments and run really badly when the tyres wear.   Personally I just can't keep up with trying to stick the details back on or fabricating new parts to replace the broken ones when I have a  derailment.  Buy new, buy recent releases, some "New" stock is amazingly old.

 

Hattons, their 14XX is the best loco I have. 

 

Yes I have a bad word to say about everything. I keep the Bachmann WD on shed and pull 30 wagon trains with a 1960s Honrby Dublo 8F.  I keep a Hornby King on shed and use a 1950s Hornby Dublo Castle to haul 10 coach expresses.  Horses for Courses!  The Bachmann 64XX and 45XX are nice, Hattons 14XX nicer.  

 

I would buy new from a reputable dealer, Cheltenham Model Centre are great, they are my nearest model shop, but we had a good visit to Paignton Model Centre, and a thoroughly unpleasant one to one well known one in Cornwall or Kernow as the locals call it. 

 

 Leave the Second Hand for impecunious bodgers like me.

 

 

[John Tomlinson]

Apologies if this has been said before, but I think that if you're buying secondhand you should be prepared to do some work on what you buy. There's a reason for that big discount!

 

This may not be necessary, but as like as not will be required. So if you aren't comfortable about whipping the body off and have a rummage around inside, then stick to new from a shop or dealer, so that you can land any problems back on their doorstep.

 

My personal experience is that you can save a packet by going for pre-owned items on the likes of ebay, plus have access to older items no longer available new. I quite like messing around with locos and their mechanisms, and there's a lot of help available on here if you're facing something tricky. You can start by looking at the relevant thread for the loco when it was introduced, usually under the manufacturer's section, which will often give some useful pointers.

 

John.

[Artisan]

I have seen a loco for sale that says it is made by Wrenn. As a manufacturer are they any good?

[Steamport Southport]

Hornby Dublo, Triang and Wrenn are best left alone unless you are a collector. Avoid like the plague. Personally they wouldn't touch the sides of a bin. Utter cr@p that only have a passing resemblance to the real thing. It's 2019 not 1959, and it's not rocket science to realise that something which hasn't been available for fifty years is not going to be very good. Would you use a fifty year old car as your main one?

 

Firstly buy a copy of this. Available in WH Smith and most model shops, or direct from the publishers. It is a guide to RTR models and points out the good and the bad.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/435483/model_rail_magazine_bmt2019_britain_s_model_trains_2019_edition_from_model_rail_magazine_276_pages_with_rev/stockdetail.aspx

 

Stick with modern models. Keep an eye on the bargain section in places like Hattons, Rails Of Sheffield and Kernow. Look in the Bargain thread on this website.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/125236-bargain-hunters-mark-2/page/103/#comments

 

If you are buying second hand then stick to reputable shops such as those above. You are still covered if something goes wrong with the transaction.

 

 

 

Jason

 

[OhOh]

With a bit of digging around this website you could get some info on dates of production of various Hornby models, along with historic part numbers and some service sheets. Probably only useful though if those selling 2nd hand are 100% certain of what they're offering, which I think is not always the case on ebay in particular.

[Steamport Southport]

6 minutes ago, Artisan said:

I have seen a loco for sale that says it is made by Wrenn. As a manufacturer are they any good?

 

Nope. Over priced rubbish. Unless you get a mint one for the cabinet. Leave to collectors.

 

What is it that you actually want as I could point out a newer version which would be cheaper and far more reliable?

 

As an example. This.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/378098/wrenn_w2218_po08_class_4mt_standard_2_6_4t_80033_in_br_lined_black_pre_owned_missing_front_coup/stockdetail.aspx

 

Or this. I know they aren't the same locomotive. Point still stands.

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/40067/31-614-Bachmann-V3-Steam-Tank-Locomotive-number-67646

 

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

A good dealer is a mahoosive boon; if you have one, frequent the shop and strike up a friendship.  My local shop is first class, and has a second hand section.  Nothing goes out the door until it is track tested in your presence and you can check the slow running on the test track yourself.  I am very lucky to have it, and aware that you may not be so lucky and reliant on online ordering or 'Bay.  

 

An idea of what sort of layout you have in mind, what trains you want to run, and the period you are interested in would help us to point you in the direction of reliable runners and good models.  For a low budget layout the usual recommendation is for some sort of shunting setup, but of course this means small locos and it is often the smaller locos that do not run smoothly because of the paucity of pickups and lack of weight, especially the older models.  Hornby have been making 0-4-0 chassised locos for years, but it is only the recent productions that really run well and older models are crude, intended for children's starter sets.  'Smokey Joe' is frequently on 'Bay for very low prices, but older example are not good runners unless you are after the world land speed record; they 'whizz' a bit!

 

[The Johnster]

22 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Nope. Over priced rubbish. Unless you get a mint one for the cabinet. Leave to collectors.

 

What is it that you actually want as I could point out a newer version which would be cheaper and far more reliable?

 

As an example. This.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/378098/wrenn_w2218_po08_class_4mt_standard_2_6_4t_80033_in_br_lined_black_pre_owned_missing_front_coup/stockdetail.aspx

 

Or this. I know they aren't the same locomotive. Point still stands.

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/40067/31-614-Bachmann-V3-Steam-Tank-Locomotive-number-67646

 

 

 

Jason

Wrenn are generically the old Hornby Dublo from 50 years ago, in die cast metal and with very crude detailing and finishing.  Stamped motion, no underframe detail, flangeless centre drivers, overscale handrails.  They are expensive because they are expensive to produce, the thing that drove HD out of business in the first place, and while they have a retro charm and are bombproof reliable, they are really more toys than models.  Some Dapol rolling stock is also generically HD having been marketed by Wrenn and the toolings acquired by Dapol.b 

 

The BR 2-6-4T Steamport has highlighted shows the problem very well.  If you compare it to the current Bachmann model of the same loco, the Bachmann has better detail all round, brake and other detail below the footplate, detail inside the cab (on the Wrenn the cab is full of the massive ringfield motor), sprung buffers that don't look like mushrooms, glazed cab windows, and probably a load of other improvements as well.  The Wrenn is probably more powerful, but I doubt it can be made to run more smoothly at low speeds than the Bachmann, and it is this that is the most important performance factor for my purposes.  If you are working to a budget you are probably not interested in DCC, but the Baccy is compatible and has a circuit board to plug the chip into, and the Wrenn needs major modification.

 

If you are going to be buying secondhand Hornby Dublo, beware that some will be 3-rail models that will not run on modern track at all and will simply short circuit everything.  2-rail conversion is possible but probably not worth the cost of parts even if you can do it yourself.

Edited October 9, 2019 by The Johnster