Government To Scrap Rail Franchises

[Irishrailwaymodeller]

On 14/10/2019 at 20:24, EdChap said:

I guess what is needed is some form of Railway body that could take a strategic look at the railways and have the authority to make things happen. I just can't think of a suitable name though.

 

 

What about calling it "British Railways"?

[AMJ]

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.  

 

The overall management need to analyse what do we want to do? Then look at how can we do it?  If they keep it simple then all should be ok.

 

The costs for Notwork Rail should be divided equally based upon the % of train miles you use rather than saying to say an operator you run over bridge X which costs us £Y each year therefore we will charge you £Y+Z

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, AMJ said:

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.  

 

The overall management need to analyse what do we want to do? Then look at how can we do it?  If they keep it simple then all should be ok.

 

The costs for Notwork Rail should be divided equally based upon the % of train miles you use rather than saying to say an operator you run over bridge X which costs us £Y each year therefore we will charge you £Y+Z

Well that should sound the death toll for freight by rail.

[Covkid]

5 hours ago, AMJ said:

The overall management need to analyse what do we want to do? Then look at how can we do it?  If they keep it simple then all should be ok.

 

The costs for Network Rail should be divided equally based upon the % of train miles you use rather than saying to say an operator you run over bridge X which costs us £Y each year therefore we will charge you £Y+Z

 

 

Perhaps the DfT should go and visit other railway administrations to find out how they do it ?

The Dutch, Chinese, Japanese, Germans, French and Italians all want to operate British trains through franchising, so perhaps they are making a much better fist of it than the DfT ?

 

[royaloak]

7 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Well that should sound the death toll for freight by rail.

Something I thing the Government/DaFT have been after for sometime, more room for passenger trains on the network and more revenue from the HGVs which are now hauling the freight, so its a win win for the Government/DaFT, at least in the short term.

[ess1uk]

On 14/10/2019 at 18:22, Pandora said:

The Queens speech today , Govt to scrap rail franchising system in 2020 and replace with a system based upon " performance and reliability",  I look forward to learning of the details.

More empty words

[melmerby]

On 14/10/2019 at 19:15, andyman7 said:

They've not really been franchises in the commercial sense for some years now -

IMHO They have never been Franchises. That's Government twaddle-speak. They are Concessions.

A franchise is where a brand is operated by a third party on behalf of the owner. e.g. Costas, many are franchises (i.e. not owned by Whitbread) but they are branded as Costas and sell products supplied by Costa

Trains operated by multiple companies do not have a common brand.

 

A concession is where you sell your product in somebody else's space. e.g make up counters in department stores operated by Rimmel etc.

Quite clearly the rail companies are selling their product (the train service) in somebody else's space (NR track & stations)

Obviously the owner (NR) can regulate/dictate exactly what is sold (service) by the concessionaire.

Edited November 7, 2019 by melmerby

[Mallard60022]

Any announcement by any politician at the moment is a load of [enter suitable expletive].

T. May.

[Mallard60022]

On a lighter note (not really I am afraid) recent feedback from frequent travellers on LNER are getting more and more negative on social media. Whether this is indicative  of what is actually happening I can not say, other than my recent experiences, apart from discomfort on Monty Mobiles, have all been fine except for one on Tuesday when I didn't even get to travel due to yet another poor soul ending their life near Grantham and my train being cancelled altogether. That was a very minor disappointment for me but caused major disruption yet again on the line.

I get the feeling that LNER are working beyond the capacity they can actually cope with, both stock and staff wise and at the same time having to deal with loads of negativity regarding the Montys  and the rest of the fleet, mainly regarding delays, cancellations, overcrowding, price of fares, failing seat booking systems, rubbish catering and lack of Staff!  Again, not really my experience, but then I only really travel for leisure, I have an old geezer's Card and I like trains even if they are late sometimes. Sadly, what I have noticed is that many of the Staff do seem to be getting rather frazzled and not looking very happy. Some, of course, are smiling through everything, despite frequent challenges and sometimes confrontational situations. 

