Jump to content
 

Puzzel Yard - O gauge in 2.745m x 0.5m


Ray H
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Ray H said:

 

I've been a member of a club that has a large O gauge layout for several years. I've bought a few locos to run there.

 

My OO gauge layout ideally needs at least a couple of people to get the most benefit from it.

 

I happened upon a few O gauge wagons a while ago (and bought a few kits as well) and that's what I plan to use at home.

 

I can't swear that the OO layout won't go in time but I don't see that happening in the foreseeable future.

 

Another option that I have actually considered is to reduce the size of the OO layout so that occupies one side and the far end and then have an O gauge layout on the other side.

 

Time will tell.

Which is what I currently have in my Shed, O / SMS down one side and OO / New Mills down the other, and now of course, Cadley Hill down the middle.

 

After the move, the jury is still out, as I might go back to an OO Roundy, based on the Somerset and Dorset, which will probably mean the O will have to go, unless I can find room for that, like you have at the moment, down the middle of whatever room I have. Also SMS is 17ft long and most Garages that I've seen are in the region of 15 to 16ft, so I will need a total re think anyway.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide Ray, but most of all enjoy whatever you decided mate.

  • Agree 1
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Board 2 was 99.5% finished today - it will need a little more work once I've finally decided what's happening on board three.

 

231019_1.jpg.25b057883c9017f7cb9b77688e530544.jpg

 

Two of the boards have now been reduced down by four inches to 20 inch width and the ruler shows where the third board will be cut back to.  The image also shows where a single track sector plate (or single cassette) would need to reach if I opted for that.

 

231019_2.jpg.3354cd29c5f80124385b753a0e175609.jpg

 

Here's a modified version of the above. It shows where I think the divider between the fiddle yard - two track sector plate version - and the long siding along the front of the layout will go.

 

I'd prefer the two track version but I'm a little concerned about the closeness of the siding track to the aforementioned partition. There's every chance that I haven't got the sector plate tracks laid out properly and when once I have that sorted the close proximity might get even closer or (hopefully) further apart.

 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

What a difference a day makes!

 

241019_1.jpg.3129e38a9e6fd00891884fcf22dbdfc3.jpg

 

Much the same as the previous image but with a cardboard simulated two track sector plate.

 

The card at the top right of the picture shows the intended location for a platform/halt. It will (intentionally) be just big enough for a railcar - to the right of the card.

 

As before the vertical plywood is the separator between fiddle yard and scenic area. I've managed to gain a couple of centimetres between the track and the backscene.

 

The slight taper to the right at the far end of the (card) sector plate was put there so that the sector plate could swing a little more to the right or to allow the backscene to move slightly to the left. In the end a much simpler idea struck me. The far end of the backscene won't go right down to the baseboard. The right hand sector plate track can then swing further right and the first centimetre or so of that track can pass below that end of the backscene. I lose about 30 mm of the length of the track but that's more acceptable than having the backscene too close to the (scenic) siding or just a single track on the sector plate.

 

My more recent concern is the closeness of the left-hand siding beyond the sector plate to the edge of the layout. I've tried unsuccessfully playing around with numerous sector plate pivot points to address that. Consequently I'm going to slide everything 15 mm to the right in the picture towards what is the front of the layout. I shall also adjust the position of the siding on the right nearest the camera so that that is a shade further away from the edge of the board thereby equalising the distance between the edge of the baseboard and the nearest track thereto all round the layout.

  • Like 4
  • Craftsmanship/clever 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

The track is down on two of the three baseboards.

 

The sector plate needs a little more fettling which I hope to do first thing tomorrow. The third board only has four sidings on it (track wise). so that should be sorted tomorrow as well.

 

Then I'll make a start on the electrics. The points are to be operated by servos via a MERG Servo4 servo controller kit which also has to be put together.

 

I plan to use some DIN plugs that I have in stock for electrical connection between the boards - the sockets will be fitted into 16mm holes that will be drilled in the ply under board frame. I shall just have short connecting leads.

 

I haven't given to much thought to where the (dcc) PowerCab PCP board will go. The PCP fascia is deeper than the baseboard frame so it can't go there. The only other idea I have currently is to mount the PCP on the top side of the fiddle yard board. I'm trying to leave fitting until the last so that all the other must do jobs get done first, then I can concentrate on some shunting testing.

