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Having mentioned, in a couple of posts, my efforts with some tired Triang 0-6-0s, I thought I'd better post a thread. I've already dealt with the Panniers, aside from making a repro chimney cap for one of the good bodies. However, it's a quiet Sunday morning in the shop so I'm making a start on the Jinties. 

 

First pic shows the bodies as they currently stand. Back to front we have:

 

1) Quite a good, probably c1970 side fixing screw example. Probably the archetypal R52. Just a bit of wear to the BR crests and retaining all its steps and buffers. 

 

2) A horrible, early 70s maroon thing that's suffered some sort of solvent attack to its smokebox door (that'll teach it to try dealing anthracite on Thomas's turf). Ghastly standard of finish which appears to be factory. 

 

3) An early polystyrene, chimney screw fixing example. Pretty rough. Cracked in several places, missing a set of steps and a chunk of front buffer beam. Realistically not worth repairing, but, being so early and matching one of the chassis I have (not the one it came with) I'm going to have a crack at restoring it by grafting in bits of the maroon horror. Maybe I'll learn something. 

 

4) A wonderfully bent and astoundingly brittle cellulose acetate piece. I think this is for the bin, but I'll have it's metal buffers before consigning it to oblivion. It'll donate its chassis to No 3, above. 

 

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Moving on to the chassis, these are laid out as per the bodies they came with. Back to front we have:

 

1) A late 60s/early 70s, pre-plated wheel rims chassis with complete but disconnected Synchrosmoke unit. Almost certainly original to its attached body, this will be getting stripped, cleaned and lubricated but doesn't appear to require major surgery. I'll be taking the Synchrosmoke drive to eliminate drag. I dislike smoke units but won't actually be discarding it completely. 

 

2) A weirdly bodged hybrid of an early screwed together chassis, rewheeled with 70s plated rim wheels, and pickups on the left (as opposed to all my other chassis which have them on the right). Later metal couplings have been epoxied(?) into place instead of the original open loop jobs. I'm wondering if the reversed pickups might mean it was originally under a Diesel Shunter which, IIRC, used the Jinty chassis back to front. Definitely not original to the maroon body it came with. 

 

3) A fairly normal, early 70s, plated wheel example, with no smoke. The only notable thing here is that the motor has no oil pads as per X03, but carries a brass worm as per X04. Again, definitely not original to the chimney screw body it came with. 

 

4) A surprisingly little bodged screw together chassis, complete with coarse, solid backed wheels and open loop couplings. Likely original to the bananaed acetate body. This one will go under the (hopefully) repaired early poly body. Again, it doesn't look to need much more than stripping, cleaning and oiling. 

 

 

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I don't have a proper, scientific method for checking motor magnets, but this looks OK. 

 

Incidentally, can anyone reassure me that the fibrous wadding in Synchrosmoke units isn't the asbestos it so closely resembles? 

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I'm intrigued by the fairly rough milling job that's been done inside the early 70s bodies. When I found it in the maroon horror I assumed it was aftermarket butchery, but the decent black body has it too, if anything even rougher. The pre-smoke bodies lack this feature. I assume it was a factory mod to accommodate the smoke unit, adopted because it was cheaper than retooling the moulding. 

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Here's a link to a short video of the first Jinty running after its service. I'm really pleased with how smooth and controllable it is on a breadboarded Roger Amos controller. Top speed like a Triang tank loco, and a crawl like something very crawly indeed. 

 

This one has some sentimental appeal for me. The first model railway locomotive that I ever encountered, and recognised as such, was a black Triang Jinty, with smoke, purchased by my father c1968-69. After 50 odd years, off and on, of unsuccessfully striving for something better, here I am, back where it all started. It's quite liberating in a way :D. https://youtu.be/Cz8tRONc3BA

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31 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

Ironically the most acurate livery is that of the old, warped cellulose body - plain black.

Indeed. I do think the lined, mixed traffic black suits the loco though, however fictional. I can live with it in what is, after all, a toy. 

 

I wonder if any of the preserved Jinties has ever been considered for renumbering as 47606 and lining out :D.

 

Here's today's final chassis, the one from the acetate beastie, on the test oval following servicing. 