I have been told by a few LNER Staff on the 'receiving end', that the 'group' (a mysterious management team somewhere in the Country) 'running things', are not having a great time in the success stakes and communication is not good! No idea if that is the case.

What is the future for railways in England? No idea. Scotland? It would appear that if they go further 'away' politically and maybe even leave the Union, then transport and maybe many other things up there, could be very much on the up.

Wales...……..I fear for Wales.

P

 

[4630]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

IMHO They have never been Franchises. That's Government twaddle-speak. They are Concessions.

A franchise is where a brand is operated by a third party on behalf of the owner. e.g. Costas, many are franchises (i.e. not owned by Whitbread) but they are branded as Costas and sell products supplied by Costa

 

 

Not to dilute the content of your post, which I largely agree with, minor correction in that Costa is now owned by Coca-Cola.  Whitbread sold them the business earlier this year.

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

On a lighter note (not really I am afraid) recent feedback from frequent travellers on LNER are getting more and more negative on social media. Whether this is indicative  of what is actually happening I can not say, other than my recent experiences, apart from discomfort on Monty Mobiles, have all been fine except for one on Tuesday when I didn't even get to travel due to yet another poor soul ending their life near Grantham and my train being cancelled altogether. That was a very minor disappointment for me but caused major disruption yet again on the line.

I get the feeling that LNER are working beyond the capacity they can actually cope with, both stock and staff wise and at the same time having to deal with loads of negativity regarding the Montys  and the rest of the fleet, mainly regarding delays, cancellations, overcrowding, price of fares, failing seat booking systems, rubbish catering and lack of Staff!  Again, not really my experience, but then I only really travel for leisure, I have an old geezer's Card and I like trains even if they are late sometimes. Sadly, what I have noticed is that many of the Staff do seem to be getting rather frazzled and not looking very happy. Some, of course, are smiling through everything, despite frequent challenges and sometimes confrontational situations. 

I have been told by a few LNER Staff on the 'receiving end', that the 'group' (a mysterious management team somewhere in the Country) 'running things', are not having a great time in the success stakes and communication is not good! No idea if that is the case.

What is the future for railways in England? No idea. Scotland? It would appear that if they go further 'away' politically and maybe even leave the Union, then transport and maybe many other things up there, could be very much on the up.

Wales...……..I fear for Wales.

P

 

I can only speak as I find and my recent trip on LNER from KX to York produced the following conclusions -

Disorganisation of platform/train boarding information at KX (which could just as readily have been down to NR)

Electronic reservation system was good when it eventually worked (some time after passengers had boarded and sat in seemingly unreserved seats when then became reserved, oops) 

Excellent on-train staff - helpful and informative and ticket check carried out scrupulously, good and clear on-train announcements.

Tea not bad (but GWR"s is better in my view.

Atrocious riding of the HST which I travelled on - definitely well over mileage for some serious attention to its running gear (other coaches might have been different of course).

Punctuality 100% satisfactory.

 

The fact that I returned by Cross Country is no reflection on LNER - it was just more convenient for me and nice to avoid London (even if it meant the eardrum assault of a Voyager).

[The Johnster]

17 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Any announcement by any politician at the moment is a load of [enter suitable expletive].

T. May.

What do you mean, ‘at the moment’?

[Ian Hargrave]

17 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Any announcement by any politician at the moment is a load of [enter suitable expletive].

T. May.

 
Ordure de chevaux ou peutetre de canard ?  Can only really speak from experience with XC and yes after being flogged like over burdened donkeys from one end of the UK to the other for the last 17 years the Voyagers are showing the strain of age.Unsurprising. What cometh hereafter one wonders ?

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

 

The fact that I returned by Cross Country is no reflection on LNER - it was just more convenient for me and nice to avoid London (even if it meant the eardrum assault of a Voyager).

 

And the rock solid seating!

[The Stationmaster]

5 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
Ordure de chevaux ou peutetre de canard ?  Can only really speak from experience with XC and yes after being flogged like over burdened donkeys from one end of the UK to the other for the last 17 years the Voyagers are showing the strain of age.Unsurprising. What cometh hereafter one wonders ?