  • Like 2
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Here's by way of an update.

 

Track fixing was gradually carried out over the last few weeks, having reduced the depth of the boards to twenty inches - it is amazing how much extra space that has seemed to throw up in the centre of the garage. The front of the layout has also been move a bit closer to the OO layout as can be seen in the images below - the bits of O gauge track visible in some are the remains of my previous O gauge programming and setting up track.

 

The siding in front of the fiddle yard has been lowered by 15mm to break up the flat earth look.

 

Then I made a start on the wiring on a board by board basis with the middle board left until last as it was the most complicated. This was when I fitted the servos to operate the points.

 

I had also been checking that the tracks across the baseboard joins were as level as they could be (except for the aforementioned siding). Unfortunately the piece of re-purposed mdf that I had been using for the sector plate table wasn't as flat as I thought it was in one corner and all sorts of different contortions were experimented with to see if it was possible to fiddle a work around.

 

I'd got t a stage where I thought it would be OK but then over the last two days I've been shunting wagons around to prove there weren't any problems with the electrics. This has revealed that sector plate couldn't stay as it was. But before I got that far I spent almost a (short) day trying to overcome a couple of short circuits on the middle board - and I'm the one who wires the club layout!

 

It all started when I thought I'd finished wiring the middle board. For some reason I thought I'd put a test meter on it to make sure it was OK. It wasn't. Two of the points are worked as a crossover and I got a short every time I reversed that crossover. I should mention that frog polarity switching is achieved using two or for the crossover, four pole double throw switches. I checked and double and triple checked that I hadn't attached the track power wires to the wrong rails. I hadn't.

 

I decided to remove one of the crossover points and that checked out OK but the minute it went back in the layout I got a short. Grrrrrrrrrr!

 

To cut a long story short I eventually found that I had two shorts. One was because when adding the droppers to each length of track I had overlooked that the short joining section between the two crossover points had the insulated rail joiner at the wrong end, relative to the dropper feed so I was in essence feeding said rail section by its track power dropper and via the metal rail joiner attached to the point's frog - the insulated rail joiner was located at the other end of this short rail section where it connected to the frog of the other point of the crossover.

 

The other short was an oversight. I'd been playing around with the track trying to improve the alignment and decided to change a Y point for a left hand point. I'd previously modified the Y point for dcc working and then forgot to do so to the left-hand turnout. I made the changes and re-inserted the point only to find it was still not working. I'd bonded the closure rails to the relevant stock rails and hadn't noticed that the two stock rails were still connected at the frog end. I should have known better as I've modified numerous points for dcc operation.

 

As mentioned above I've been shunting wagons around with the result that I finally needed to do something about the sector plate. Luckily I found another piece of (flat) MDF and late this afternoon I set about the change. The new board is installed and the cork underlay has been glued to the top surface. I've tested the level of the two boards is the same with a steel ruler on edge across the join. 

 

I also removed the narrow strip of plywood that bridges the gap between sector plate and the adjacent baseboard. That's been cleaned up and has had a repair to remove a bump in the top surface. That'll go back down tomorrow and then I can put the track back down and resume shunting.

 

051119_3.jpg.133d119a82958ef7bf2cde1c469d0e6c.jpg

 

The far end of the layout - the locos and stock were what I was using whilst shunting and as I currently don't have anywhere easily accessible to put them, they've stayed on the layout whilst I attended to the fiddle yard.

 

051119_2.jpg.5148a4f098f5802ccf5d25058889d577.jpg

 

The middle board. The servos to operate the points are screwed t the underside of the baseboard with just the horn above the board. The left hand siding was relaid 15mm further away from the board edge as its original position left little room for any scenery - not that I plan to have too much of that!

 

051119_1.jpg.77006895bbaec9bf2d4b1108bd092dfc.jpg

 

The new sector plate in position and awaiting track.

  • Like 8
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

With a bit of luck! I might have to turn the rest of the electric in the house off though when you want to run it.

 

Today's early effort saw the relaying/re-commissioning of the sector plate and much better the operation of the layout is for it.

 

061119_1.jpg.978e75f500d31ade8a9de90c35f7f804.jpg

 

Five of the vans at the far end of the layout had only arrived thirty minutes earlier from a retailer in Sheffield. One already has Dingham couplings so that's one less for me to do - the sixth van in the picture has been around for a while.

