Puzzel Yard - O gauge in 2.745m x 0.5m

[Andrew P]

Hi Ray, Fencing, Coal Bins, Timber Shed.

 

 

[ocarolan]

8 hours ago, Ray H said:

....................

 

I have also (legally) acquired ten boxes of 1000 wooden stirrers. I'm sure I can find a use for some of them on the layout! I wonder if they could be used to make a wooden fence?

 

That'll be a very long fence!

 

I made a loco shed out of this sort of coffee stirrer, many of which I acquired over a period of several months last year visiting one of my daughters in hospital and making numerous visits to the cafe there. Fairford was the inspiration for the shed, though the model is much shorter. The building needs a bit of dirtying and bedding in when I get around to doing some "ground" .

 

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by ocarolan

[Ray H]

Thanks chaps. Both sets of pictures are brilliant.

 

I know someone at the club has used them for an O gauge 3 coach long wooden platform surface. For some reason he's declined to build another one!

 

The two tracks alongside the servo heads/horns are all but parallel to the edge of the board with the track nearest the edge of the baseboard being the longer one. I was wondering if I could fence these two sidings off from the rest of the tracks to form a pair of pseudo private sidings. A wooden fence all round at a scale six foot high would still keep the sidings mostly visible within the scenic area but would allow me to disguise/hide the servo heads/horns as well as have something slightly different to mark (part of) the edge of the railway land.

 

I have also thought of having a coaling stage between two other tracks where (steam) locos can pause at the end of the current round of shunting. That would use some more up!

 

I've had another look at the servos and reckon that I could lower them by placing spacers between their fixing brackets and the under side of the baseboard. That would keep the horns a lot closer to the baseboard top and make them easier to disguise. It's just the fag of doing that - they're secured with over-length machine screws and lock nuts. I knew I'd regret doing it that way eventually!

[hartleymartin]

On 22/01/2020 at 01:50, Ray H said:

Thanks Paul. I have a good 90% of a 100m role of the 6-way  flat cable, numerous RJ12 plugs and associated crimping tool so could have made a longer one up but then I'd have to find somewhere to keep it when not in use. The short cable that I had been using doubles as the cable when the PowerCab is connected to my programming tracks and hangs tidily over the power pack when not in use.

 

I've now got the curly lead which isn't much longer when compressed than the short flat lead but at least I can comfortably stretch to either end of the layout whilst holding the throttle now without fear of ending up needing an osteopath or the throttle escaping my grasp.

 

 

I have also (legally) acquired ten boxes of 1000 wooden stirrers. I'm sure I can find a use for some of them on the layout! I wonder if they could be used to make a wooden fence?

 

 

 

Where did you get those stirrers? I've never been able to track them down. They happen to be about right for doing industrial railway tracks with code 100 rail in O gauge.

[daifly]

Did you try Googling 'wooden stirrers'? Lots of options if you do!

Dave

[Ray H]

They were donated to a local kid's charity recently by the pallet load. I have a colleague who works there and he gave me a pack.

 

It's a pity you're not a bit closer as I'm sure he would have been able to give some for you.

[jcarta]

19 hours ago, hartleymartin said:

 

 

Where did you get those stirrers? I've never been able to track them down. They happen to be about right for doing industrial railway tracks with code 100 rail in O gauge.

 

When your out an about pop into a Costa's coffee shop they will always have some

 

Jim

[Ray H]

Another new recruit to the puzzle courtesy of my mate Jim. All I've done to it is (badly) add numbers (so we can identify it) and fit Dingham couplings. Oh, and glue one side's brake gear back in place. That takes the wagon content up to 18.

 

 

There's probably some changes afoot!

 

I fitted some height adjusters to the legs when I discovered the garage floor wasn't as flat as I thought it was. Even after doing this and setting the layout up with spirit levels along and across the boards, some wagons/vans still seem to have a mind of their own when they're left unattended. Out with the spirit level again and lo and behold the feet need re-adjusting. I think part of this is the outer legs. They're not braced and get knocked from time to time which probably doesn't help. I wouldn't rule out a bit of board warp either. 

 

Memo to self - fit legs at each end of the two end boards so those boards can be put up independently and can both be braced. It will also make it easier to erect & dismantle the layout because the middle one has to go up first at present and then I have to squeeze past it to put up the far board and then squeeze back with the third board for the other end. I also have to jiggle around to lock the temporarily unsupported end to the centre board.

 

There are other thoughts now that I've had a chance to use the layout. More about that later.

[Ray H]

It was fun whilst it lasted . . . . 

 

I indicated above that there were likely to be some changes afoot so here we go.