More IETs no doubt - along with a wonderful headline about  the wonderful advantages of more trains running on electricity instead of spewing diesel fumes everywhere (not that they will mention what percentage of the journey they'll have to run on diesel power, including over 3rd rail electrified lines in the south of England).

[Ian Hargrave]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

More IETs no doubt - along with a wonderful headline about  the wonderful advantages of more trains running on electricity instead of spewing diesel fumes everywhere (not that they will mention what percentage of the journey they'll have to run on diesel power, including over 3rd rail electrified lines in the south of England).

 
When the “franchise “ comes up for grabs shortly,will it repeat the current conglomeration of routes to include as it now does the south and south east  or will it split ? 

[The Stationmaster]

14 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
When the “franchise “ comes up for grabs shortly,will it repeat the current conglomeration of routes to include as it now does the south and south east  or will it split ? 

Interesting question but as it is basically built around interconnection at New Street between the principal axes I can't see much sense in splitting it.  I don't know much about the south west leg having very rarely used used it but the south (in particular)/south east sectio  also seems very much part of what happens at Birmingham and north thereof  although also with plenty of through travel between north of there and south of there. 

 

There are clearly certain very busy sections within the overall length of the longer north east to south route and it's been interesting to see this year what has struck me as growing number of people using the route to get to/from Southampton to access cruise ships.  Not that I particularly noticed any of them on my recent return trip from York but what was noticeable was the percentage of passengers who travelled through from Sheffield and north thereof as far as Oxford or further south.  So to me it still makes sense as a through route and as one where there are developing leisure travel market opportunities.   Whether DafT will see it that way is of course a rather different thing.

[Dunsignalling]

23 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
Ordure de chevaux ou peutetre de canard ?  Can only really speak from experience with XC and yes after being flogged like over burdened donkeys from one end of the UK to the other for the last 17 years the Voyagers are showing the strain of age.Unsurprising. What cometh hereafter one wonders ?

Bi-mode IETs are the obvious replacements but I don't particularly care what comes next, just so long as they provide an adequate amount of accommodation.

 

No more of the bloody silly little four-car sets that make travelling on far too many XC services a misery.  

 

John

[Ian Hargrave]

54 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Bi-mode IETs are the obvious replacements but I don't particularly care what comes next, just so long as they provide an adequate amount of accommodation.

 

No more of the bloody silly little four-car sets that make travelling on far too many XC services a misery.  

 

John

 
And the 221’s ( 5 car ) get just as overcrowded on the Plymouth-Edinburgh via Leeds route.The only times when they are less crowded are when a combination of 5&4 turns up on certain services.That provides a headache for the XC train crew as you can imagine as one unit goes only part of the distance.But I still wonder if the franchise will continue in its present form.New Street is still a nightmare despite its recent rebranding as John Lewis International.....job half done and confusing for passengers.

[woodenhead]

17 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
When the “franchise “ comes up for grabs shortly,will it repeat the current conglomeration of routes to include as it now does the south and south east  or will it split ? 

 

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Interesting question but as it is basically built around interconnection at New Street between the principal axes I can't see much sense in splitting it.  I don't know much about the south west leg having very rarely used used it but the south (in particular)/south east sectio  also seems very much part of what happens at Birmingham and north thereof  although also with plenty of through travel between north of there and south of there. 

 

There are clearly certain very busy sections within the overall length of the longer north east to south route and it's been interesting to see this year what has struck me as growing number of people using the route to get to/from Southampton to access cruise ships.  Not that I particularly noticed any of them on my recent return trip from York but what was noticeable was the percentage of passengers who travelled through from Sheffield and north thereof as far as Oxford or further south.  So to me it still makes sense as a through route and as one where there are developing leisure travel market opportunities.   Whether DafT will see it that way is of course a rather different thing.

