Worth Valley Passenger Workings

[Aire Head]

Just come across this picture of a passenger train on the Worth Valley Line in the 1960s. 

 

Can anyone identify what kind of stock is in use here, if possible what coach types and wether they are available in 4mm

 

Currently space starved at the moment and the Worth Valley Line has potential given what I already have but would like to get it right!

[Steamport Southport]

LMS suburbans of a similar type to those made by Hornby. They look period three.

 

The nearest one is a Push Pull driving third trailer. But not being used as one even though the locomotive is fitted. Notice the "sunshades" on the windows at the end,

 

Second carriage looks like a Composite. Last one probably a Brake Third.

 

These are vaguely the correct type. You would have to alter one of the brakes into a driving trailer.

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/64168/R4927-Hornby-Sovereign-BR-Midland-Suburban-Coach-Pack

 

Plenty of details on these on the Comet website.

 

http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Aire Head]

24 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

LMS suburbans of a similar type to those made by Hornby. They look period three.

 

The nearest one is a Push Pull driving third trailer. But not being used as one even though the locomotive is fitted. Notice the "sunshades" on the windows at the end,

 

Second carriage looks like a Composite. Last one probably a Brake Third.

 

These are vaguely the correct type. You would have to alter one of the brakes into a driving trailer.

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/64168/R4927-Hornby-Sovereign-BR-Midland-Suburban-Coach-Pack

 

Plenty of details on these on the Comet website.

 

http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/

 

 

 

 

Jason

Thank you.

 

Would a composite have been likely on a route like the Worth Valley? I wouldn't have thought sufficient demand existed!

 

I had suspected the last one was a push pull trailer. If these are the same as the Hornby ones does that make them the same as the Dapol staniers as I already have a 3 coach set of them?

[Zunnan]

Those look like converted corridor stock to me, not suburbans. I'm pretty sure these were covered in this topic.

 

 

For ease of modelling you could just push pull adapt the Hornby Stanier corridor brake third with a new cab end and open out the side windows where the duckets are, and use a corridor third instead of an open third. But if you're up for kitbuilding the parts are all available through Wizard.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Zunnan

[Steamport Southport]

Wow. Where did they come from?

 

Never seen them mentioned previously. I was probably thrown by the driving end.

 

 

As for First Class. Yes, even a branchline would often have First Class accommodation as you wouldn't have the upper class wanting to travel with the oiks. And vice versa.

 

The Dapol Staniers are lavatory stock. You may have got them on the KWVR occasionally as they were originally built for trains such as Leeds/Manchester/Liverpool. Hence the need of toilets. Then downgraded when they were replaced by corridor stock.

 

Date of the photo must be before August 1961 as the locomotive was transferred to the Southern Region.

 

http://brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=114716&loco=41326

 

 

 

Jason

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

11 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

Would a composite have been likely on a route like the Worth Valley? I wouldn't have thought sufficient demand existed!...

Those who had a first class ticket had to be accommodated. A little stroll around Haworth and Oxenhope will reveal some very substantial older houses. The mill owners lived fairly near their operations, and that branch was of significant value to all the residents, especially in winter when using the roads could be 'inadvisable' for days. Which in part was what led to the preservation as the K&WVR.

[Steamport Southport]

Had a little look in a pocket book I've got about the KWVR.

 

No mention of rolling stock apart from the preservation era. But the branch engines were MR 0-6-0Ts and MR 0-4-4TS until replaced by Ivatt 2-6-2Ts in the 1950s.

 

The last 0-4-4T was 58066.

Ivatt 2MTs were 41273, 41325, 41326 and 41327 all push pull fitted.

Freight was mainly handled by 3F 0-6-0s 43178 and 43586 with 4F 44045*.

 

Visitors included Hughes Crab 2-6-0 42757 and various Black Fives on holiday excursions. Other visitors include GNR N1 0-6-2Ts, Stanier/Lemon 2P 0-4-4T, LMS 8F 2-8-0s, Ivatt 4MT 2-6-0s and L&YR 2-4-2Ts.

 

DMUs worked the branch for the last two years until passenger trains were withdrawn.

 

*I think that might be a typo for 44055

 

 

Jason

Edited October 9, 2019 by Steamport Southport

[PhilipT]

The coaches are -ex LMS stock converted by BR for motor, ie pull & push, working. The middle one is a D1999 open second and at each end is a D1851 corridor brake second so there are driving trailers at each end - don't know why. Gangwayed stock was needed for the conductor/guard because of de-staffing of stations. Both types are available as Comet kits although one side of the brakes will need an extra window and droplight at the driving end. More info is in two articles I wrote some years ago:

 

LMS Journal No 12 for LMS motor fitted stock in general

Midland Record No 35 for Worth Valley motor trains

 

Both published by Wild Swan.

 

Attachment covers an error that I have found in those two articles.

 

Phil Tattershall

LMS D1999 motor conversions - a corrrection.doc

Edited October 14, 2019 by PhilipT

[Aire Head]

Apologies of this has been covered before but when were the conversions made? Also what was used prior to the converted stock?

[Compound2632]

@Aire Head, your best bet is to get hold of Phil Tattershall's articles in LMS Journal and Midland Record as mentioned above, although I fear they may now both be out of print. Second-hand copies may be available. They really are full of every detail you could imagine.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Compound2632

[Steamport Southport]

Titfield don't seem to have those issues. It might be worth dropping them an email though.

 

https://www.titfield.co.uk/Wild-Swan/LMS-Journal.htm

 

Otherwise try your local heritage railway or the Vintage Carriage Trust (they often have them). Ebay and Amazon as well.

 

http://www.vintagecarriagestrust.org/magazines.htm

 

 

 

Jason

[PhilipT]

On 15/10/2019 at 22:19, Aire Head said:

Apologies of this has been covered before but when were the conversions made? Also what was used prior to the converted stock?

D1851 converted 29 September 1954, D1999 converted 4 February 1956, both types at Wolverton. Prior to that it was LMS and BR (LMS type) standards with converted Midland stock used earlier still, but this sentence is a gross simplification since stock from about 20 different Diagrams was used over the 25 years or so of motor operation.

 

Phil

Edited October 21, 2019 by PhilipT