 

I hope to change some more of the three-link couplings for Dingham's over the next day or so. I shall also carry using the layout tomake sure all is in order.

 

I've unearthed what I believe are some old GPO relay coils which have languished in the loft for a very long time. I connected one to a 12v dc supply and moved one of the Dingham coupling fitted wagon nearby and the coupling responded well to the magnet. All (?) I need to do now is to devise a means of fixing the electro-magnets to the layout as they're of a reasonably large radius so drilling a hole in the baseboard is, at the moment, not something I wish to consider.

  • Like 5
  • Craftsmanship/clever 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

One of the layout options that I had been considering was of an Inglenook design partly because i liked the idea of trying to work to a target. As can be seen that's not the path that I have chosen to take.

 

However, one of the prime if not the only prime reason for adopting this layout plan was because it is full of sidings which provide a multitude of shunting options.

 

I like the idea of using some kind of system to determine where each item of rolling stock goes so I've come up with the following.

 

There are five sidings on the scenic part of the layout plus a two track sector plate - I'm currently not including the headshunt at top right in the above image but may subsequently do so.

 

I've determined how much stock can be put in each siding - discounting any space required for a loco. I've then entered this into a spreadsheet together with the identity of each wagon - two of the vastly differently painted wagons that arrived today currently carry the same number so one will have to be changed.

 

I've written a small sub-routine that takes each wagon in turn and randomly allocates a siding for it to be moved to. It also notes when a siding is full and randomly generates another siding number to be used instead. The end result is a list of vehicle numbers with the number of the siding each is to be moved to. The process automatically repeats for (currently) ten sets of results. Each result is printed out on a card to give me ten different combinations of siding usage. The card combinations won't repeat sequentially because as soon as one card's tasks have been completed I shuffle the remaining nine cards and take one from the pile. I then return the most recently used card to the stack. This ensures that the use of the same card isn't repeated.

 

I haven't worked out the odds but I reckon that because the siding usage at the end of one card's use is one of ten options and the next card to be chosen is one of nine the chances of the same order of usage of the cards being routinely repeated are slim.

 

The layout of the siding tracks needs two locos, one pushing one way and the other doing the opposite. It should keep two people amused for a while.

 

There's a twist. I'm treating the two tracks on the sector plate as berthing sidings as well so the number of wagons that can be shunted via a sector plate track in a single move can reduce because one or more wagons may have been berthed on the track in accordance with what the card directs.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Today has been spent shunting wagons around on the layout following a decision to make that headshunt at top right of the above picture a track for stabling like the rest of the tracks. Partial use of the headshunts for berthing wagons certainly adds a further complication  in re-arranging the wagon berths.

 

All the rolling stock is now fitted with Dingham couplings and having spent a day using them (with permanent magnets) I have realised that I didn't follow the instructions - I'm a bloke, what else does one expect?

 

Firstly, I had fitted each coupling with a spring whereas the instructions suggest that a fixed hook position will probably yield better results. I'm planning to make the change but am trying to decide which adhesive to use as I want to retain the ability to restore the previous 3-link couplings should I decide to sell a vehicle in the future. I also need to buy some of whatever adhesive I decide to use!

 

Secondly, I retained the "pips" top and bottom behind the coupling hook which has the effect of pushing the front of the hook forward of the buffer heads. It also causes the loop of one coupling to ride up on the hook of the adjacent wagon making uncoupling more difficult. I've removed the pips from 5 wagons so far and the rest will be done tomorrow all being well. The couplings certainly seem to work better once modified. I'd skipped the option during the assembly of measuring how far the buffers protruded from the body and thought that the larger measurement specified would be the norm, whereas the smaller measurement is more common - it applies to all the wagons that I have and one loco.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • RMweb Premium

The couplings were all modified as indicated above and a few days fun was had shunting the wagons about.

 

I've also had the pleasure of being given an almost complete fret of Dingham's from a club member who has decided to change to Sprat & Winkle couplings at home.

 

He has also shared with me a variation on the build which uses 16BA nuts & bolts/screws as the hinge for both the loop and the latch. I'm not aware of any problems with the loops but several latches aren't working as they should so I'm gradually re-visiting each wagon where the latch isn't working properly, removing the coupling from the wagon, changing to the 16BA pivot and re-installing the coupling. I'm also taking the opportunity to remake the latch where I think it can be improved.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

I've made two other decisions.