 

I'd have handed over the Nottingham - Cardiff services to East Midlands (or whatever it is currently called) - it's an East-West axis route rather than the typical NE/SW NW/SE axis, it also has to use non-standard stock in the form of 170s.  I wonder how many actually make the whole trip or again is it really a Nottingham-Birmingham-Cardiff service with the focus being Birmingham for passengers.  In that case, split it with East Midlands to Birmingham and Transport for Wales to Cardiff.

 

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Bi-mode IETs are the obvious replacements but I don't particularly care what comes next, just so long as they provide an adequate amount of accommodation.

 

No more of the bloody silly little four-car sets that make travelling on far too many XC services a misery.  

 

John

 

IET is the most obvious unless the Anglia Stadlers prove to be an alternative with their big diesel generators.  Whether Stadlers with generators would work on a longer distance train I don't know, all the Anglia longer distance units are pure electric.  And there is less impetus now to wire up much more of the Cross Country routes that are not already earmarked for OHLE - so IET looks like the best option as is now proving itself with GWR, LNER and Trans Pennine (the closest match to a Cross Country type operation).

[Ian Hargrave]

XC routes are the longest in terms of time and distance in the UK. I think there is an unspoken presumption ( wish ) on the part of TOC’s that passengers in the main occupy space for only parts of each train journey carrying with them nothing other than a laptop and a small pyjama container/ rucksack.Nutritional needs are met by trundling the insufferable junk laden trolley which effectively throttles freedom of movement whilst supplying health hazardous fodder.Why must this be the case for hours of cramped confinement in an expanded cigar tube ? 

 
Thus my shopping list for the new franchise.....if it is to remain roughly the same configuration in terms of distance covered.....is for newly designed and constructed units with ease of access of entry and exit from and onto the platform.Why do I make an issue of this ? Well actually from one unpleasant experience of my wife slipping whilst  boarding a crowded 221 and suffering a blow to her shin which took weeks to heal.....the gap should be a safety  concern if it isn’t already and I have heard of other instances of this happening.

 
Second in my list is a plea for adequate,accessible secure luggage space for those bold enough to go the distance.

 

Third is a properly stocked and served meal and light refreshment service and the banishment of the trolley .Remember that ?

 

Finally I would like a comfortable ride with upholstered seating designed by a furniture specialist and not by an ergonomic fairy who dreams of fire hazards.

 

Well that’s it from me ,Peppa the Flying Pig.....who must dream on...in folorn hope 

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:

XC routes are the longest in terms of time and distance in the UK. I think there is an unspoken presumption ( wish ) on the part of TOC’s that passengers in the main occupy space for only parts of each train journey carrying with them nothing other than a laptop and a small pyjama container/ rucksack.Nutritional needs are met by trundling the insufferable junk laden trolley which effectively throttles freedom of movement whilst supplying health hazardous fodder.Why must this be the case for hours of cramped confinement in an expanded cigar tube ? 

 
Thus my shopping list for the new franchise.....if it is to remain roughly the same configuration in terms of distance covered.....is for newly designed and constructed units with ease of access of entry and exit from and onto the platform.Why do I make an issue of this ? Well actually from one unpleasant experience of my wife slipping whilst  boarding a crowded 221 and suffering a blow to her shin which took weeks to heal.....the gap should be a safety  concern if it isn’t already and I have heard of other instances of this happening.

 
Second in my list is a plea for adequate,accessible secure luggage space for those bold enough to go the distance.

 

Third is a properly stocked and served meal and light refreshment service and the banishment of the trolley .Remember that ?

 

Finally I would like a comfortable ride with upholstered seating designed by a furniture specialist and not by an ergonomic fairy who dreams of fire hazards.

 

Well that’s it from me ,Peppa the Flying Pig.....who must dream on...in folorn hope 

Peak or Duff on Mk1s was the answer to X Country, long distance in reasonable comfort and with a decent Buffet car.  Equiv of that could be Class 68 + referb Mk4s. Before I am sent to the padded room, I don't give a #### and the type of Units used on X Country long distance are and always have been ###te. 

Good evening.

A N Ar$£

Edited November 9, 2019 by Mallard60022
To insert more expletives.