 

 

Oddly enough, the earlier the chassis, the sweeter it seems to run. Could be coincidence, less worn tooling at the factory, more mileage under the wheels, or a combination of all three. Regardless, this ancient example, at least 63 years old, is the quietest of today's patients and is an order of magnitude less noisy than any of the previous Panniers. 

 

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So the score at close of play today, out of four Panniers and four Jinties, is three healthy 57xxs, including the less common LT variant (which needs a chimney cap making but is otherwise near perfect), one good Jinty, at least two good running chassis to fit under either GWR or LMS representatives, one Jinty body for restoration, plus a suitable donor shell, a Pannier shell for painting practice, and a bucket of spares. Add to that probably another healthy X04, when I next have time to address the Maroon Horror's running gear, and the very enjoyable couple of days entertainment I've had, and I'll count that as a decent result. 

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37 minutes ago, PatB said:

Indeed. I do think the lined, mixed traffic black suits the loco though, however fictional. I can live with it in what is, after all, a toy. 

I wonder if any of the preserved Jinties has ever been considered for renumbering as 47606 and lining out :D.

Me too. :D

A 1:1 'Tri-ang' Jinty would be a bit of fun.

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1 hour ago, BernardTPM said:

Me too. :D

A 1:1 'Tri-ang' Jinty would be a bit of fun.

Probably a bit much to hope that the owners would consider some re-engineering to correct the Midland legacy incorrect wheelbase though ;)

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By coincidence we are showing our late friends Triang layout this weekend at the Furness show in Barrow. The collection of jintys we have been using next to the old turntable that still works.

 

It's been great fun being totally different to the usual finer scale models we are normally showing

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4 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Me too. :D

A 1:1 'Tri-ang' Jinty would be a bit of fun.

But how does one find a photo of a prototype 47606? Searching on Google, just comes up with loads of eBay R52 examples! Not surprising really.

The real 47606 was in a batch of shunting only locos, so would never have qualified for anything, but plain black.

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27 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

But how does one find a photo of a prototype 47606? Searching on Google, just comes up with loads of eBay R52 examples! Not surprising really.

The real 47606 was in a batch of shunting only locos, so would never have qualified for anything, but plain black.

That's kind of the point. Instead of modifying/repainting a Triang Jinty to resemble the real 47606, you create a full size 47606 based upon the Triang rendition. Something that would (or, at least, should) raise a smile amongst enthusiasts who reached model train interest age between ~1955 and ~1975.

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A Triang Jinty was my second loco after a Transcontinental Pacific and it got a lot of use.  Once I started to get Railway Modeller and Constructor on a regular basis late 50's I tried to adapt it into a more GWR outline and hacked off the cab etc., building a new one out of card and painting it all with Humbrol GWR Green.  I think I may still have the sorry remains somewhere in my boxes of bits I can't bear to part with!

Edited by 5050
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2 hours ago, 5050 said:

A Triang Jinty was my second loco after a Transcontinental Pacific and it got a lot of use.  Once I started to get Railway Modeller and Constructor on a regular basis late 50's I tried to adapt it into a more GWR outline and hacked off the cab etc., building a new one out of card and painting it all with Humbrol GWR Green.  I think I may still have the sorry remains somewhere in my boxes of bits I can't bear to part with!

 

Was that the conversion of a Jinty into A GWR '636' class? There was also a conversion of the 0-6-0 tender loco. (into something Cambrian IIRC). I was going to throw mine out and redo it properly (using a Dublo R1), but decided the result would still not really look like a '636', so I just refurbished her with a new chassis. I'm quite fond of her really - she was really my first successful bodge. I'll probably redo the cab though, I didn't cut it out all that well. Initially she had brake gear, but that fell off long ago!

 

I've lost count of the Tri-ang 0-6-0 chassis I have....

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1 hour ago, Il Grifone said:

 

Was that the conversion of a Jinty into A GWR '636' class? There was also a conversion of the 0-6-0 tender loco. (into something Cambrian IIRC). I was going to throw mine out and redo it properly (using a Dublo R1), but decided the result would still not really look like a '636', so I just refurbished her with a new chassis. I'm quite fond of her really - she was really my first successful bodge. I'll probably redo the cab though, I didn't cut it out all that well. Initially she had brake gear, but that fell off long ago!