 

Firstly the name. Now that I seem to have settled on using the layout as a shunting puzzle I think it is only right to rename it to Puzzel Yard - the thread heading will be changed in due course.

 

Secondly, the layout was originally intended to be supported by a couple of 34mm square pieces of softwood that rest on my fold-down bench. I hadn't really considered the consequences of that because it means that I don't have a bench to work at. As a result the layout has been taken down so that I can work on the couplings at the bench.

 

I've now decided to fit the layout with legs so that it becomes self-supporting. It will also allow me to erect it on either side of the "free" space in the middle of the OO layout and, if I move the desk along I can have the best of both worlds and have the bench and layout up simultaneously.

  • Like 4
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

What makes you think that the domestic manager might have been out for part of today?

 

281119_1.jpg.01a8f1c9550f69b0bc458891c8176ad3.jpg

 

The legs are now finished and the layout was erected in the kitchen where there was room to have all three boards up and still have access to the bench in the garage if needed.

 

The layout has since been moved back into the garage and the stock put back on it.

 

I'm undecided on whether to spend a bit more time shunting wagons around or whether to overhaul some more couplings or, perish the thought. actually make a start  on some scenery!

  • Like 6
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
12 hours ago, Ray H said:

What makes you think that the domestic manager might have been out for part of today?

 

281119_1.jpg.01a8f1c9550f69b0bc458891c8176ad3.jpg

 

The legs are now finished and the layout was erected in the kitchen where there was room to have all three boards up and still have access to the bench in the garage if needed.

 

The layout has since been moved back into the garage and the stock put back on it.

 

I'm undecided on whether to spend a bit more time shunting wagons around or whether to overhaul some more couplings or, perish the thought. actually make a start  on some scenery!

If I were you, Ray, (but I'm not) I'd spend a lot more time shunting/playing/testing before I even thought about scenery.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
3 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

If I were you, Ray, (but I'm not) I'd spend a lot more time shunting/playing/testing before I even thought about scenery.

 

I like that idea! That said, I might take the odd break and do a bit of ballasting.

 

There won't be too much scenery as the railway fence will be on the edges of the baseboard. Apart from the obligatory grass I have in mind a small signal box (as was, but is now reduced to a ground frame), a yard crane, a (probably low relief) shed/store in front of the fiddle yard and something to act as an office/messing facilities.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Nooooooo Ray, Don't ballast until you've had a good few days, (at least) testing, something good or bad will always be found in the testing playing as I've found out this week with Argyle Street, I found things that I had assumed would be acceptable were not, just like you and your Workbench already.

 

Looking very good though, I have to say.:good:

  • Like 1
  • Agree 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

With no other significant matters needing my attention, I've spent a large chunk of the day operating the layout. The only derailments were of my own making and the only coupling problems were either likewise or as detailed below.

 

The layout has numerous permanent (Neodymium) magnets in the places where I reckoned there would most likely be a need to uncouple. The one downside of this is that every propelled vehicle passing over the magnets becomes uncoupled and has to be re-coupled before the "train" can be reversed back having deposited the wagon(s) that need to be left behind.

 

301119_1.jpg.8d2e4c7d78fee99844c6762325aa4d31.jpg

 

Many (many) years ago someone gave me a couple of dozen of theses coils. I've tested one at 12v off the layout and they happily uncouple a pair of wagons so I should be able to use these instead of the present arrangement.

 

There is a downside to that idea though! The end of the coil nearest the camera is some 14mm in diameter - I'd guess the core is around 6mm in diameter - and I'm stumped for a way to drill a 14mm hole without removing the track and then, having drilled the hole, how to secure the coli in place.

 

I think I could probably manage to drill the smaller size hole - which would allow me to glue the assembly to the underside of the baseboard. The baseboard is circa 5mm thick.

 

Does anyone know if I could glue some washes (or similar) of the relevant diameter to the core so that hole through the baseboard doesn't need to be any larger than the core diameter.

 

I haven't tried drilling a 6mm hole and just gluing the coil to the underside of the board but I'll try to give that a go tomorrow in case I can get away without the washers or what have you.

  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm using Dinghams elecro-magnets.  What I do is drill a hole from the top about 0.8 mm, leave the drill in place, then from the bottom mark it, open it out the hole , in my case I use a wood drill not a metal drill because it is much flatter. In your case I would use a spade drill.