 

This track is too close to the edge of the board to get even basic scenery in the gap. There's a relatively straight section under the loco so I'll start the curve a little earlier to open up some more space.

 

 

There are a couple of sidings further to the left. Both are curved for much of their length. I'm thinking that I may reduce the gap between them.

 

 

The siding in front of the sector plate has been built with an incline to move away from the flat earth of the rest of the layout. I hadn't realised that there was a grade change where the two baseboards ends are. That alone makes one of the locos derail and the grade itself at around 1:40 causes the Dingham couplings to come uncoupled. Having the grade was a good idea but it needs a good look to appreciate its presence. I shall remove the gradient.

 

Similar to the first image above, this siding is also a little too close to the baseboard edge and needs to be moved a bit further inboard.

 

 

Another thing that's been niggling me is the close proximity of this siding to any backscene that i might erect to hide the sector plate. I'm hoping that resolution of some of the other niggles will help me reduce that close proximity.

 

 

The uncoupling magnet on the track nearest to the other edge of the board is too close to the baseboard join/sector plate with the result that it frequently doesn't work. I need to move the magnet a bit further along the siding which will reduce the usable length of the siding a bit. The siding has a capacity of eight wagons so losing one shouldn't cause too many problems.

 

 

Also on this side of the layout the servo horns are too high to be easily disguised and yet still be accessible if I need to do any work on them. A change indicated below will hopefully address that.

 

 

This isn't the best picture but with the sector plate positioned parallel to the board edge I reckon its pivot point isn't positioned correctly. I reckon it should be about 40mm to the right/nearer the baseboard edge - there is a third track the start of which is (only) just visible at bottom right. I think that positioning the sector plate more centrally will resolve some of the derailment problems that I get with that third siding because the curve away from the sector plate is too sharp. It may also mean that the uncoupling magnet will work better in its current place.

 

 

And here's the final picture which shows two left hand points and how much of the curved track of an out of the box point is in actual fact straight. I'm about to make a couple of 3-way points for some colleagues and I may well carry on and rebuild the two points shown here. Doing so may address a further niggle. The rail gap at the baseboard join is about the same distance from the frog's crossing V gap as the distance between the axles on some of the wagons. As a result some of the wagons clunk and lurch as they pass over these sections of track. I may move the (left) point a little way away from the board join possibly by making the crossing V rails longer.

 

 

You'll have to take my word for it as there's no pictures to show it but I'm 99% certain that some parts of the baseboards have warped. What I hoped was 6mm plywood is in fact more like 4.75mm thick. I know I should have gone for birch ply rather than use the DIY store's product but the fact that there are so many changes that I believe need making means I can ditch the present (cheaper) plywood and buy the proper stuff. With that in mind I have already ordered some 9mm birch plywood. This is being cut to size ready for collection next weekend. We'll then make a fresh start and try to incorporate resolution to all of the above.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Ray H

[Andrew P]

Sounds like a problem, but it also sounds like you know how to remedy it now Ray.

 

I always use 9mm best Ply from a reputable Timber Merchant, and (touch wood) I've never had any issues yet, even when soaking it several times to wet and lay Ballast and then to Wet and lift Track because of a change of Plan, (WOT PLAN?) and then to re wet again to re Ballast new Track.

[Ray H]

Andy, your so kind, saying I've only got A problem!

 

I've started experimenting with meths on the laid/fixed ballast having read somewhere that it dissolves PVA. Early results look favourable so I might avoid the need to buy yet another jar of ballast.

 

We tend to use warm water at the club when we want to modify track that's been ballasted. That does work but unless it is only a minor re-alignment the ballast there isn't re-used. I may yet try the warm water on the present layout and instead of scrapping the ballast put it in a container and immerse it in Meths to see if that breaks the clumps of removed ballast down.

 

I'll definitely ditch the 1/16" cork underlay and get some 1/8" - the 1/16" seems to break up the minute is sees a knife/scalpel blade heading its way.

 

Amazingly (?) or should it be luckily (?) the current plan uses the minimum of individual track pieces so there's no a lot of de-soldering to do when I start track lifting.

 

I'm hoping the new version will be up and running in about 3 weeks - after I've assembled the new baseboards, worked out the revised track alignment, (bought and) laid the cork and then relaid the track. I'll leave re-ballasting for a few weeks in case anything still requires revising.

[Andrew P]

WOW Ray, I've only ever used water on any PVA Ballast and had no problems with it lifted easily.

 

I wish you well with the changes mate.

[Ray H]

Thanks Andy.

 

Yes, drowning it in water does tend to loosen it but not always in individual pieces and it is the clumping effect that I am trying to prevent. That's what I get for being too tight to buy some new ballast.