 

I've lost count of the Tri-ang 0-6-0 chassis I have....

Yep, that was it! The guy who wrote the article (a vicar?) has a lot to answer for!  After this I seem to recall that there were some 'commercial' modified 4F's on the market, made to 'represent' anything that vaguely looked like an 0-6-0 tender loco.  People were easily pleased in those days!

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11 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

 

I've lost count of the Tri-ang 0-6-0 chassis I have....

Well, I've currently got 8, amongst which I can count at least 5 distinct variations as manufactured. 

 

1) Screw together, pickup plate mountings flat and symmetrical side to side. Coarse, closed spoke wheels, flangeless centre drivers, X04 with brass gears. 

 

2) As above but pickup plate mounting recessed on pickup side. 

 

3) Cast chassis block, X04 with brass gears, iron(?) open spoke wheels with shallower but very thick flanges, flangeless centre drivers. 

 

4) As 3) but with bright plated wheel rims. 

 

5) Finer flanges, vestigial flanges on centre drivers, bright plated rims, X03 motor with nylon(?) gears. 

 

That's ignoring details like weights, smoke units and the adoption of Phillips head screws in certain places. Speaking of which, the pickup plates on 1)-4) are held in place by nice brass BA screws, but on 5) they've regressed to self tappers, presumably as a cost saving measure. 

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IIRC  The variations are:-

 

Steel plates fixed to zinc alloy blocks with screws. Coarse alloy wheels X.04 motor. Mk  II coupling held in place by a steel stud.

The very early ones probably have the first version of this coupling without the semicircular weight on the dropper.

 

The introduction of the saddle tank and diesel shunter required a variant with a bracket for a body fixing screw in the bunker/cab rear. This has two 8BA tapped holes in the front (rear) block, one for this bracket (or the chimney screw) and the other for the suppressor capacitor. Probably there is no actual change to the chassis?

 

As above with slightly less coarse wheels. I'm not sure when this change took place

 

Solid alloy block with open spoke wheels fitted with awful 'square' steel tyres. These wheels are of the type the Italians call 'mille razzi' (thousand spokes). IIRC there are 18 - there should be 15.  These marked the introduction of the Mk III tension lock coupling. (I think tangle lock would be more appropriate!) The coupling rods are now fluted with an impression of the 'knuckle'. For some reason they saw fit to put it in front of the centre crank pin instead of behind where it lives on most locomotives including the Jinty.

 

As above with smoke unit. AFAIK the shift to side screw rather than chimney screw is contemporary with this change.

 

As above with Synchro-smoke.

 

At some point the X.04 lost its felt pads as the bearings were replaced with oil retaining metal.

 

They now become Tri-ang Hornby and then just Hornby. The pannier tank appeared in this era. Following the end of steam on BR. there was a vogue for pre-nationalisation liveries, hence they have G W R on the tank sides.

 

About 1980 or so, the chassis was upgraded and appeared with new finer wheels (to HD standards - about the only thing that survived the take-over). These have 15 spokes (an LMS aberration - everyone else preferred an even number). Despite this, I am in the process of fitting them to all my Tri-ang 0-6-0Ts, along with the nylon gears. The tender engines get HD wheels as I think the extra number of spokes makes them appear slightly larger. These chassis have an X.03 motor with nylon gears driving the front axle. The reduction ratio changed from 20:1* to 28:1 with this change, so the chassis runs slower (still like a bat out of hell, but not quite as bad. (off load the X.03/4 runs at 20.000 r.p.m. so there is plenty left even dividing by 30.) A plastic wheel retainer carries brake gear and press in phosphor-bronze pick ups. The fixing of these is delicate and breaks easily requiring a replacement part. The wheels on the centre axle are slightly smaller with finer flanges to permit the chassis to around train set corners. Sloppy wheel bearings fitting into sloppy slots in the chassis makes for loads of play, which is not conducive to good running.

