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sem34090

A concise guide to LT Stock dates?

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This is something I've been working on for a friend, the aim being to have a relatively concise document showing almost (I've left out most departmental stuff, and a few other things) all LT (and constituent) locos and multiple units and when they operated. This is quite simply because they ask me questions about this an awful lot, so I figured it'd be best just to give them something which (hopefully!) says everything.

Operating Eras (LT).docx

I have posted it here primarily so that I can get feedback and make corrections!

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Well, thankful as I am for the positive ratings and downloads, I was really hoping that someone would correct any mistakes I have made!

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Certainly a very useful document to have at hand.  How precise one wishes to be in creating any form of historical record is always a moot point and I have no argument at all with using just a year in this instance.

 

A few thoughts:

 

Q-stock was a very mixed bag.  G-stock became Q23 stock the last cars of which ran in 1971 with 4248 (originally 4148) being the leading car of the last Q-stock train in passenger service 27/08/1971.

K stock became Q27 stock with 4311 and 4361 included as cars 4 and 6 respectively of that final train and others surviving until earlier in 1971.  

L stock became Q31 stock with 08812 running as car 3 in the final train and others again lasting into 1971

M and N stock cars jointly became Q35 stock with N-stock cars 08063 and 08076 in the final train as cars 2 and 5 but no M stock survived into 1971.  

 

R stock can be broken down further into its respective builds. The first R stock entered service in 1949 when Q38 cars were converted to R38 so R stock starting in 1938 is incorrect.  These conversions ran with new-build R47 cars and a further batch of conversions two years later ran with R49 new-build cars.  The R59 aluminium cars did not enter service until 1959.

 

Standard stock survived in service on the Bakerloo Line until 1973 when the last of the "58 trailers" of 1927 vintage numbered in the 705xx series (ex-75xx series) were withdrawn and replaced by 1938 trailers rendered surplus from the Northern Line.  These cars were mostly formed into the three-car units though a few were in four-car units meaning there could be two in a train and some three-car units had a 1938 trailer all the time meaning there could be no standard stock car in the train.  70518 and 70545 were also converted to have end doors giving six per side against the normal four.  

 

Standard stock cars (technically reclassified as 1960 stock but definitely of 1920s origin, I believe from the 1927 build) also ran on the Central Line from 1961 until 1977 as pairs of trailers between the new-build 1960 stock motor cars.  They were then replaced by single trailer cars of 1938 stock (again technically reclassified as 1960 stock) which ran with the 1960 motors until they were withdrawn in 1994.  

 

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One of the Met British Westinghouse camel back locos (No 1) was modified to operate as a departmental loco on the GN&C (Met) branch.  It was based at Drayton Park depot.

 

It operated on the line as No 21 (latterly as L33 under the LPTB).  It would have become surplus to requirements in 1939, when the GN&C line came under Northern Line control and henceforth started operating Standard tube stock.  It lingered on until it was broken up on site at Drayton Park in 1948.

 

So, one example of the type existed in operation for some considerable time after its nine stablemates were consigned to oblivion during the early part of the 1920s.

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I will update the document accordingly.

 

Regarding cars such as those used between the '60 stock DMs, I am ignoring those for now and sticking with withdrawals of complete units. I'm also ignoring departmentals for now.

Edited by sem34090

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Couple of corrections

 

V stock (all 1904-13) cars operated till about 1940

W stock (bogie stock with MW motor cars) there was a working until 1942

H&C 1905 stock I believe ran till about 1940 (some was reintroduced to cover delayed deliveries of P stock).

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Thanks to you both - I will be publishing a revised edition at some point (another forum member has been helping with this), when I remember to do it!

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And, I suppose you need the CSLR 4W electric locos too, if you haven’t got them already.

 

And, your date for W&C looks too rather early; wasn’t it c1896, rather than 1890?

Edited by Nearholmer
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I realised pretty quickly that there were a lot of gaps, and wasn't sure about the W&C date myself - Thanks Kevin. :)

 

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A few more corrections, specifically with regard to the ex-Metropolitan stock:-

 

The Circle stock was in two batches - 1913 stock and 1921 stock

The S stock was a single train, formed of the stock that had been the 1919 Experimental stock, originally as a complete train with motor coaches, later with the motor coaches demoted to trailers and the set sandwiched between the two 1925 stock motor coaches.

The T stock is in two groups - the Met's MV stock, which had vacuum brakes and ran with converted Dreadnought stock trailer cars, and the MW stock, which had air brakes and trailer cars built for the purpose.

The M and N sets were conversions from the steam hauled Bogie stock, M being 8-car and N being 6-car.

 

Elsewhere, the W&C was not part of the London Underground system until into the 1990s, when it was transferred from LSWR/SR/BR ownership. Its current stock, although to the 1990 TS design was procured by BR, and only passed into LU ownership with the transfer.

The 1935 stock was ultimatey integrated into the 1938 stock fleet, after modifications, and the 1938TS fleet was itself augmented by the almost identical 1949TS.

 

Jim

 

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15 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

Its current stock, although to the 1990 TS design was procured by BR, and only passed into LU ownership with the transfer.

True but the stock was an opportunistic add-on to the LT order in the full expectation that ownership and operation of the line was about to be transferred to them.  No-one else was building tube stock at the time and the 1940 cars were in urgent need of replacement.  

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They certainly needed a full re-wire, if nothing else - the insulation on the wiring was utterly perished, and fell-off in flakes if disturbed.

Edited by Nearholmer
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And IIRC they were full of asbestos.

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I am including the W&C because these days it is part of LUL, and even historically it could be argued that it had far more in common with LT's Tube Lines than with the wider LSWR/Southern Railway/Southern Region.

 

I promise to update the table, but it will be some time yet as there are lots of other things taking priority.

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