 

I've been using the layout today and had a thought.

 

I mentioned above that the siding in front of the sector plate is too close to the front edge of the layout and that it's also too close to the corner of the sector plate. I've also been wondering how best to disguise the sector plate whilst leaving it partially visible so that viewers can still witness movement during protracted shunting on it.

 

How about replacing the sector plate with a two road traverser? I could surround it with (building style) walls, a bit like its roof had been damaged in the war. The end of the layout could then be the (newer) outer wall of a wagon works with the relevant doors in it. The track in front of the traverser could also lead to a set of doors into works or, possibly, actually through some doors into the works. It would solve the problems with the couplings on curves and allow the trackwork to be more central on the board and give an increase around the baseboard edge to plant some green stuff.

 

Just a thought.

[Ray H]

I'd managed to build the two 3-way points by Monday evening which left Tuesday and yesterday for dismantling the three baseboards. Some warm water and a slight interval - during which I unsoldered all the track feeds - saw the track lifted one board at a time. I've got some leftovers from the point build that may allow me to make some modifications to three Peco points that Puzzel Yard requires.

 

It took a full two days to lift the track, pick off all the bits of ballast that had glued itself to the sleepers, strip the cork off the boards and finally unscrew them. I now have a pile of plywood pieces that are generally only fit for the tip.

 

I realised overnight that I was one piece of the new jigsaw short. It's the narrow strip that the curved end of a sector plate runs inside - the straight edge of the strip being fixed and aligned to the baseboard edge.

 

I've also realised that replacing the sector plate with a traverser won't cut the mustard because one of the three tracks leading from it needs to be at an angle.

 

However, I've had another thought this morning. Previously each of the two tracks on the sector plate aligned with all of the three tracks leading into the scenic section (although not all at the same time). I wonder how things would pan out if I restricted access to one of the two sector plate tracks to be from just two of the three scenic section tracks? After all it is meant to be a shunting puzzle!

 

I've a little bit of unsoldering to do this morning and then I can get on with building the new boards.

[Ray H]

Guess who's a Silly Billy?

 

I managed to find a reasonably local supplier of birch plywood who would cut to size and make some large holes in the cross-bracing.

 

I drove over and collected the pieces last Saturday and laid them on the floor under a bed to keep them flat once I got them home until I was ready to use them.

 

As previously advised, I had finished dismantling the old boards earlier in the week and yesterday's task was to start assembling the new boards only to find that the supplier had managed to cut the two transverse braces under the sector plate 23mm too short.

 

I telephoned the firm to report my findings and they agreed to re-cut ad post the new pieces out to me. Oh well, let's make the other two boards . . . . . 

 

It was then that I noticed that my cutting list had omitted one vital aspect - the two longitudinal side braces for each board! Stupid Boy.

 

I've reported this to the firm and can't get over to collect the bits until next weekend.

[hartleymartin]

If you're going to junk the 4.75mm plywood top anyway, you can get the track off easily by pouring boiling water straight from the kettle onto the track. I've had no ill effects so far on Peco track from doing this.

[Andrew P]

5 hours ago, hartleymartin said:

If you're going to junk the 4.75mm plywood top anyway, you can get the track off easily by pouring boiling water straight from the kettle onto the track. I've had no ill effects so far on Peco track from doing this.

That's an interesting one, I've always used cold water from a misting Bottle, in fact I lifted some this afternoon on my Seven Mills Sidings, that was laid about 18 Months ago with a PVA / Water mix. I just slid an old kitchen knife under one sleeper after a few minutes of soaking and up it all came in one go.

 

[Ray H]

The track's all up and warm water and a wider scraper were the culprits. I was going to try to re-cycle/re-use the ballast and an experiment with Meths and a small quantity of the old ballast does seem to have been successful. However, I've decided that the ballast I had used was too coarse so whilst I may try and find a use for some of the old stuff other than on the track, my current thinking is to go for the medium Woodland Scenic light grey.

 

I'm also wondering whether I do actually need cork to lay the track on. The trains aren't going to be going too fast so I'll experiment once I've got one of the boards built to see how noisy cork free track laying really is.

 

The one downside I could see is that ballasting's water requirement might cause the ply problems although a coat of varnish (on both sides) should avoid that. Thoughts anyone?

[Andrew P]

I use Gaugemaster 00 Ballast, sometimes mixed with Woodlands Scenics light Grey to lighten it up, or fine Cinders to darken it down as required, and can be seen in my pic above.

 

I don't bother with cork, because, as you say, Locos etc are only working very slowly, even with my BIG Blue boxes it is very good.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Andrew P

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Ray, I paint the ply and use cork. 

