Q&A - The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019

[BMacdermott]

12 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Thanks again for doing this poll.

 

A suggestion for consideration for 2020, maybe consider splitting “modern image” from Post Privatisation. Modern image covers a range of c1955 to 2020, a period of 65 years, where as Steam locomotives gets 5 categories in a period of 45 years.

That said, I would suggest putting post-privatisation into a combined lump of passenger  and non-passenger vehicles to group it together, it was odd seeing a Met Cam 790xx in the same group as a class 195. Not being too aufait as I need to be with modern wagon codes, I couldn't request anything at all, but if they were grouped together in this epoch, it would narrow the research down a bit.

 

As last year, my offer to assist if the poll team if it needs volunteers still stands.

 

Hello adb

 

Many thanks for the comments.

 

There are many ways in which The Poll listings could be presented and we have drafted many over the years...and another is already on the 2020 Agenda. We were going to split 1964-Current Freight into 1964-1994 and 1995-Current. However, it made more sense (this year) to split General Railway Service into two as it was almost at 'maximum permitted load'.

 

I will certainly put your splitting idea on the Agenda, but please bear in mind that we try to keep The Poll in a 'standard format' as far as practical so that regular voters can easily find their way around. Would you like to submit some worked listing suggestions to us? You might see something that we can't. That is where your 'volunteering' offer would make good sense.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

[BMacdermott]

23 minutes ago, Downer said:

No big deal, but I was surprised by the omission of the streamlined B17.

 

Hello Downer

 

Thanks for writing. Could I ask you to see the above post in respect of submitting suggestions? As I think I noted in an earlier post, LNER Locos category is already running at 'maximum permitted load'. We already have one loco on the Agenda and a couple more have been mentioned in this thread.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

[BMacdermott]

19 minutes ago, Waveydavey said:

No class 107 DMU.

OK they did have a fairly small area of operation but no worse than the 117 that Lima did and Bachmann are working on.

 

Hello waveydavey

 

I'm sure there is a good reason why it isn't there but give me a few days to consult with The Team and I'll get back to you here.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

[Captain Kernow]

I do applaud this structured approach to the 'national wish list' and the good work of everyone involved.

 

I'm wondering whether enough time has passed, given the wish lists of previous recent years, to establish any correlation with high scorers on these wish lists and manufacturers announcements over a similar corresponding time period?

 

[Robin Brasher]

LSWR K10 'Small Hopper' is in the survey but it has already been produced by 00 Works and is reviewed in the October 2019 Railway Modeller.

[BMacdermott]

28 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

I do applaud this structured approach to the 'national wish list' and the good work of everyone involved.

 

I'm wondering whether enough time has passed, given the wish lists of previous recent years, to establish any correlation with high scorers on these wish lists and manufacturers announcements over a similar corresponding time period?

 

 

Hello Captain

 

Many thanks... yes there is. Give me a while to dig out the info and I'll  get back.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

[BMacdermott]

29 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

LSWR K10 'Small Hopper' is in the survey but it has already been produced by 00 Works and is reviewed in the October 2019 Railway Modeller.

 

Hello Robin

 

Thanks for this but OO Works is not on our list of (what might be called) 'major' manufacturers. The line of distinction is somewhat blurred, but our view is that OO Works models are more towards very short run and virtually 'made to order' as opposed to being more readily available on-line or physically on shop shelves.

 

We make note of the model in The Guide notes...so people can decide for themselves whether to vote for it or not.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

[BMacdermott]

Hello everyone

 

Congratulations to Dapol, Rails and Locomotion Models on the announcement of the SECR D Class 4-4-0. We wish them every success with the project.

 

The loco has always been High Polling but entered The Top 50 in 2018. It came in at overall position equal 22nd.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

[BMacdermott]

2 hours ago, Waveydavey said:

No class 107 DMU.

OK they did have a fairly small area of operation but no worse than the 117 that Lima did and Bachmann are working on.

 

Hello again Waveydavey

 

The Team has been able to come back to me much quicker than expected.

 

We can't recall an actual reason for it not appearing, but it might date back to when the Class 108 model was introduced and a view was taken that it might 'spin-off' from that. It is now on the 2020 Agenda for you.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

[phil gollin]

1 hour ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello everyone

 

Congratulations to Dapol, Rails and Locomotion Models on the announcement of the SECR D Class 4-4-0. We wish them every success with the project.

 

The loco has always been High Polling but entered The Top 50 in 2018. It came in at overall position equal 22nd.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

 

HOORAY !

 

So, we should all vote for a "D1" as the chassis will be available.

 

.