Alternatively you could drill and tap the iron and fit a stud made from a bolt.  I pass my bolt through an aluminium angle then fit this under the bb.

Before doing anything I would try the coil on a coupling as it may not be strong enough.  Dinghams use an 8 ohms winding about 1 1/2 amps, your coils would be about a quarter of that.

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by O-Gauge-Phil
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Thanks Phil.

 

My coils are around 35Ω and I'm using a 12v supply to power them. The meter says that they draw just under 0.3 amp each. The 12v supply is rated at 2 amps and only used otherwise to power the three servos that operate the points.

 

I've now got two coils fitted having goofed on the measurements that I quoted last night. The coil former diameter is 19mm, not 14mm and the core is 9mm not 6mm.

 

I've thus drilled a 9mm hole between two sleepers and hot glued the coil former to the underside of the baseboard in line with the hole. I've managed to find a nut that fits snugly in the 9mm hole and an accompanying (short) bolt, which I've cut even shorter so that the head is a shade above the surrounding cork when screwed down. The nut isn't currently glued to the core but I may change that in due course.

 

The top of the bolt is adjustable in height. I've only just finished the modification  having previously drilled one hole too close to the board end which meant I couldn't centre the core in the hole so I had to re-drill one sleeper away. Consequently full trials will have to wait until tomorrow. However, I have managed to replace four fixed magnets with two electro-magnets so far and if the tests are successful three more electro-magnets will replace the final 4 fixed magnets.

  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm fitting some now but I have already ballasted my track. Have you tested one yet?  It would be interesting to see if you will have enough magnetism to overcome the air gap.  If you have to fit a larger dropper it will upset the balance of the coupling..  I'm using an 8 amp power supply but it also does the servos.

 

Phil

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Yes, I've fitted two in parallel and they seem to work OK. The top of the bolt head is probably a fraction above top of the adjacent sleepers.

 

The heads are bright & shiny at present but there's no ballast down. Once I'm completely happy with them I may glue the nut in place and glue the bolt into the nut. I can then ballast the space between the underside of the bolt head and the top of the nut, fill the slot in the bolt head and weather them with the rest of the track.

 

I'll give the layout another run this morning and see if I find any problems, then I'll fit the other three if everything is in order.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

The other three coils have been fitted today and if I'd previously paid a bit more attention to the Dingham build Instructions I'm sure they'd have worked 100% of the time, They weren't far short of it though.

 

I did have to replace the previous two bolts with slightly longer ones so that the top of the bolt was a bit higher than previously and this has certainly improved things.

 

The next thing to do (me thinks) is to continue to look at the couplings more thoroughly and see what changes I can make to improve their operation.

Edited by Ray H
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • RMweb Premium

The nuts have now been glued in place and the slots in the bolt heads have been filled with Milliput.

 

I've also painted the viewer's side of the rails and bought some ballast this morning.

 

A question. Do I ballast first and attend to the ground covering - I plan to try Artex - afterwards, or do I do it the other way round?

 

I have some things to do for the club layout over the next few days so further work on my layout is likely to be slow for a while.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • RMweb Premium

The layout was dismantled a few weeks ago and has been languishing around the garage and leaning on the sides of the OO gauge layout, frequently needing to be moved so that I could access things in the cupboards and drawers behind the baseboards when I was working on other bits and bobs.

 

After several ideas that I left floating in my head I finally arrived at an idea that I could use as the base for a trolley on which the layout could be stored and, if necessary, moved elsewhere in the house should the need arise.

 

301219_1.jpg.eae6fbb58a2cbf43d5517b2d919dc254.jpg

 

You'll have to take my word for the fact that there is now so much extra usable space compared with what there was when the boards were leaning against the OO layout.

 

The ultimate plan which requires a bit of cupboard and drawer emptying so that I can move stuff not currently in drawers and cupboards into the spaces thus created is for the trolley to normally reside at the far end of the garage, partly under the OO layout, to the right of the chair.

 

301219_2.jpg.f35c23c857a0388e20c22b8e6eea1286.jpg

 

I'm currently working on some stuff for the club for which I need the bench. I shall re-erect the O gauge layout once that's done with the intent of doing some ballasting.

 

All the best to all readers for 2020.

 

 

  • Like 7
  • Craftsmanship/clever 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...