 

Later still the SSPP (allegedly Super Strong Pulling Power) chassis appeared. This has a cr*ppy Chinese motor (not repairable - chuck it and fit a new one! I must stock up on spares!) driving finer gears on the centre axle the centre wheels now have traction tyres. This requires the rear axle to be sprung. The spring setting is critical, but the chassis works well provided it's correctly set up. The couplings rods are in two parts to allow the necessary flexibility.

 

Possibly not the correct ratios? The brass gears are double start, the nylon single. Although coarser, this results in a higher ratio.

 

The service sheets are available here  http://www.hornbyguide.com/service_sheet_menu.asp

 

If anyone knows of more (or possible errors in the above) please feel free to add/correct.

 

 

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As noted in my previous post, there seem to be variations in the cast spacers in the screw together chassis. The one I'm fairly certain is original to the bananaed Jinty has offset recesses cast into the front and rear spacers, creating a locating/insulating space for the pickup plate. The other, which has been sufficiently extensively bodged as to render its origins uncertain, has flat, cast surfaces instead, on which the pickup plate will happily sit either way round. It came with the pickups on the opposite side to the others, but whether that's factory or not, who knows? The pickup mounting faces, however, show no sign of modification, so that, at least, is as Triang intended. 

 

I guess, given the model has been in production, in its various forms, for getting on for 65 years, it's only reasonable to expect a few variations. It's a good job I have no obsessive compulsive tendencies or I'd be spending the next few years tracking down every one. :D

Edited by PatB
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Interesting. For the pick up plate to be the wrong way round the insulated wheels have to be on the left hand side which will require either the insulated brush to be on the left as well or the magnet to be upside down, otherwise it will go the wrong way. The saddle tank and diesel shunter chassis are identical to the Jinty chassis including the wiring. 2 rail locomotives always go the same way irrespective of which way they are facing. It could be a factory assembly error, as modification would require removal of the wheels (or at least the outer  axles) and getting the wheels absolutely true on refitting is tricky.

 

It was introduced in 1954 so this year is its 65th birthday. Until 1956*, it was produced in acetate so early examples are all curvy

 

*Approximately. A TC diesel switcher I bought was polystyrene apart from the battery box which was acetate. I do my best to avoid the stuff.... (It is difficult - apart from Tri-ang, Graham Farish, Dublo coach windows and Trix all use it.

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I don't really see that it can be 65 years old when basically they replaced it with a completely new model in 1978 - a new chassis and a new body. Only the number and X04 motor (which almost everything had anyway) were the same. Mind, that model is now over 40 years old!

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10 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

Interesting. For the pick up plate to be the wrong way round the insulated wheels have to be on the left hand side which will require either the insulated brush to be on the left as well or the magnet to be upside down, otherwise it will go the wrong way. The saddle tank and diesel shunter chassis are identical to the Jinty chassis including the wiring. 2 rail locomotives always go the same way irrespective of which way they are facing. It could be a factory assembly error, as modification would require removal of the wheels (or at least the outer  axles) and getting the wheels absolutely true on refitting is tricky.

 

It was introduced in 1954 so this year is its 65th birthday. Until 1956*, it was produced in acetate so early examples are all curvy

 

*Approximately. A TC diesel switcher I bought was polystyrene apart from the battery box which was acetate. I do my best to avoid the stuff.... (It is difficult - apart from Tri-ang, Graham Farish, Dublo coach windows and Trix all use it.

It's been rewheeled with 70s plated rim wheels, so anything could have happened to it. 

 

First photo shows the pickup mounting area on the bodged chassis. No visible file marks suggest it was flat from the factory. I've just put a meter on it and both sides seem live to the chassis so I have to assume it's never run in its current configuration. Second photo shows the same area on the chassis from the acetate body. As you can see, there are raised lugs cast into the mazak spacers to keep the phosphor bronze strip and its rivets away from the chassis, with the help of a fibre gasket. The offset of the lugs presumably makes it clearer which way round the pickup plate fits. 

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47 minutes ago, sandwich station said:

Slightly later than Triang, the retooled late 70's version in LMS red 16440 had a full size version that ran at the Midland Railway Centre. Not sure which came first, the model or the real thing.

The Tri-ang model was based on the prototype, as it then existed. So the model was correct. See the last section here.

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=23

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