[Trains4U]

I note that the KFA warflat is included in the wishlist.

 

This was announced by us on the 1st of June this year, is available for pre-order and is due to go into tooling in the next couple of months.

 

 

[BMacdermott]

Hello Trains4U

 

Guilty as charged!

 

Apologies for this. The category had been reviewed early on during our schedule and your announcement managed to somehow 'slip our net'. It has been removed from the 2020 data.

 

The upshot for you is that you will 'get a mention' in The 2019 Results to account for the listing hiccup. The item was High Polling in 2018 - so we wish you all the best with the project.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

[mdvle]

3 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

We can't recall an actual reason for it not appearing, but it might date back to when the Class 108 model was introduced and a view was taken that it might 'spin-off' from that. It is now on the 2020 Agenda for you.

 

Could that also be a reason for the Class 118 not appearing?

 

In either case I would point out that a lack of polling interest (the result of being removed from the poll) could indicate to the manufacturer that there is no interest in a "spin-off" model and hence the model never appears.

[BMacdermott]

Hello mdvle

 

Indeed, yes. The Class 117 was listed with Class 118. 

 

We often list items 'combined' with a note that that is how a maker might view a subject for production. When one is announced, we will almost always delete the other - unless there is a very specific stated reason in The Guide. We often add 'Poll Team Notes' to refer to such instances. We originally took out the Class 116 also, but that has since gone back in (as Class 116/125).

 

It's a bit like drawing a map of a sand dune...in the dark, in a Force 9 gale!

 

And don't forget that The Poll is only a part of what market information makers get to their own offices.

 

We have to make some compromises otherwise (such as) our listing of Class 313/314/315 & 507/508 would appear as five separate items. And SECR Wagons, Vans & Brake Vans would probably make a Poll of their own! And then how would we cope with vehicles that had gangways when made, but taken off later in life? Etc etc etc.

 

We have to take an 'overall view' of what seems to be a reasonable method of listing and that varies slightly year by year. We cannot make 'hard & fast rules'; we have tried that, and it doesn't work.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

Edited October 15, 2019 by BMacdermott
Word added.

[tomparryharry]

Thanks to Brian & team for another comprehensive wishlist.  I'm most probably being a bit thick, but what is the protocol for putting items on the wishlist in the first place.

 

I've probably asked this before, but the mind sometimes plays tricks, and I've been asleep since then.

 

Cheers,

Ian.

[drt7uk]

17 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

From the first post:

 

"What’s new for The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019?

We have deleted the Industrial and Underground categories to give us more space for ‘core content’ and we now list many more items that voters have requested"

 

This is a shame. I hope they bring them back for the 2020 poll. It's not like BR or the Big Four are under represented.

[Denbridge]

Could I request that you consider adding the LBSC/SR Baltic tank in 2020? I did raise this around the time of the last poll. I think this could be popular.  You already list the N15x rebuilds.

[mdvle]

2 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

We often list items 'combined' with a note that that is how a maker might view a subject for production. When one is announced, we will almost always delete the other - unless there is a very specific stated reason in The Guide. We often add 'Poll Team Notes' to refer to such instances. We originally took out the Class 116 also, but that has since gone back in (as Class 116/125).

 

[edit]

 

We have to make some compromises otherwise (such as) our listing of Class 313/314/315 & 507/508 would appear as five separate items. And SECR Wagons, Vans & Brake Vans would probably make a Poll of their own! And then how would we cope with vehicles that had gangways when made, but taken off later in life? Etc etc etc.

 

I understand the decision making, because to a certain extent you are correct in grouping models that are so close in design that someone undertaking to make a model may wish to take advantage in the tooling stage.

 

On the other hand, history is showing that when a company announced one version of those "families" they don't really seem to be intending to take advantage of those similarities, for whatever reason, to make the rest of the family.

 

2 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

And don't forget that The Poll is only a part of what market information makers get to their own offices.

 

This seems a bit old fashioned to me though.  Yes, Hornby/Bachmann/Dapol and maybe the hobby shops have other sources for market information but as we have seen China has enabled individuals to enter the market by dealing with China directly.  Those individuals are unlikely to have access market information in the same way that the existing big ones do, and thus the poll can likely be their only source of market information.

 

Regardless, you have my thanks for doing what is in many ways a thankless task. 

[BMacdermott]

57 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

Thanks to Brian & team for another comprehensive wishlist.  I'm most probably being a bit thick, but what is the protocol for putting items on the wishlist in the first place.

 

I've probably asked this before, but the mind sometimes plays tricks, and I've been asleep since then.

 

Cheers,

Ian.