[The Stationmaster]

20 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

XC routes are the longest in terms of time and distance in the UK. I think there is an unspoken presumption ( wish ) on the part of TOC’s that passengers in the main occupy space for only parts of each train journey carrying with them nothing other than a laptop and a small pyjama container/ rucksack.Nutritional needs are met by trundling the insufferable junk laden trolley which effectively throttles freedom of movement whilst supplying health hazardous fodder.Why must this be the case for hours of cramped confinement in an expanded cigar tube ? 

 
Thus my shopping list for the new franchise.....if it is to remain roughly the same configuration in terms of distance covered.....is for newly designed and constructed units with ease of access of entry and exit from and onto the platform.Why do I make an issue of this ? Well actually from one unpleasant experience of my wife slipping whilst  boarding a crowded 221 and suffering a blow to her shin which took weeks to heal.....the gap should be a safety  concern if it isn’t already and I have heard of other instances of this happening.

 
Second in my list is a plea for adequate,accessible secure luggage space for those bold enough to go the distance.

 

Third is a properly stocked and served meal and light refreshment service and the banishment of the trolley .Remember that ?

 

Finally I would like a comfortable ride with upholstered seating designed by a furniture specialist and not by an ergonomic fairy who dreams of fire hazards.

 

Well that’s it from me ,Peppa the Flying Pig.....who must dream on...in folorn hope 

Regrettably it will be forlorn hope Ian as long as IETs rule - and I don't see that changing very much by the time Voyager renewal enters the frame.  Their replacements will inevitably have to be bi-mode for 'political reasons' and at the moment the only long distance bi-mode in town is the IET.  

 

But maybe some details of it could be changed although even if they get softer seat cushions you can place good money on betting seats it will be crammed in to the maximum so that somebody can tell us how clever they are by providing XXXX extra seats on the route.  The point about secure luggage space is a telling one on XC routes where the operator actually warns passengers to be on the lookout for luggage thieves but luggage space detracts from seats on which to place bums so it's always going to be a trade off.   In fact I reckon Reading - York could be a good route for an open access operator to get in on - carefully avoiding New Street by calling at Solihull and Burton instead so grabbing a journey time advantage as well.

[Mallard60022]

15 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Regrettably it will be forlorn hope Ian as long as IETs rule - and I don't see that changing very much by the time Voyager renewal enters the frame.  Their replacements will inevitably have to be bi-mode for 'political reasons' and at the moment the only long distance bi-mode in town is the IET.  

 

But maybe some details of it could be changed although even if they get softer seat cushions you can place good money on betting seats it will be crammed in to the maximum so that somebody can tell us how clever they are by providing XXXX extra seats on the route.  The point about secure luggage space is a telling one on XC routes where the operator actually warns passengers to be on the lookout for luggage thieves but luggage space detracts from seats on which to place bums so it's always going to be a trade off.   In fact I reckon Reading - York could be a good route for an open access operator to get in on - carefully avoiding New Street by calling at Solihull and Burton instead so grabbing a journey time advantage as well.

If Ryan A(I)rse take on X Country then there will be no seats and people in Standard will have to book to be able to perch on their own luggage or sit on the floor. 

 

 

 

[Ian Hargrave]

12 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

If Ryan A(I)rse take on X Country then there will be no seats and people in Standard will have to book to be able to perch on their own luggage or sit on the floor. 

 

 

 

 
No need to wait for Dublin Taxis.Already the case on XC ,particularly at the beginning and end of uni terms..

Don’t we abuse our student cohort royally.First we saddle  them with huge loans then we abuse them like cattle on our trains .Mike’s point about open access is an interesting and valid one. We are New Street obsessed.All rails lead to Birmingham which is surely traffic saturated.

 

Could something perhaps be done to increase utilisation of the North to West route via Shrewsbury,for instance ?  There are currently no through services to Liverpool from South Wales and the West and South of England and current services to Manchester on that route ,although regular,are inadequate in terms of current standards of speed and comfort ?  TFW have a new paint job but more then that.....a lot more than that.....is sorely necessary.