 

I like the shoulder it gives to the ballast. But I am doing a layout based in the 1930's and the trackbed was maintained to a high standard back then, even on a Branch line.

 

Ballast size is very subjective and is really up to the builder. Personally I like the larger course Woodland Scenics ballast.

 

Cheers, Ade.

 

 

[Ray H]

I made a second visit to the supplier today to collect (a) the replacements for the two bits they'd cut too short and (b) the bits I forgot to put on the original cutting list!

 

I've also squared up the corners of the recesses that the CNC (?) machine left curved and cut the grooves for the lap joints that the supplier hadn't appreciated were required from my (poor) drawing/description.

 

With a bit of luck and a following wind I should be baseboard assembling tomorrow.

 

I've drawn out the track plan in Templot in the hope that I can tweak the three points slightly to improve the exit from the sector plate and increase the space between the sector plate and the siding in front of it. I'm reasonably happy that the new arrangement also gives me a little more space around the edge of the baseboards to at least add a fence/hedge.

 

The old baseboard tops will probably yield enough material to use for the backscene as these can only be about 150mm high of the baseboards won't fit on the trolley.

 

That gives me three points to build. Do I dismantle three Peco points I had been using and re-use what rail I can or do I hope I have enough rail left over from the two 3-way points I made recently to provide all I need for the new points?

[Ray H]

I carcass for the (mainly) fiddle yard board has been assembled with one or two slip ups here and there. Luckily none were insurmountable (at least not when you have a chisel in your hand!).

 

I've realised that the cross bearers for the legs from the Mk.1 version need to be shortened slightly as the new boards are (intentionally) a shade narrower than the old ones.

 

I hope to have this board completed quite quickly tomorrow and then I can start on the other end board, both of which need to be finished before I can complete the centre board as that board is suspended between the other two.

[Ray H]

A generally productive day (and a back ache to prove it!).

 

All three new boards are now assembled. The only notable error on my part was the end plate on one end of the middle board. This was initially fixed upside down. I didn't notice this until I tried to erect all three boards for the first time and it was quickly fixed.

 

The surface looks so much more presentable than on the Mk. 1 version. It almost seems a pity to have to lay the track plan on it! Anyway, here is the track plan overlaid on the baseboards.

 

 

The geometry of the siding bottom right was always liable to change as the arrangement shown is that generated automatically by Templot under the reverse curve option.

 

The three Peco points have just been laid on the plan to see how different hand-built ones will be. The answer is not a lot as far as I can tell but putting the Peco ones on the plan was almost the last thing I did today and I plan to have another look tomorrow.

 

I still have to devise a reasonably basic form of bracing the legs (which are those that were used on the Mk. 1 layout version). I'm looking for something that will not leave any protrusions when the layout is stored.

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Ray H

[Ray H]

I've solved the bracing problem.

 

I unintentionally found a couple of narrow plywood strips, off-cuts from the Mk.1 version of the layout. I also found the remains of the softwood lengths I'd used for the legs.

 

I screwed said software length in the middle of one of the layout's side frames.

 

I then trimmed the plywood, rounded the ends  and drilled a hole in each end to make the bracing strips.

 

One end of the bracing strip is screwed to the inside of a leg and between two washers so that the strip can pivot easily - hopefully without the screw working loose.

 

The other end is screwed to the softwood off-cut. This is the screw that will be undone when the layout goes into store leaving the bracing strut to simply drop down to the vertical, neatly tucked away inside the leg to which it is fixed to. I may well replace this screw with a nut & bolt which can be undone without the need to go under the layout. 

 

I had planned to use three of these braces and may still do so in the hope that it will stop the outer leg at the other end of the layout being pushed inwards. However, the layout is currently pretty firm with just the two braces in place.

[Ray H]

I have added a third brace - to the other end board - and I've acquired some M4 bolts and wing nuts to allow the braces to be fitted/removed easily when the layout is being assembled and/or dismantled. I may just add a fourth brace while I can still make plywood strips from parts of the Mk. 1 layout.

 

Track laying has started with both sector plate tracks down and all or part of the three tracks that lead to/from the sector plate fixed down at the sector plate end of the middle board. I'm using ½" x No. 6 brass screws to secure the rails at the baseboard edges. It appears that the likes of Screwfix and Toolstation no longer sell brass screws - I had the last packet from my local Toolstation - so it looks as though mail order will be the order of the day in future unless the requirements only for a few such screws when the local DIY sheds will probably be able to supply, but at a price..

 

I'm hopeful that track laying on the rest of the middle board will be complete by tomorrow evening.

 

Edited to add: Subsequent checking of the two local DIY sheds on-line doesn't reveal too many brass screws either.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Ray H