 

Hello Ian

 

Thanks for writing.

 

As noted in other posts, we don't really have 'fixed rules' - rather more 'general guidelines'. Our cut-off date is 'fixed' but that precludes us making 'quality judgments'. We try to get at least something from every railway company apart from going right back to Era 1 days.  We look at what has been made and keep an eye on how things tend to move on.

 

We try to balance items across the regions/railways; hence we now have Milk Tank Trucks  (for example) from all the Big Four. Catering has been balanced.

 

Apart from that, it was based back on the old MREmag days of Pat Hammond (2011-ish) when we were tasked to 'rationalise' The Poll content. So far, it has worked fairly well with very few items being announced that we haven't listed (in some form or other). Of course, we listen to what voters send in as suggestions - but we can only haul a 'maximum permitted load' and that is about 820 items, with max of 70 in any one category.

 

If you have any queries on what to suggest, we are always happy to listen or provide a direction.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

[BMacdermott]

15 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

Could I request that you consider adding the LBSC/SR Baltic tank in 2020? I did raise this around the time of the last poll. I think this could be popular.  You already list the N15x rebuilds.

 

Hello Denbridge

 

Thanks for writing. I can recall it being discussed but it was discounted for some reason. Let me put it back on the Agenda and we'll see what happens. Generally speaking - and this adds  to what I posted above to Ian - we take the view that the further back in history we go, the less votes an item will get, unless it is something 'famous' like the Stirling Single etc.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

[Ollie K]

Very new here but just wanted to say thanks to the team who pull this enormous effort together. What a task! Eternally got my fingers crossed for LNER streamlined Silver Jubilee / Coronation stock at a price I wouldn't need a loan shark for...

[The Johnster]

Very happy with this poll which has enabled me to ask for just about everything I want (the Collett 31xx can wait til next year).   Given that some of this is a bit esoteric, the inclusion of Diagram N and A44 auto trailers is very satisfying!

 

My thanks and appreciation for your sterling efforts on my worthless behalf, gentlemen...

[BMacdermott]

Hello Johnster

 

Thanks for the comments which are appreciated...and we in turn appreciate your contributions to RMweb. 'Worthless'? Certainly not!!

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

[BMacdermott]

Hello everyone

 

This is a big thank you to all those who have so far downloaded the Poll Posters from the original posting. Much appreciated!

 

If you have any photos of how you have displayed them, we'd like to see them (either here or by PM or to The Poll email address).

 

Many thanks

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

[BMacdermott]

15 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

I understand the decision making, because to a certain extent you are correct in grouping models that are so close in design that someone undertaking to make a model may wish to take advantage in the tooling stage.

 

On the other hand, history is showing that when a company announced one version of those "families" they don't really seem to be intending to take advantage of those similarities, for whatever reason, to make the rest of the family.

 

This seems a bit old fashioned to me though.  Yes, Hornby/Bachmann/Dapol and maybe the hobby shops have other sources for market information but as we have seen China has enabled individuals to enter the market by dealing with China directly.  Those individuals are unlikely to have access market information in the same way that the existing big ones do, and thus the poll can likely be their only source of market information.

 

Regardless, you have my thanks for doing what is in many ways a thankless task. 

 

Hello again mdvle

 

A small clarification...We don't run The Poll for the benefit of the manufacturers.

 

The Purpose clearly states that it is for modellers and collectors to indicate what they would realistically buy if made. It enables us all to get an overview of how those who respond are thinking.

 

The makers have their own research to hand (although I take your point that some smaller ones might not - but they all have access to magazines and forums where trends can be tracked). They all no doubt accrue some benefit and if the 'cottage industry' side of the hobby read between the lines, they can no doubt identify gaps where they can sneak in.

 

We did - very early on - (lightly) wonder if the results could be made 'chargeable'. However, we soon came to the conclusion that the makers  wouldn't be able to afford the man-hours we put in and took the 'open access approach'. Many volunteers give their time at shows and working on heritage railways. If the makers benefit, so be it; we modellers probably benefit too.

 

We do our best to split items as far as practical... the SDJR Small and Large Boiler 7Fs and  Caprotti Black 5s being cases in point. S&D 7F 53807 really needs its own listing as it had a unique boiler mount, which would require significant tooling (so I was told by the late and great Merl Evans at Bachmann). Other examples are the B16/1, B16/2 and B16/3 and the Decorative Valance Clauds.

 

However, J67 and J69 are 'combined'...but that hides a myriad of variations that only the most detailed of research would find. 

 

As we have often remarked: it's horses for courses.

 

Brian (on behalf of  The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)